A jump drive replacement for T5

[ThornPlutonius]

I like the initial workups for the SPIN and Spindizzy. I will note, however, that the Spindizzy wasn't an FTL drive. It only really worked for interstellar travel because humanity had also developed anagathic (sp?) drugs to effectively end aging. So, yeah, useful in a system for "heavy lifting" of objects from one place to another, but less useful for interstellar travel in a Traveller universe.

 

[savage]

FF&S had alternatives. Perhaps T5 will have them.

 

[rancke]

FF&S had alternatives. Perhaps T5 will have them.

The rules, at least. The Third Imperium, possibly (Marc's call). I hope not though.


Hans

 

[savage]

The rules, at least. The Third Imperium, possibly (Marc's call). I hope not though.


Hans

If one is not using 3I OTU as-is, an alternative could be interesting.
A more options a ref can use the better. Also, no one said it needed to be exclusive and perfect tech. Jump Drives could be cheaper, safer, more reliable...who knows. J-36 ships at higher tech were another option.

I liked 1 episode of Andromeda where the crew came across an old jump-like exploration ship from old Earth. They were showing a less productive version of travel used in the past. That is an interesting twist.

 

[rancke]

If one is not using 3I OTU as-is, an alternative could be interesting.

Oh, indubitably.


Hans

 

[pendragonman]

I seem to recall in one of the Blish stories a discussion of one of the cities never being able to fly again due to several broken spindizzies (Earthman, Come Home) so the thought was to mount the remaining spindizzies into freighter hulls. So I am guessing from that that a single 'dizzie could drive a smaller hull and hence smaller ships are available.

Dizzies might make for excellent BCS drives...what with their increasing efficiency on larger masses to move.

I have read several shorts and seen a couple of shows somewhere that hade psychers for main drive components...Makes for a interesting spin on why the Imperium is hunting psionics.

Perhaps have the size of ship scaled that can be moved by a particular psionic scaled to their psionic rating and limiting those that can drive ships to Stage 3 or Stage 4...

 

[ThornPlutonius]

I seem to recall in one of the Blish stories a discussion of one of the cities never being able to fly again due to several broken spindizzies (Earthman, Come Home) so the thought was to mount the remaining spindizzies into freighter hulls. So I am guessing from that that a single 'dizzie could drive a smaller hull and hence smaller ships are available.

I'd forgotten that! Good catch.

They'd work to move asteroids and other similar bodies around a system to make mining resources more convenient with regards to getting the "ore" to a manufacturing platform. Instead of using freighters to haul the ore, move the asteroid.

 

[aramis]

Oh yeah, Known Space, Puppeteers, and all that. Neutron Star. At The core.

Funny, I was stuck in Pournelle's CoDominium universe, and forgot all about Known Space, and in fact confused my terms.

Different FTL mechanics completely.

CoDo ships aren't all that huge, either.

 

[pendragonman]

I'd forgotten that! Good catch.

They'd work to move asteroids and other similar bodies around a system to make mining resources more convenient with regards to getting the "ore" to a manufacturing platform. Instead of using freighters to haul the ore, move the asteroid.

I haven't read it in a decade, but that story made an impression "IMT made the sky...FALL!"

 

[JimMarn]

The stories about the Chanur and humans had a starship drive. I think its FTL, but its been years since I read those stories. Written by C. J. Cherryh.

Basically the ship accelerated and when it got to the next solar system it had to shed speed via vanes on the hull.

I didn't really understand what was going on there.

Can someone explain that FTL design ? Thanks !

 

[ThornPlutonius]

The stories about the Chanur and humans had a starship drive. I think its FTL, but its been years since I read those stories. Written by C. J. Cherryh.

Basically the ship accelerated and when it got to the next solar system it had to shed speed via vanes on the hull.

I didn't really understand what was going on there.

Can someone explain that FTL design ? Thanks !

I don't know that anyone can explain them to any great degree. I did find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chanur_novels

It has some explanation of the technology of that universe.

 

[robject]

Perhaps have the size of ship scaled that can be moved by a particular psionic scaled to their psionic rating and limiting those that can drive ships to Stage 3 or Stage 4...

