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alternate fall of man

sid6.7

SOC-13
i'm trying to come up with something other than the typical
fall associated with with traveller universe or a typical universe
such as:

vampire virus
a human plague
a galactic civil war


i've come up with 2 idea but i need help in fleshing them out
thats "plausable".....

1. a bioagent released by someone into gas giants or a planets
hydrosphere that contaminates all fuel sources and defeats
most refining so therefore all ships mis-jump now. but at some
point is fixed?

or

2. a device with a galactic reach? that could cause all
ships to mis-jump while turned on that at some point
fails or is turned off?


or

3. something else?



I.E who, what, how, where and why....


i'll give due credit with any help i recieve as i always do
for the soul universe that i am creating.

thanks
wally
 
1. The (bio)agent would eventually fall to the center of the Gas Giants and "uncontaminate" the outer atmosphere used for skimming. BUT, it would still pop up occasionally...

2. The Empress Wave? Run a wave front, moving at J1 speed through hyperspace. Any ship that hits the wave front automatically mis-jumps. The front is 10 parsecs or so thick so just about every merchant would be affected and a lot of the military. Eddies from the wave front would be around for a long time (1000 years?) making star travel unpredictable and only after they die down sufficiently could regular interstellar travel occur.
 
OK, my muse just whispered this to me so it's totally unrefined...

...though refining further as I type, and the more I type the more I like so my sig below definitely applies, feel free to use or borrow the idea for you own use with credit but you may not claim it as your own, either as is, expanded upon, or altered...

Scene: A top secret research station somewhere in the Imperium...

The experimental Reflex Jump Drive had shown great promise in hundreds of simulations and the first prototype was ready for an actual field test. If successful it would revolutionize jump space travel by opening up the higher realms only accessed via misjumps before now. With a huge savings in fuel requirements and the ability to predictably travel up to 36 parsecs in a single jump this could be the biggest breakthrough ever in the field of jump space travel. The clock counts down...

...a blinding flash and the test ship 100d from the planet disappears. Cheers go up for the apparently successful jump. Instruments at the research station record an anomalous energy spike seconds later, just before the planet disappears like the ship. Remote observation ships in far orbit record a similar spike, scramble to jump clear but also wink out before they can power up their jump drives...

About 7 years later the primitive natives of a nearby world wake up to find that one of their constellations is missing a prominent star. By then of course the Imperium, such as it is now, is already aware of the missing star system, though it is deeply covered up, and is still experiencing the effects of that day. It, whatever it was, spread swiftly at about 1 parsec per week and is continuing to expand. The effect, dubbed thick jump space has resulted in a drastic reduction in the ability of ships to jump. Range of jumps has been reduced 6 fold such that only a J6 drive can travel a full parsec, and the time spent in jumpspace was also affected by a like 6 fold increase, so all jumps now last 6 weeks.

The immediate effects were devastating in the short term. Initially uncounted ships disappeared, presumably jumping short of their destinations by the 6 fold range or being lost entirely when they ran out of power to maintain jump because of the 6 fold extended time in jump space.

The long term effects were catastrophic. Warnings were impossible to send as the effect spread as fast as ships not already caught up in it. Word only came months or years later, in most cases to worlds already dead for lack of supplies from trade ships.

With only a few J6 ships able to cross interstellar space in reasonable time, and that without much space for cargo, interstellar trade ground to a halt. Without trade many worlds died, many many more became independent. The dream of empires of stars died. A few ships still cross the new gulfs between even close systems but they are strictly military and vital supply ships linking small clusters of no more than a few systems. Even intersystem travel is now faster in real space than jump space.

After decades the effect is wearing off slowly, beginning where it started and expanding. In time it is believed jump space will return to normal and dreams of empire are already growing in the minds of some...

...the future beckons.


Spoiler:

Let's see, where to begin...

The research station, the observation ships, the whole solar system in fact, popped into a pocket universe. This effect was limited to about 1 parsec. A great place for a grand adventure, if you can find your way in, and out again.

The original experimental Reflex Jump Drive ship and crew survived. The experiment was a resounding success. They celebrated downloaded the data to the prearranged and waiting observation ship, and then according to plan Reflex Jumped back to the research station. Of course they ran into the same thick jump space the Reflex Jump Drive created. Finding the ship is possible, as is the backup data ship. Both "lost" due to the thick jump space problems. And of course if the Reflex Drive is engaged again, it'll all happen again. Can the problem be fixed? Who knows?

