Aaaaliens in the Spinward Marches!

[ditzie]

ATTN: Since it's been ten years since Ditzie's postings on the TML, and for the sake of weak stomachs in the Grognard Veterans camp, her post has been updated to reflect ten years' of "Growing up". Thank you.


Dear Uncle Hengabar,

How's things? Well it's really boooring working down here in Compliance. Nothing but bean counters telling me "no, Ditzie", "don't shoot my car, Ditzie", "take that live plasma grenade outside, Ditzie". They sound like Mom. And don't get me started with the ISO 900,000 documentation of working procedures!

ANY WAY, Sharik and I were running some numbers -- counting beans with Compliance -- and we could've SWORN that we saw oooodles of aliens in the Spinward Marches. Kid you not.

The Spinward Marches IS a real live truly COSMOPOLITAN sector, with maybe um HUNDREDS of aliens travelling around there.

We have a couple things that hint this. Like, we recall some images from JTAS, pretty pictures from that nice Mr. Keith, showing a busy starport with lots of funny-looking critters and placards written with half-a-dozen languages. And, there's also maybe the TTA; it's got aliens in it, and that's just what they could squeeze into their printing allotment for the adventure, and that's just for the Aramis subsector. Then there's the SMC that has real short paragraphs on a couple aliens nobody ever knew about.

I mean if it's like that then then there could be lots and lots of aliens out there in the Marches. There could be like ten for every subsector -- 160 aliens, or more, and ALL DIFFERENT!!

What do you think Unkie Hengie? Maybe you can can get my research grant for High Energy Vehicles and Weapons reinstated?


Your loving niece,

Ditzie

 

[ditzie]

Really though, there are hints of a cosmopolitan Marches, and no mention that "there are no more aliens here", or "any extra aliens have just not been discovered". They just ran out of time (one alien per quarter on the JTAS schedule for example).

Maybe there are supposed to be 70, 80, 100 aliens in the Marches. Any thoughts?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Admit it, you just want a wider variety of targets...

 

[Jame]

Mistress Ditzie,

Per my reply to the post submitted within the Lone Star, I would suggest about 10 to 15 total sapient species native to the Spinward Marches. This is my preference for a region the size of that sector, and indeed I would prefer 10 at a maximum. But this of course applies to my own Traveller universe, and is only my opinion.

Respectfully,

Jame

Weren't some of those minor races in other sectors, like the Githiaskio being from Corridor, or the ones that are servants of the K'Kree - the ones whose name I don't recall?

 

[FreeTrav]

This is a topic elsewhere that I am not actually at liberty to reveal details about (so please don't ask). I have my own opinion on the matter.

However, if you want more aliens IYTU, by all means, go ahead. If you send their writeups to Freelance Traveller, I'll be quite happy to post them.

 

[rancke]

Really though, there are hints of a cosmopolitan Marches, and no mention that "there are no more aliens here", or "any extra aliens have just not been discovered". They just ran out of time (one alien per quarter on the JTAS schedule for example).

Maybe there are supposed to be 70, 80, 100 aliens in the Marches. Any thoughts?

The average number of minor non-human races is roughly one per 3 subsectors (about 100 in the Imperium, about 400 in all of Charted Space). The Spinward Marches was way above the average even before Behind the Claw introduced 7 or 8 new ones.


Hans

 

[DonM]

I am speaking for myself here. I'm not representing Marc, FFE, or anyone else.

Hmm... guess I'm the conservative here.

I count four solid canon natives in the Marches (Droyne, Shriekers, Ebokin, Dandies), four undefined canon natives on other worlds (Tionale, Byret, Craw, 457-973), and one human minor (Darrians). What I don't count are those Pulver aliens from SpaceMaster.

And I like 8... 1 for every 2 subsectors, 4 defined, 4 ready for someone to define, even a major race in the lot for the Marches...

The question is: SHOULD there be more native minors in the Marches, and why?

 

[Whipsnade]

Really though, there are hints of a cosmopolitan Marches...

Really? Point us to some then.

Also, "cosmopolitan" does not necessarily equate "aliens"

... and no mention that "there are no more aliens here"...

There's no mention of shoe salesmen either. Your point being?

... or "any extra aliens have just not been discovered"...

The Imperium has been in the Marches for over one thousand years. I don't think there's much that hasn't been discovered and lost once, twice, or a hundred times.

