An old scout's tale... (jump36!)

[Maccat]

A grizzled veteran Scout XBoat pilot in a bar...
"I was there back in the beginning, I tell ya. Kuma As. 'Twas a old Solomani Scout Base. A researcher in R&D, combined with the Scout Fleet Ops guys, came up with this wild idea. 8000 ships, scouts, all jumping at once, refined fuel, *from the surface* of that barren moonlet. They assured us the ships wouldn't get destroyed from the misjumps. Most had no problem at all, just jumped to Sylea and back. 'Twas those 1300 others that misjumped, all I can figure is we tore a hole in the space-time continuum. Weirdest thing, I tell ya. We had ships returning for the next month and a half. Well, reentering N-space I mean. We had ships made jump 36, in *a week*. We had ships arrive in Sylea 6 weeks later. Their ship may not have blown, but something happens to a man after 6 weeks in jump space: I seen it. You guys think the Navy runs the Imperium, that us X-Boaters just shuffle around at a measley Jump 4, outpaced by the Navy's Jump-6 couriers. You don't know the real story, the *whole* story. Why do you think the MinTrade BuStandards OfCalender Compliance (the OCC) was established? But then you've never been hit up with an Imperial Travel Requisition, likely, like one of these (shows one). Standard issue to XBoat Pilots. Let's just say, the Imperium goverment is verrry touchy about people asking our xboat pilots what the date is when they arrive back in N-Space. Wouldn't do at all to have them jumping in from 36 parsecs out in a week. (Laughs) and people think an XBoat can misjump. You hear the latest from Capital yet? <smiles> Hear a TAS feed just came in. You notice his XBoat patch has a 13/00 on it.

<so 7624 scout ships purified fuel jumping within 10d, misjump 10+ (17%) no destruction chance. 1296 misjump, 216 weekly rearrive in NSpace for 6 weeks, from 1-36 parsecs and in 1-6 directions. you get an outgoing J36 in a week in each of the six directions (and an outgoing J35, 34, etc). Maybe the Xboats, scout/couriers and xboat tenders are really serving as a recieving/returning element of this. Maybe this is what XBoat Waystations do. Maybe the Imperium has an outgoing/nodal J1-36 capability for data/mail/news/orders transmissions. Fundamental communications exceeding transport, at least outgoing (i could see stations transmit/recieve for this for 2-way commo, but not many it's pretty expensive). Assuming 29.43MCr s/c's: 224,374.32MCr as you only "lose" 1296 heading out on the misjumps each "transmission", 1296x=38,141.28MCr, 'bout the price of a cruiser.>

!!! jump 36, better than grandfather !!!

I like the idea of XBoat pilots reentering NSpace, wondering where, *and when* they are.

 

[Maccat]

J36!

wow nary a whisper. J36 in a week, emanating form say Sylea. Puts the Imperial Calender Compliance in a different light, no?

 

[Easterner9504]

Mis-Jump

I fail to see the math. But I'm bad at math so bear with me.

You calculate 1 J-36 each week in every direction (6) but probability is a macro number. You could Jump 100,000 ships and be frustrated when the one point you want is missed. Then the next week 10 straight go there. Awaiting a 1:36 chance ties up too many ships for too long a period and requires tremendous resources to recover the stupendous numbers of ships dropping into interstellar space. There's a word for playing probabilities of this nature: gambling. I can't imagine anything short of a Borg invasion requiring such resource wasting efforts to speed the mail.

Worse 8000 ships jumping simultaneously from a tiny moon. Laugh when all 8000 arrive at once with the moonlit piggybacked along for the trip.

However if I'm missing something in your math, I'll require a clearer explanation.

However in another post on Grandpa and Jump I meant to point out there is evidence he had a drive different and faster than the J system. A device at Memory Alpha shows a space-normal trip that indicated Gramps could travel in and make a record of normal space and move over a tremendous volume of space or they found a Planetarium-style Projector film of the galaxy.

 

[BlackBat242]

wow nary a whisper. J36 in a week, emanating form say Sylea.

As Easterner9504 said... not practical, and very wasteful. Interesting in a "barroom trivia" sort of way, but no other.

Puts the Imperial Calender Compliance in a different light, no?

My reaction is the same as it was when you first posted it... "WTF is an ICC... or Imperial Travel Requisition, or any other of the stuff the senile scout is babbling? Means nothing to me, and since the whole concept is pretty meaningless to me, I'll spare Maccat the embarrassment of my saying this publicly".

Except you insisted, so you got my opinion.

 

[Whipsnade]

Maccat,

Like the others, I didn't quite grok your original post either so I didn't bother to respond. Now, since you've asked us again for our opinions, I'll take the time.

There seems to be many IMTU assumptions with your idea. Would you care to explain a few of them further?

- AFAIK and across all the versions, misjumps could either be spatial, temporal, a spatial/temporal mix, or catastrophic. Also, AFAIK, the catastrophic variety are by far the majority. Most of the 8000 x-boats used in your idea would simply be destroyed leaving very few would make the 36 parsec "hop".

- I'm also confused about the various time issues your Old Scout refers to. While I can see a misjump lasting more than the standard 168 hours, I don't think that the time intervals increase or decrease in a linear manner or in any manner that can be predicted statistically or otherwise. You also seem to suggest that some x-boats arrive from the future, at least that's what I think you're hinting at with the following passage: "You notice his XBoat patch has a 13/00 on it." What "13/00" means I have no idea.