The effect is wearing off at a rate of about 1 day less in jump space per year of time in real space. So in 7 years the time spent in jump space will be 5 weeks instead of 6. Likewise the range of jump is increasing at the same rate. So after the same 7 years a J5 will be able to travel a full parsec. Eventually it will all return to the old standard or 1 parsec per J and 1 week in jumpspace.


Anyway, there it is in a nutshell. And all that from two words (more the concept than literal) whispered by my muse, "thick space" and me typing as fast as I could to get the whole gestalt out before it faded :) Now it looks kind of familiar and I'm not sure if it's because the idea blossomed full into my mind or because I've seen it or similar somewhere before :( So if anyone recognizes it do let me know the source. If I copied it in any part or whole it is entirely innocently and I honestly don't recall ever seeing it before.

Sooooo, comments?
 
See, like Plankowner maybe I was getting the spark of the idea from the Empress Wave and sid6.7's idea #2

Certainly reading #2 was when the lightbulb went on and the Empress Wave was the first thing to pop into my head about a what or why (but I immediately rejected the EW idea, it's been done, I wasn't a huge fan, and the effect is unrelated).

:)
 
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All of the ideas so far involve a relativelt rapid fall, but as I think about it the idea of a slower process appeals to me. Maybe a decline and fall rather than just a fall. I guess that's a side effect of reading too much history.

A decline and fall of epic proportions, like Rome, could be caused from a combination of internal and external stresses.

- A heretofor undiscovered branch of Humaniti (for some reason scarier to me than some new super-aliens) that has reached a higher TL than the Imperium.
- At first no one knows that these are humans though because at first contact they relentlessly attack.
- Rarely they suffer defeat in battle but usually their superior technology prevails.
- At first they make no attempt to seek settlement, rather they destroy planets in their path.
- As their ferocity becomes apparent panic sets in whenever a rumor of their approach gets started.
- Discovering who they are will take time and after that trying to discover why they are bent on destruction will take more time (need to develop the why - any ideas? - religious? xenophobic? oddball genetic purity theories?)
- Panic spreads slowly but surely. Any ship landing on a planets under panic is in danger of being swamped by refugees. Worlds nearby will be swamped by the refugees from threatened systems and as they are threatened the crush to escape will be even worse.
- Maintaining order in threatened sectors will begin to take more and more resources away from the fighting front, hastening the enemy victory. As the Imperial government in Core slowly responds, problems begin to develop as systems are reluctant to allow the dispatch of their military forces to fight elsewhere and the military forces themselves begin suffering desertion as they feel they are being sent needlessly to their death when they should be 'guarding home' or helping their family escape to some supposedly 'safe' place.
- Imagine the panic in all of the surrounding sectors once one sector has been, as far as they know, scoured of sentient life? Real commerce would stop as every ship would have to become a refugee ship and even then there would never be anywhere near enough. Imagine trying to evacuate an entire planet in a Dunkirk-style collection of any vessel available. Even worse if the enemy has something like J10 and can suddenly appear in a system everyone thought was safe.

Eventually the enemies would either switch to subjugating the defeated Imperium (so the character of the new era would be a guerrilla war) or the Imperium would finally develop counter-technology and stop their advance. I like the second option better. The damage would be done - the dislocation would be severe enough that all of the tenuous links between worlds start unraveling. Every competitior on the Imperial fringes would surely take this opportunity to grab what they can. Every local ruler's fear that the enemy fleet might appear at any time would prevent him from ever going to any other system's aid unless he was a truly great leader and even then he better hope his competitors at home don't fan the fears of the populace for their own political gain.

Of course, the destruction behind the front line would not be complete, but lacking the ability to communicate with others, effectively cut off, everyone would assume the worse. Once the job of rebuilding and rediscovery begins, there will be many stories to discover.
 
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Hmm ... this has been explored. The Battletech universe and the invasion of the Clans in 3050.

During the fall of the Star League in 2750, General Alexandyr Kerensky led loyal forces of the Star League Defence force away from known space in a massive exodus. For three hundred years, the successor states of the Inner Sphere waged wars for control of the old Star League. In 3050, a force consisting of a technically superior enemy invaded the Inner Sphere. The states of the Inner Sphere could not compete and world after world fell to the invading forces. The invading Clans turned out to be the descendants of General Kerensky's forces.
 