Traveller5 already has that, if you count Teleportation as a potential drive. It's called Stutterport. And it would require a bunch of teeps to move a ship over interstellar distances. Analysis is needed.

 

[whulorigan]

Traveller5 already has that, if you count Teleportation as a potential drive. It's called Stutterport. And it would require a bunch of teeps to move a ship over interstellar distances. Analysis is needed.

It would certainly be an interesting ability to speculate about for use by the Zhodani (or even the Droyne and/or Ancients).

Considering that Zhodani (et al) also have a better understanding of psionic-based technology, is it possible that any of the above mentioned races were able to enhance their ability to "Stutterport" using technological enhancements? (The Psionic Jump technology in the alternate drive technology section of TNE's FF&S comes to mind)?

 

[SpaceBadger]

Whole thread is too long for me to read right now, so maybe this has already come up, but here are my .02 credits:

If you want to be compatible with and able to use the vast wealth of standard ships and ships designed by other people, you don't mess around with the various drive parts, tonnages, and fuel usage. Instead, you just re-define how these parts function in your TU.

If you want a one-day jaunt drive, there is no need to change anything in the design process, just re-define a "jump" as working the way that you want it.

In fact, as long as the tonnage works out the same, say you don't want that much fuel usage, just re-define part of that as being some other component of machinery. The key is to have tonnage of required stuff work out the same, so that you can use standard designs.

Oh, and if your jump/jaunt/hyper/warp/whatever doesn't have anything equivalent to J-1, J-2, J-3, etc, then just re-define those as well. Maybe drives sized for J-1 give one distance, or speed or whatever, whereas J-2 sized drives give slightly improved performance in some way, J-3 slightly better than that, etc.

 

[whulorigan]

One IMTU variant that I played with goes back to the CT LBBs ...

What if an isolated world never developed jump drive (their homeworld was 7 parsecs from the next nearest star, and a lot farther from the next nearest inhabited star system). So they just kept on advancing in TL (without Jump Drives) but ever improving the MD. To keep the math simple, I ignored the speed of light issues (they worked it out somehow - insert hand wave here) and just used the in-system travel formula for interstellar travel.

Here's a thought for an ATU FTL-drive based on what you described above (to give a little "hyper-physics technobabble" for your handwaive as explanatory background for being able to use a Newtonian Maneuver Drive for continuous acceleration-to-midpoint and deceleration:

I'll use some concepts from Larry Niven's Known Space Hyperdrive merely for purposes of illustration. Niven's Hyperdrive presupposed that our universe as we perceive it is in a "ground state" for which the speed of light is 3.0x10⁸ m/s. Niven's Hyperdrive shunted a starship into an "excited state" of the universe in which the speed of light was faster, and the ship travelled at "light-speed" in that state relative to the new higher value. Quantum I was 3 days to the lightyear, and Quantum II was 1.25 minutes to the light-year, etc.

As an alternative to Niven's Drive above, suppose your vessel has a drive system that allows your ship to enter the Quantum I excited state. But instead of traveling at a continuous 3 days to the light-year, you have to use your M-Drive for acceleration & deceleration as normal - except that the maximum speed of the universe is now 3 days to the light-year instead of standard lightspeed. At Quantum II, lightspeed is 1.25 minutes to the light-year, and you can use your M-Drive to accelerate & decelerate up to that value as a maximum, etc. (You can of course make up your own light-speed values for the excited states).

This might be something Jim Marn can employ for his Bussard Ramjet ideas as well.

 

[JimMarn]

I don't know that anyone can explain them to any great degree. I did find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chanur_novels

It has some explanation of the technology of that universe.

Thanks, that clears it up in my head.

 

[JimMarn]

Here's a thought for an ATU FTL-drive based on what you described above (to give a little "hyper-physics technobabble" for your handwaive as explanatory background for being able to use a Newtonian Maneuver Drive for continuous acceleration-to-midpoint and deceleration:

I'll use some concepts from Larry Niven's Known Space Hyperdrive merely for purposes of illustration. Niven's Hyperdrive presupposed that our universe as we perceive it is in a "ground state" for which the speed of light is 3.0x10⁸ m/s. Niven's Hyperdrive shunted a starship into an "excited state" of the universe in which the speed of light was faster, and the ship travelled at "light-speed" in that state relative to the new higher value. Quantum I was 3 days to the lightyear, and Quantum II was 1.25 minutes to the light-year, etc.

