Aaaaliens in the Spinward Marches!

[ThunderChilde]

Just a question, what in bezu's name would the K'kree be doing all the way out in the marches. That is a suspenders snapper if I ever heard one.

Seriously, severly claustrophobic, sophonts that they are, they'd be on the order of 2-3 years away from from the 2000 worlds. All the interviening space filled with nasty carnovours, surrounded by carnovours, and snuggling up to the Aslan, the biggest predators of moving meat around.

Nope, just don't see it. Iit is true, I demand for the sake of reason a retconn getting the hell out of the Marches.

 

[DonM]

Ok, well if we take into account Behind the Claw and GURPS Traveller canon (and why not?)

We have minors:

Mewey of Mewey (Spinward Marches 0830)
Obeyery of Stave (Spinward Marches 0710)
Otarri of Faldor (Spinward Marches 1131)
Saurian of Sauris (Spinward Marches 1320)
Tashaki of Retinae (Spinward Marches 0416)
Tethmari of Gyomar (Spinward Marches 0108)
Ursty of Yurst (Spinward Marches 2309)
Viji of Zeta 2 (Spinward Marches 0919)

And humans:

Nexxies of Nexine (Spinward Marches 3030)

PERSONAL OPINION (In case anyone confuses this with canon)

There are plenty of things to like about GURPS Traveller. But not this. The Spinward Marches had plenty of detail without adding a mess of aliens that weren't there before. And please send the Pulver aliens back to SpaceMaster.

Behind the Claw, sorry. I really, really wanted to like that book.

 

[DonM]

Just a question, what in bezu's name would the K'kree be doing all the way out in the marches. That is a suspenders snapper if I ever heard one.

Seriously, severly claustrophobic, sophonts that they are, they'd be on the order of 2-3 years away from from the 2000 worlds. All the interviening space filled with nasty carnovours, surrounded by carnovours, and snuggling up to the Aslan, the biggest predators of moving meat around.

Nope, just don't see it. Iit is true, I demand for the sake of reason a retconn getting the hell out of the Marches.

Now I have to ask, what are you referring to?

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I can understand your personal oppinion, however Behind the Claw is there, and it details the Marches.

Now the real question is whether GURPS Traveller is all in an alternative universe, or not? Or to put it another way; should it be considered as Traveller canon, or not?

I ask because it's a hard one to answer. There is some really good stuff in the GURPS Traveller line, and I'd hate to have to disrigard it, just because BtC wasn't finished as well as it could (may be should) have been.

And please send the Pulver aliens back to SpaceMaster.

Don, you keep metioning these, would you post the Traveller reference for them please? I ask because I've never done SpaceMaster so have no idea what you are talking about, and can't find them searching. And the other thing about them is if they are in canon already why would we throw them out?

Regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

PERSONAL OPINION (In case anyone confuses this with canon)

There are plenty of things to like about GURPS Traveller. But not this. The Spinward Marches had plenty of detail without adding a mess of aliens that weren't there before.

I'm in two minds about that. On the one hand, even the eight species from the CT material was over the average (which is something around one minor non-human race per three subsectors), so adding seven more was definitely a bad idea (IMO). On the other hand, it's done, it doesn't actually contradict any other part of canon, and there is actual text about them (which is more than you can say for two of the 'Original Eight'). And random distribution does occasionally throw up really unlikely situations. So I don't think I'd advocate a wholesale rejection of the BtC species. Instead, I think I'd examine each of the descriptions and decide on their merits if they're worth keeping.

I'm in no such doubts about those three minor human races that BtC introduced. Wasting three of the limited number of unfilled slots available of three one-paragraph references is unacceptable. It's also against canon, since Darrians specifically states that when the Itzin Fleet arrived in the Marches in -1511, the Darrians were the only MHR in the Marches. So get rid of them!

I've even come up with retcons that keep most of the descriptions from BtC, just twisting it to eliminate the MHR status:

The Traltar of Traltha:

"The inhabitants of Traltha claims to be descendants of humans who were transplanted by the Ancients and that their world used to be covered by great oceans until they were blasted into space by a massive bolide that was targeted against the world by an Ancient strike force during the Final War. Although destroyed, the Ancient base had nevertheless managed to protect the resident humans, the majority of which survived the strike, and somehow scratched out a living in the outback.

The truth is less dramatic. The Traltar, as the locals call themselves, appear to be the descendants of a failed colonizing attempt, the records of which were lost in the breakdown of the colony. Apparently the colony's pumps broke down or the wells ran dry, and the survivors were forced to become desert nomads who moved from water source to water source. After contact with the Third Imperium in 373, they accepted offworld technological aid, and quit their wandering for a more sedentary existence. Most of their communities are located around wells, and subsist upon agriculture."

The Tondouli of Tondoul:

"Tondoul is home to a group of humans who claim to have been transplanted by the Ancients, a claim that is not accepted by Imperial scientists. The locals also claim that there was an Ancient base on what was at the time a moon, now a pretty dramatic ring structure.

The true origin of the Tondouli remains a mystery. When contacted by the Scouts in the 1st Century, the population subsisted in several underground communities powered by simple yet very reliable energy and life support machinery. The Scouts contacted the world in a timely fashion, arriving just as these machines were failing.

Tondoul does not have an Ancient site rating in its listing because there are no Ancient buildings or artifacts on it. The locals claim that this is because the Scouts stripped all of the artifacts out and replaced them with equipment of Imperial manufacture. This is true, but the Scouts maintain that the equipment they removed was of unknown, but fairly recent (roughly 12th Century PI) manufacture.