Thick space

a couple questions,
Are shorter jumps possible? time wise I mean. Or do all jump take 6 times as long. What is the feul burn for this jump, 6x or normal, Eg for a J6 ship to jump 1 parsec does it take 60% of it's mass OR 10%

A suggestion, if you said simply all jumps now take you 1/2 lightyear per j number and last 6 weeks it might make it simpler to figure.
As an added bonus once the routes were established by J6 ships you could have tankers jump to 2 lightyears from each end and then J2 and J3 ships could make the crossing, although it would take 18 weeks rather than 6 in a J6 ship. The J3 ships offload thier excess back to the tankers, thus resupplying them to an extent.
 
Response

P.S. I am not trying to poke hole here, that is one of my biggest peeves, when someone criticizes without adding anything constructive.
 
A slower fall

How slow of a fall where you looking for, a generation, 2, more?
How about a plague? , Adult onset encephilitis. This plague causes humans to goes stupid at the onset of puberty. A small percent are immune, 2% {roll 12 on 2d6} This would lead to a slow but eventuall fall, and if there was a 10ish year delay between contracting the disease and onset quarintine would be unlikely. Plus the idea of a "stupid plague" has a certain attraction.
 
Are shorter jumps possible? time wise I mean. Or do all jump take 6 times as long. What is the feul burn for this jump, 6x or normal, Eg for a J6 ship to jump 1 parsec does it take 60% of it's mass OR 10%

My idea (certainly open to ytu alteration) was that is was a fixed 6 weeks for all jumps. Like the standard is a fixed 1 week for all jumps.

Fuel burn is based on J# so yep, a J6 would use 60% fuel (or whatever per rule set) to travel 1 parsec in 6 weeks. Of course you'll need more life support and power plant fuel as well.

A suggestion, if you said simply all jumps now take you 1/2 lightyear per j number and last 6 weeks it might make it simpler to figure.

Not a bad suggestion, it didn't hit me that it would work out to about that. But Traveller maps are in parsecs so maybe it's easier as is. Though language clarity would be something to look at if I clean it up.


As an added bonus once the routes were established by J6 ships you could have tankers jump to 2 lightyears from each end and then J2 and J3 ships could make the crossing, although it would take 18 weeks rather than 6 in a J6 ship. The J3 ships offload thier excess back to the tankers, thus resupplying them to an extent.

Yep, that even looks like a reasonable development for some small pocket empire without the tech to build high jump capable ships. I like the idea of months long voyages between two systems just a parsec apart :)

It'd be a different kind of game. Something like the King Richard with the players "adventuring" aboard would be more the norm.

P.S. I am not trying to poke hole here, that is one of my biggest peeves, when someone criticizes without adding anything constructive.

No worries at all spank, I consider it constructive feedback even without adding anything. Simply asking questions helps, and poking holes and picking nits can be very helpful. Thanks.
 
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A similar line on the failed/successful research

The Imperial Research has been working on a faster then light transmission for centuries.

The lastest was tested again and seemed to fail again. One of the scientist being more human than he likes is very frustrated and points the transmission device at the local sun/star and fires a burst. With a second a massive gravitation wave is registered passing through the system orginating from the star.

Afraid to tell anyone that he might be the one that caused it he says nothing.

Jump ahead a week.
The supply ships are late, several days late. The base commander decides to send a Jump ship to the next system for information. The jump ship explodes during initial Jump start up even though it is 130 dia from nearest planet/body.

1 week after the failed Jump.

The scientists have been doing research and discover that the Danger jump window of 100dia is no longer true. The data now suggests 1000 dia is needed. After several repeated data testing, the last J ship is sent to 1100 dia and attempts to jump, it is successful.

Upon arriving at the next system over it is discovered that the same issue of Jump danger window has taken place. Research is shared and expanded on.

After a month of research it determined that this happened from a central point orginating from the researchers star. It appears to be traveling at a speed of 1 light year a week. As the wave reaches each star it starts over with a renewed strenght (but still weaker than the initial burst) based on the stars class. It is almost like the stars are pinging each other.
Since this is travelling faster than ships can, it takes every system by surprise destroying/removing J ships when they jump. Very few Jump ships survive.
Scientist figure it will take 300 to 400 years before the pinging of gravitation waves start receeding and probably another 200 years before it returns to normal.
The hope is that when this wave reaches the core that it will not gain any strenght due to density of # of stars.