While I have to accept that the Shriekers were overlooked during most of that period because GDW told me so, asking me to swallow the same wholly implausible B.S. just so you can cram another dozen or so poorly written, rubber suited, circus freaks into the Marches isn't going to happen.

They just ran out of time (one alien per quarter on the JTAS schedule for example).

They did run out of time, but you're conveniently forgetting that JTAS covered the entire Imperium and beyond. Many of the minor races presented in JTAS weren't from the Marches at all, so suggesting that GDW ran out of time to reveal all the minor races in the Marches is just another excuse and not an actual reason.

Maybe there are supposed to be 70, 80, 100 aliens in the Marches.

If there were supposed to be that many, we'd have been told already. Such numbers would be a fundamental part of the setting.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts? Sure.

The Ditzie schtick was tired on the TML over a decade ago and now it's just plain sad.


Bill

 

[aramis]

I am speaking for myself here. I'm not representing Marc, FFE, or anyone else.

Hmm... guess I'm the conservative here.

I count four solid canon natives in the Marches (Droyne, Shriekers, Ebokin, Dandies), four undefined canon natives on other worlds (Tionale, Byret, Craw, 457-973), and one human minor (Darrians). What I don't count are those Pulver aliens from SpaceMaster.

And I like 8... 1 for every 2 subsectors, 4 defined, 4 ready for someone to define, even a major race in the lot for the Marches...

The question is: SHOULD there be more native minors in the Marches, and why?

You missed a couple:

Majors present in the marches: Humaniti in three flavors (Zhodani, Vilani, generic imperial human), Vargr, Aslan, Droyne

Minors: Chirpers**, Eiboken, Dandies, Shriekers, Darrians*

Human Minors - Distinct: Swordworlders, Ardenese.

Transient minors known to be present: Virush, Newt

*or are they a human minor.

** Yeah, we know they are the same species as droyne... but definitely not the same culture.

 

[robject]

While I have to accept that the Shriekers were overlooked during most of that period because GDW told me so, asking me to swallow the same wholly implausible B.S. just so you can cram another dozen or so poorly written, rubber suited, circus freaks into the Marches isn't going to happen.

Maybe what you mean by this is

While I have to accept that the Shriekers were overlooked during most of that period because GDW told me so, asking me to swallow the same wholly implausible [scenario] just so you can [introduce] another dozen or so [insufficiently meaningful aliens] into the Marches isn't going to happen.

?

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Human Minors - Distinct: Swordworlders, Ardenese.

These are distints cultures, not races. (Although you might have Swordworlders as Native Solomani), and I wouldn't have the Ardenese as a "Distinct" culture more than I would have "Morainia" as a "Distinct" culture. YMMV of course.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

Majors present in the marches: Humaniti in three flavors (Zhodani, Vilani, generic imperial human), Vargr, Aslan, Droyne

But none of them have their homeworlds in the Marches (that Imperial scientists are aware of, anyway ). If you're going to start counting everyone who's merely present, you can start by adding K'Kree, Hivers, Bwaps, Virushi, and Ithklur, and most probably another 50 other minor non-humans. Oh, and several dozen minor humans.

Human Minors - Distinct: Swordworlders, Ardenese.

Neither are minor races, merely distinct ethnicities. Start counting those and you're looking at hundreds.

** Yeah, we know [Chirpers] are the same species as droyne... but definitely not the same culture.

We know that on the meta-level, and some Imperial scientists may have realized it, but apparently not enough for it to be more than a popular theory. The fact certainly hasn't made its way into the library data yet.


Hans

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Add some more minors Irklan and Llellewyloly.

There are a number of other from Behind the Claw that you may or may not want to include.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[DonM]

Majors present in the marches: Humaniti in three flavors (Zhodani, Vilani, generic imperial human), Vargr, Aslan, Droyne
Minors: Chirpers**, Eiboken, Dandies, Shriekers, Darrians*
Human Minors - Distinct: Swordworlders, Ardenese.
Transient minors known to be present: Virush, Newt
*or are they a human minor.
** Yeah, we know they are the same species as droyne... but definitely not the same culture.

As others have pointed out, the only human minor homeworld in the Marches is Darrian. The three major branches of Humaniti, Vargr and Aslan all have homeworlds elsewhere. Canon says the Droyne homeworlds WAS most likely in the Marches somewhere, which is why I did include them.