Unlike the Traltar, the Tondoulians have mixed heavily with Imperial immigrants and possess a culture that incorporates elements from both groups. "

The unnamed MHR that BtC put on 769-422 I haven't come up with anything about, but others have: http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/769-422_(world).


Hans

 

[DonM]

I can understand your personal oppinion, however Behind the Claw is there, and it details the Marches.

Now the real question is whether GURPS Traveller is all in an alternative universe, or not? Or to put it another way; should it be considered as Traveller canon, or not?

I ask because it's a hard one to answer. There is some really good stuff in the GURPS Traveller line, and I'd hate to have to disrigard it, just because BtC wasn't finished as well as it could (may be should) have been.

I don't want to disregard the line. I just ignore BtC. And before anyone asks, I know there have been several offers to fix it.

Don, you keep metioning these, would you post the Traveller reference for them please? I ask because I've never done SpaceMaster so have no idea what you are talking about, and can't find them searching. And the other thing about them is if they are in canon already why would we throw them out?

Let's see if I can find my list...

Clotho, Devi, Drak Ne'Vha, Evantha, Inheritors, Inyx, Lithkind, Sheol, Tezcat, and Valkyrie... I think that's the list of Pulver aliens. They all appeared in various SpaceMaster supplements, and then he put them in the GURPS Traveller books while he was editor there.

 

[DonM]

So I don't think I'd advocate a wholesale rejection of the BtC species.

Ok, so you and I disagree on at least one thing :devil:

 

[Jeffr0]

Clotho, Devi, Drak Ne'Vha, Evantha, Inheritors, Inyx, Lithkind, Sheol, Tezcat, and Valkyrie... I think that's the list of Pulver aliens. They all appeared in various SpaceMaster supplements, and then he put them in the GURPS Traveller books while he was editor there.

Oh no! I didn't realized they were already published in another line...!

You could make a pretty cool OTU using those aliens instead of the default Traveller alien races. Adding more than one to a given Traveller campaign of 6-8 sessions would overload it, I imagine... unless you use them merely as cantina scenery....

I kinda like the Zhodani/Clotho/Drakaran/Vargr intermixing that they did in AR:I. The rest of the aliens seemed less well integrated.

 

[DonM]

I kinda like the Zhodani/Clotho/Drakaran/Vargr intermixing that they did in AR:I. The rest of the aliens seemed less well integrated.

Note that I'm not proposing getting rid of the Addaxur; just that the Addaxur are NOT Clotho. The interaction you are referring to on the Clotho part is really just the canon Addaxur material.

 

[Jeffr0]

Just a question, what in bezu's name would the K'kree be doing all the way out in the marches. That is a suspenders snapper if I ever heard one.

No! There is some good Spinward Marches K'Kree adventures in Alien Module 2. It makes sense and can be added to a campaign only if a referee desires-- probably when droynes cast a K'kree coyn.

 

[Almuric]

I don't want to disregard the line. I just ignore BtC. And before anyone asks, I know there have been several offers to fix it.



Let's see if I can find my list...

Clotho, Devi, Drak Ne'Vha, Evantha, Inheritors, Inyx, Lithkind, Sheol, Tezcat, and Valkyrie... I think that's the list of Pulver aliens. They all appeared in various SpaceMaster supplements, and then he put them in the GURPS Traveller books while he was editor there.

It's an old thread, but since I stumbled on it while hunting information on Marches aliens, a factual correction:

(a) David Pulver (that's me, Almuric) did not place them in Traveller while an editor at SJ Games. I was hired at SJ Games as an editor many years later.

(b) The alien races were added because I was approached, specifically, by Loren Wiseman and Steve Jackson and ASKED by them to add them to the line. Loren carefully went over each of them and discussed how they should or should not fit in canon, and as Alien Races I was the first support book in the line, it was also vetted by Marc directly.

In other words, I was not abusing authority as line editor - I was approached as a writer, directly, by veterans of Traveller who had liked the races and felt they should be part of it.

 

[GypsyComet]

With the Clotho already removed from their equivalence to the Addaxur (MGT: Zhodani), I have no further issues with including the Clotho as their own beings. I don't mind the Inheritors, particularly, either. The Tezcat are one too many overtly feline race *in print* for my tastes when there is so much potential for alien otherness being left on the table. Most of the others are just sort of there.

Except the Valkyrie. That shtick was my least favorite part of the Well of Souls cycle, and does not sit well with me in Traveller.

 

[DonM]

Welcome, Almuric (David)! Let's see here...

As to the Addaxur, when Marc and Matthew convinced me to take the Zhodani book, Marc sent me the 'waterbear' picture as his original take on them. I really want to get back to the Addaxur, but any minute now someone will throw a squirrel at me.

As to the others, the clarification is useful, but also... I wish Loren had given me more details.

I will also confess to being an advocate for keeping the Drakarans.

While we have David Pulver's attention, though... Those minors mentioned in the Mongoose Solomani book... The Kwaz (Chuckies), Neozinga, Sciapods, Tadonga (Ding-Dongs), Xabulamanti, and Zarm. Any reveals?

 

[aramis]

@David: Welcome Back.
I really feel most of the SM subissions were a better fit there, but 'taint my call to make.

@Don:
Catch: :squirrel::badger:

 

[DonM]

I've spent my July 4th holiday reviewing other people's Traveller works.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I've spent my July 4th holiday reviewing other people's Traveller works.

Thanks for your hard work, Don!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.