Less than 1% of the total number of J ships survive since noone had any warning. Interesting fact is that those races with major PSI understand and accpetance have 10% of their Jump ships survive due to the early warning that some PSI were able to give.

There is my take on a possible down fall of Man. The Jump drive network is a very sensitive part of the structure of the Traveller setting. Remove it and you remove the sharing of information, commerce and group development.


Dave Chase
 
For the "slow/altered Jump" scenario:

How about a ship with J1 engines... and 60% J fuel tankage. You would be able to increase the cargo capacity in your ship because your Jdrive is much smaller than that big J6 drive (of course, you would need more life-support for those 36 week, 1 parsec trips).

This would create a game much more like the early sailing days on earth... when it took 3+ months to cross the Atlantic, vs the 1 1/2 months of the mid-1800s (J1 normal)... or the 2 weeks of the early steam era (J3 normal), or 1 week of the fast liners of the 20th Century (J6 normal).


Kinda makes those low berths look more attractive, now doesn't it?

That fits in with a lot of Sci-Fi... now doesn't it?

Slow-freight for real!
 
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A star near to your Imperial homeworld goes supernova. Radiation sterilization of the Imperial homeworld and a number of its surrounding trading partners is inevitable within a few years. Trade panic, economic collapse and a mass exodus paralyse the core worlds, whilst those nearby have their economies overwhelmed by a sudden influx of refugees. Many nobles are lynched by penniless mobs as they ready their yachts. Maybe the Emperor himself is amongst them. The nobles of the core worlds are amongst the most influential executives of the megacorporations. Mass murder of the Megacorporations' chief executives creates widespread panic, infighting and jockeying for position. Whilst upper echelons of management squabble, their share prices fall...
Ok, I'm not an economist, but it's an idea - work on it...
 
Sounds similar to the Antares supernova "event" that was discussed a ways back... Definitely a cool idea - and one more rooted in Hard Science than a MacGuffin like the Virus or the Empress Wave (not that I have a problem with either, and the Virus is a bit more than an actual MacGuffin, but you get my drift here).
 
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Another idea,

What would happen if the Moties from Niven/Pournelle's Mote in God's Eye were to suddenly escape and start porpagating wildly across known space.

There's a scary idea with far-reaching implications and no good solution that I can think of.
 
All of my players have read that book series Major B. That was the one time even the non-violent types voted to just nuke the whole system if I brought them into their CT Universe.

But then, they have the same rules involving CUTE aliens too! { like Ewoks and the like}.
 
LosCon (Los Angeles Science Fiction Convention) ~1986 had, as one of their discussion panels, "The Danger of Cute Aliens".

The discussion was about both the danger to the field of Sci-Fi (marketing-driven stories, "dumbing-down of plotlines, etc) and to us (Human explorers & colonists) if we ever encounter such (deceiving appearances, etc.).

It was in that discussion that I learned George Lucas' original vision for the Ewoks was "vicious, drowned-rat-looking things", but 20th Century Fox's marketing people convinced him to change them to "cute & cuddly" for better merchandise-marketability.
 
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Wow. "Vicious, drowned-rat-looking things" would have changed my reaction to that episode a lot. Actually I think I would have liked it more, but they would have lost the effectiveness of the scene where the Ewok pokes his dead friend. Instead of "awwww" they would have got an "ewwww" - no sympathy when its a rat.

Well, how about that for an idea - small, ravenous rodents that breed at fantastic rates. Ships start popping out of jumpspace with dead (devoured) crews and ships sent to investigate are overrun when they open the airlock. Planetary food supplies are destroyed causing famine. The beasts hibernate when exposed to vacuum, allowing them to survive for up to a week, making the common method of sterilizing a ship ineffective.

Maybe that's not an empire-killer but it sure would cause disruption at the subsector or maybe even sector level.
 
Sounds like Tribbles. :)

Most civilization collapses in history (IIRC) have been down to external conquest, internal friction, revolution, indolence, and economic collapse.

I'm sure the seven deadly sins and the four horsemen will retain their grip on humanity for the forseeable future.

Any calamity will be little more than an opportunity for these guys to up and finish the job.
 
Except Tribbles are cute - and they don't eat people. But maybe IMTU they will...

I agree though. I like the more natural, explainable cause for the downfall rather than more hand-wave. An economic collapse like the great depression writ large is for me more frightening and compelling.
 
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