- Finally, while I in no way view the Imperium as benevolent or paternalistic, I have real problem with the idea that they'd be pissing away the lives of up to 8000 IISS employees every 24 hours or so just for the rather dubious prospect that an x-boat might travel between Sylea and some other system 36 parsecs away. YM obviously Vs.

Hope you'll explain the idea to us further. It's rather intriguing in a ghoulish sort of way.


Regards,
Bill

 

[rancke]

- AFAIK and across all the versions, misjumps could either be spatial, temporal, a spatial/temporal mix, or catastrophic. Also, AFAIK, the catastrophic variety are by far the majority. Most of the 8000 x-boats used in your idea would simply be destroyed leaving very few would make the 36 parsec "hop".

I think that MT toned the destructiveness down considerably. IIRC, you get more graduated results: unscathed, minor damage, major damage, destroyed. Your point still stands, though. Even relatively few total losses (say, 10%), would make the system extremely costly.

- I'm also confused about the various time issues your Old Scout refers to. While I can see a misjump lasting more than the standard 168 hours, I don't think that the time intervals increase or decrease in a linear manner or in any manner that can be predicted statistically or otherwise.

I believe that ordinary jumps are distributed along a bell curve (I've used 140+8D6 hours for many years and have some interesting calculations based on that assumption; when I noticed that T20 used 147+6D6 hours, I decide that the "truth" is somewhere in between the two ). Spatial misjumps would be spaced (um, timed) likewise. Temporal and spatial/temporal misjumps are (obviously) not. Maybe there's a pattern, but the sum of all such misjumps ever recorded in Charted Space is too small a sample to allow anyone to discern it.


Hans

 

[Maccat]

The ICC was mentioned in T4 Melieu 0, the Imperial Calender Compliance, this being one of few Imperial organizations with rights to visit (scout/spy in essence) Imperial worlds. The stuff on the 13/00 is a snipe at the Bk2 financing is 12 (4 week) months, while 52 weeks a year is 13 months. Also 13 being um, (like a misjump) unlucky?
I don't imagine this being done on a regular basis by any means, and yes it's an attempt to "gamble" getting some J36 successes through statistics (not a 'macro' number, even chance each try some day with enough tries it'll happen! so maybe launch 16000 of them lol). Using Bk 2 misjumps, scout vessels refined fuel within 100D (oops not on the surface after all i guess) get (2D) 5-15, no 16+ destroyed possibility (damage? sure ok! need those tenders after all!). The misjumps result in distance (6D6), direction (D6), and time (D6weeks)variables (rolls). So it's possible to jump 36 in a week. Also possible to jump 1 in 6 weeks. Hence the time concern, after something like this you'd be having ships flickering in from their misjumps for the next 6 weeks all over the place. After something like this (or *any* misjump) you come out of jump (hopefully!) asking: A) *where* am I? B) *when* am I?
Was really just a (silly) exercise in the statistics, what number needed to get a shot at it. Personally i like the idea of something like that going on at the initial formation of the Sylean Imperium (IGS scout delivers TAS news: Third Imperium announced! holiday year declared!), explains great focus at first on scouting and high scout activity, adds some intrigue and a great secret, is a way to get around the whole S08 Library (A-M) The Stars! essay:
... Another central fact of interstellar travel is that no method of information
transfer faster than jump drive transmission has been discovered. Ships can carry messages, but radio still lags at mere light speed. Communication is always restricted to the speed of interstellar transportation...
So maybe instead of the scouts having J4 Xboats and J2 couriers, navy J6 couriers, maybe one could have a set up of J36 seperated "waystations" regularly launching out ~8k ships a comm transmission. So either a one-off one-time single transmit, or one could (in theory) do this regularly with another ~8k at some point as two-way transmission. This would lead to a very different Imperium I would think.
Page one of scout reentry procedures, IGS manual nnn-nn: "Upon reentering normal space after a jump, location shall be determined by the ship's navigator. Ship's chronometer shall be synchronized with any error reported using IS Form nn with the local Imperial Calender Compliance representative. If a misjump has occured..."

 

[BlackBat242]

OK, I (and many others) don't have any T4 stuff, so you are setting central points in a viewpoint many cannot relate to.

Then you throw in a convoluted inside joke without explanation.

Written in a densely-packed, rambling, stream-of-consciousness-style writing that is innately hard to follow.


And follow by wondering why no one responded.


The clearer and simpler you make your initial post*, the more likely you are to get constructive responses. Detail and complexity can be explored in later posts.


*the first paragraph in your initial post would have been easier to follow if broken into 4 or so paragraphs.

 

[Merxiless]

I get what you are saying.

I just don't buy it that the scouts are this suicidal, when fast ships will do, with a lot less chance of loss.

The need for secret messages going J 36, means 8000 ships are carrying it.

Yeah the spies from the other side get inside and steal the messages acting like they "Misjumped", take the time to cross to their masters, and the whole system falls apart as you can't track who you can trust with information justifying this kind of cost.

easier to just say...

No jump. Hyperdrive, and play GURPS Space. Because that's what this is.