Cultures are not relevant -- the Chirpers share a homeworld with the Droyne.

The Ardenese are former Imperial colonials left to fend for themselves, and the Swordworlders are pure Solomani. The Virushi, Newt and Ael Yael homeworlds are in other sectors.

Add some more minors Irklan and Llellewyloly.

There are a number of other from Behind the Claw that you may or may not want to include.

The Irklan are a local human culture, not a minor race. The Llellewyloly are the Dandies. I've stated my personal opinions on the SpaceMaster aliens previously.

So, I count 8 local non-human homeworlds, one which is a major race, and one human minor, in the Marches. Four of these have been left open for referees to play with.

As far as the Shriekers, my view is:
a) the original report said the world is crap.
b) the Denuli crystals weren't connected to that system in any way.
c) followup reports confirmed the world was still crap.

Look at the Marches. If you're a merchant company, you can find plenty of other places to spend your money. And we sent a guy there, and he confirmed it was still crap. I'm not wasting more money confirming the confirmation.

 

[aramis]

Don, given that medical exam can determine a Sword Worlder from an imperial, that implies a speciation event (3000 years is sufficient; that's only half the time of the polar bear, but longer than the transitional fossil period for same).

However, we do have one more everyone's ignoring: Jagd-Il-Jigd. Homeworld not specified, but they are encountered primarily in the marches and only in the DD.

 

[mmbutter]

Don, given that medical exam can determine a Sword Worlder from an imperial, that implies a speciation event

A medical exam can determine if someone was born in Africa or in North America. Speciation is not required.

 

[Whipsnade]

A medical exam can determine if someone was born in Africa or in North America. Speciation is not required.

MMButter,

Beat me to it!

A medical examine can also determine if someone as been in Africa or North America or any other continent or even regions within those continents for a period of time. Much of it all has to do with isotopic ratios and parts of your body that continually grow or are replaced like nails, hair, skin, blood cells, bone, etc.

I'd suspect with the multiplicity of biospheres and gravities in the OTU, plus the other miracles of 57th Century science, that there will be plenty of other such markers and methods to quickly identify them with trivial effort.

By the way, isn't there a canonical saliva test to determine whether you've any Solomani and/or Vilani ancestry?


Regards,
Bill

P.S. In case anyone didn't understand my first post, the Marches already have too many native sophont races. There are 25 other sectors or portions of sectors in the Imperium and 116 other named sectors in Chartered Space, and that's not counting the untold sectors of the Zhodani Core Route. If anyone feels the need to inflict their personal minor on the OTU, there is plenty of room for your pets' homeworld beyond the Marches.

The Marches are full.

 

[DonM]

Don, given that medical exam can determine a Sword Worlder from an imperial, that implies a speciation event (3000 years is sufficient; that's only half the time of the polar bear, but longer than the transitional fossil period for same).

However, we do have one more everyone's ignoring: Jagd-Il-Jigd. Homeworld not specified, but they are encountered primarily in the marches and only in the DD.

Last I knew, their homeworld was Jagd (Lishun 2307). Has that changed?

 

[aramis]

A medical exam can determine if someone was born in Africa or in North America. Speciation is not required.

A posthumous one... The needed materials for such go beyond medical exam and into isotopic analysis of bones. It's rather hard on the body being examined - you need a bone sample for chemical isotopic analysis.

The exam needed to tell Vilani, Sword Worlder, Zho apart from each other and from generic human is just imaging techniques and physical exam.

Blood type, count the teeth and number of roots, and look for unique elements in the morphology. (The implication then must follow: Solomani should be equally distinct, as should most human minors, save those interbred with others...)

But with 15-20 races already defined that one can encounter in the marches, adding anything more starts to look more like star wars than I care for. And it's immaterial to me whether they are physically speciated or merely culturally distinct... if they get modified CGen, they're aliens. Likewise, their homeworld is equally immaterial; all that matters is "will I encounter them."

And all this further ignores the protosentient species: Anolas, and possibly a few others.

It's already crowded. No new ones needed, unless retconning out the others.

 

[mmbutter]

A posthumous one... The needed materials for such go beyond medical exam and into isotopic analysis of bones. It's rather hard on the body being examined - you need a bone sample for chemical isotopic analysis.

Yes, NOW.

I postulate advances in the medical sciences over the next several thousand years.