As an alternative to Niven's Drive above, suppose your vessel has a drive system that allows your ship to enter the Quantum I excited state. But instead of traveling at a continuous 3 days to the light-year, you have to use your M-Drive for acceleration & deceleration as normal - except that the maximum speed of the universe is now 3 days to the light-year instead of standard lightspeed. At Quantum II, lightspeed is 1.25 minutes to the light-year, and you can use your M-Drive to accelerate & decelerate up to that value as a maximum, etc. (You can of course make up your own light-speed values for the excited states).

This might be something Jim Marn can employ for his Bussard Ramjet ideas as well.

This sounds more viable for the Bussard... I may have to change the site to reflect a different drive name. Not a big deal.

Certainly makes it better than a generation ship.

I may not use the Quantum II part. I want the Wanderer to be faster, but not faster than Jump drive.

So 9.78 days for 1 parsec.

Oh, JimMarn is a forum name, my real first name is Jim.

 

[Vladika]

I'm finding MgT Warp Drive rather interesting. So far, other than some extra cargo/passenger tonnage, it doesn't seem to "break" the OTU for FTL.

Warp is simply how far your drives can take of in ONE week, pretty much the same as other Traveller versions jump drive. The big difference is your ship's power plant is the fueling source, burning twice the fuel as usual, BUT, no "J Fuel" required.

Keeps FTL flight times in line with the OTU, but allows an interesting alternative to jump.

The question arose on the order of, "what about a society 7 parsecs from the nearest next system". Well, here it is: Warp Drive from MgT. The ship never leaves "normal" space, thus, equivalent range is possible without ever discovering, or using, jump drives.

An interesting offshoot is, with the fission power plant, travel can be at lower TLs. As soon as fission is available, off you go.

Of course it doesn't have to be a fission drive, but check it out can imagine the possibilities.

 

[robject]

Considering that Zhodani (et al) also have a better understanding of psionic-based technology, is it possible that any of the above mentioned races were able to enhance their ability to "Stutterport" using technological enhancements?

Sure. It seems to me to just be a matter of balance: any improvement in sutterport would have to be offset by usage.

For example, psionic technology could provide an "amplifier" that increases range, at the expense of precision: you can 'port your ship further, but an error will accumulate.

Something stutterport already provides: if you have powerful enough teeps, I think you could have extremely agile insystem ships. I think this in fact would be exploited by Zhodani.

 

[esampson]

I'm finding MgT Warp Drive rather interesting. So far, other than some extra cargo/passenger tonnage, it doesn't seem to "break" the OTU for FTL.

Warp is simply how far your drives can take of in ONE week, pretty much the same as other Traveller versions jump drive. The big difference is your ship's power plant is the fueling source, burning twice the fuel as usual, BUT, no "J Fuel" required.

. . .

I'm not super familiar with MgT but unfortunately as described it sounds like it does break at least 2 fairly big things that the 'standard' jump drive has set.

First off, Star systems have to be very independent. Under the 'classic' drive if a system is being invaded it would take at least 2 weeks for reinforcements to arrive (1 week for the message to be sent to a neighboring system and another week for those ships to arrive).

Under the system you described 'fast response' units between planets become much more viable. A J-6 ship could reach a neighboring system in a little over a day and J-3 or 4 fast response ships could return in just over (or just under) 2 days. Threats to planets, ships, and colonies at the edge of a system could be reached by other ships within the system in minutes (or at least the escape route could be cut off within minutes).

Another problem, from what it seems that you are saying, is that it is very difficult to have solid borders. The enormous fuel requirement of a jump typical allows the creation of a strong border since ships are fairly limited in how far they can jump before refuelling. If a ship can travel for multiple weeks before refuelling then even places such as the Rift can become trivial to pass.