A Heretical Traveller Universe

[Timerover51]

Do hyperdrives and jump drives utilize the same dimension? Or do they each utilize different spaces?

No, as I conceive it they use two different spaces.

The Hyperdrive accesses a different universe/space where it is possible to travel much faster than our universe's speed of light. That means that you use your Maneuver Drive in Hyperspace to provide your velocity, but it is much faster. Note, this means that the Maneuver Drive is reactionless in some form. I call it the Abbott-Dean Drive, derived from H. Beam Piper's stories where he has the Abbott lift-and-drive and the Dean Drive. It is reactionless, and not dependent on the presence of a gravitational body. The Hyperdrive is called the Dillingham, again based on H. Beam Piper.

With the Jump Drive, I conceive of that as the generation of a temporary wormhole, with the distance the Drive operates based on the energy expended in making the Jump. You have your basic Jump Drive, and then you have an increasing number of capacitor banks to provide the massive energy jolt for a Jump.

In the Andre Norton books, you do not really have any sense of how the ships are propelled in space, or how they travel faster-than-light. In Galactic Derelict, there is mention of fuel being used, but not in the sense of a reaction drive. There is mention of the wrenching feeling of breaking out into normal space from whatever space is used for interstellar travel.

 

[wellis]

With the Jump Drive, I conceive of that as the generation of a temporary wormhole, with the distance the Drive operates based on the energy expended in making the Jump. You have your basic Jump Drive, and then you have an increasing number of capacitor banks to provide the massive energy jolt for a Jump.

How fast is a jump? A week in jump space? Or is it faster or instantaneous, considering it's a "temporary wormhole?"

 

[SpaceBadger]

Have you considered (and if you did, what did you decide?) Having the Jump drives only able to operate to open functional wormholes within fairly limited area of each system? And each such "potential wormhole area" links to one specific other system, such as operates in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan stories or Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium/Empire/Second Empire? In those universes, activating your Jump drive in the wrong place may expend a lot of energy as it TRIES to open a wormhole, but if you aren't on a potential tramline the wormhole won't stay open enough to be of any use. In both of those universes, wormhole transit is instantaneous; all of the time taken in interstellar travel is insystem, from one jump point to the next, or getting to planets, stations, or other destinations.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Browsing back over previous entries a bit:

The entry on El Paso makes it plain that carrying weapons while exiting your ship will get you treated as a raider, and killed as such. How about after you've passed the local customs/immigration/visitor entry and checked in at one of the fine local boarding establishments. Are you allowed to unpack and carry reasonable weapons (handguns and knives, frex) from your luggage? Or equip yourself at the local hardware store? If the locals are mostly carrying (as seems likely on a colony of New Texas), it seems unfair to mark visitors permanently as unarmed and defenseless Dudes. (BTW, what sort of critters swim in the ponds of San Jacinto Plaza in this El Paso?)


Second question (ok, third. fourth. whatever): You mention some of the Aslan keeping Human slaves. Haven't any of the various Human forces ever gotten upset enough about this to put together a united fleet and go wipe out any slaveholding Aslan, along with an announcement that further similar crimes against Humanity will not be tolerated and will receive similar response?

 

[Condottiere]

1. I doubt that jump space has ever been satisfactorily explained, nor the process of accessing it, nor the means to do that.

2. I suspect that the Imperium and the Confederation have a policy of containment concerning the Aslan, possibly the Zhodani as well; the Confederation is likely planning on a final solution once they've liberated the Sphere and established a hefty buffer zone, the slavery aspect and expansionary nature of the Aslan would be considered casus belli.

 

[Timerover51]

Have you considered (and if you did, what did you decide?) Having the Jump drives only able to operate to open functional wormholes within fairly limited area of each system? And each such "potential wormhole area" links to one specific other system, such as operates in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan stories or Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium/Empire/Second Empire? In those universes, activating your Jump drive in the wrong place may expend a lot of energy as it TRIES to open a wormhole, but if you aren't on a potential tramline the wormhole won't stay open enough to be of any use. In both of those universes, wormhole transit is instantaneous; all of the time taken in interstellar travel is insystem, from one jump point to the next, or getting to planets, stations, or other destinations.

No, as that makes piracy too easy. With that, a ship can only come out of Jump or go into Jump at a fairly precise spot, which is going to be known to all ships. So a pirate parks near the entrance or exit point and waits for a victim to appear.

Browsing back over previous entries a bit:

The entry on El Paso makes it plain that carrying weapons while exiting your ship will get you treated as a raider, and killed as such. How about after you've passed the local customs/immigration/visitor entry and checked in at one of the fine local boarding establishments. Are you allowed to unpack and carry reasonable weapons (handguns and knives, frex) from your luggage? Or equip yourself at the local hardware store? If the locals are mostly carrying (as seems likely on a colony of New Texas), it seems unfair to mark visitors permanently as unarmed and defenseless Dudes.

The planet has been raided three times by the Space Vikings where they have attacked one of the major cities. Twice El Paso, 20 and 10 years ago, and once New Y'awlins, 5 years ago. Outlying settlements have been periodically raided for food, with more or less success, depending on the warning available and the size of the settlement. Customs will be checking your luggage for weapons. Knives may pass, blackpowder weapons will pass as long as they are not semi-automatic. Smokeless powder weapons will not pass. Weapons that do not pass are impounded and secured by the local sheriff until the ship leaves, when they are delivered to the ship to be returned to the owner. If a visitor wishes to buy a handgun, that is fine, but he or she does become a target for the locals, especially if they remain in outworld clothing. Quite simply, carry at your own risk. And watch out for the chili.

(BTW, what sort of critters swim in the ponds of San Jacinto Plaza in this El Paso?)

Would you believe large Terran Goldfish of various colors? The large lake near El Paso does have a mix of freshwater creatures, both Terran and local, while the ocean is where the armored crushjaws live, along with a variety of Terran and local life.

Second question (ok, third. fourth. whatever): You mention some of the Aslan keeping Human slaves. Haven't any of the various Human forces ever gotten upset enough about this to put together a united fleet and go wipe out any slaveholding Aslan, along with an announcement that further similar crimes against Humanity will not be tolerated and will receive similar response?

You have to remember that this sector, if on the Traveller map, is 2 or 3 sectors to the Rimward of the Solomani area. There is no central government, not any major centers of power. The Space Vikings to raid the Aslan slave-holders when they get adequate intelligence, but they are not exactly the ones described by Piper in Space Viking. This is a small ship universe, and the typical Space Viking ship runs between 600 and 1000 tons, with a few up to 2000 tons. Coordinated raids are rare, as it cuts into the profit margin.

 

[creativehum]

Can you talk more about the lack of personal energy weapons?

I am assuming slug throwers are the most advanced weapons? Or commonly used weapons?

I'm not arguing the point. But very curious about the decision.

Thanks!

 

[wellis]

I wonder if gauss weapons are a thing here, or are they too high-tech/expensive?

 

[Timerover51]

Can you talk more about the lack of personal energy weapons?

I am assuming slug throwers are the most advanced weapons? Or commonly used weapons?

I'm not arguing the point. But very curious about the decision.

Thanks!

For laser weapons, the issue is the power pack and the need to continual replacement and recharging of same. It is good for 50 or 100 shots, depending on whether it is a carbine or a rifle (I am not at all sure why there is a difference, but rules are rules). In any sort of firefight, that is going to be burned pretty quickly, and then you need a new battery pack and the used one recharged. That is going to create an enormous supply headache, as the battery packs are going to be too expensive to simply discard after one use, plus it does add to the load carried. Then I view the laser as having pretty much zero penetration of any cover or concealment.

With respect to plasma weapons, how do you control the plasma in a hand weapon? How do you create it in the first place, and then channel it in the direction that you want it to go? Remember, that plasma is going to be incredibly hot by nature. Why is it not melting the weapon? Once it leaves the weapon, how are you going to keep it from immediately expanding into a fireball just off of the weapon muzzle?

As for fusion guns, you are setting off a very small fusion bomb inside of a hand weapon. How are you going to control that expanding ball of particles and energy, and then somehow send it in a specific direction, once it leaves the weapon? Beside that, how are you going to protect the firer and his/her/its immediate surrounding from a major case of radiation poisoning?
If you have a substance that will contain that and it is light enough to use as a part of a weapon, why is there not armor made of it? Basically, the whole concept breaks down over the containment issue.

So, slugthrowers are it, and besides, they are a lot cheaper and ammo resupply is a lot easier. This is supposed to be more of a frontier area as well.

 

[Timerover51]

I wonder if gauss weapons are a thing here, or are they too high-tech/expensive?

The problem again is the battery pack, like the laser weapons.

 

[wellis]

With respect to plasma weapons, how do you control the plasma in a hand weapon? How do you create it in the first place, and then channel it in the direction that you want it to go? Remember, that plasma is going to be incredibly hot by nature. Why is it not melting the weapon? Once it leaves the weapon, how are you going to keep it from immediately expanding into a fireball just off of the weapon muzzle?

As for fusion guns, you are setting off a very small fusion bomb inside of a hand weapon. How are you going to control that expanding ball of particles and energy, and then somehow send it in a specific direction, once it leaves the weapon? Beside that, how are you going to protect the firer and his/her/its immediate surrounding from a major case of radiation poisoning?
If you have a substance that will contain that and it is light enough to use as a part of a weapon, why is there not armor made of it? Basically, the whole concept breaks down over the containment issue.

So, slugthrowers are it, and besides, they are a lot cheaper and ammo resupply is a lot easier. This is supposed to be more of a frontier area as well.

Does that mean the Terran Confederation & both Imperiums also have not really developed personal plasma or fusion weapons?

It does make it interesting I feel if even they, with their greater resources, have struggled to find ways to miniaturize such technology down on a personal level.

 

[creativehum]

For laser weapons, the issue is the power pack and the need to continual replacement and recharging of same. It is good for 50 or 100 shots, depending on whether it is a carbine or a rifle (I am not at all sure why there is a difference, but rules are rules). In any sort of firefight, that is going to be burned pretty quickly, and then you need a new battery pack and the used one recharged. That is going to create an enormous supply headache, as the battery packs are going to be too expensive to simply discard after one use, plus it does add to the load carried. Then I view the laser as having pretty much zero penetration of any cover or concealment.

With respect to plasma weapons, how do you control the plasma in a hand weapon? How do you create it in the first place, and then channel it in the direction that you want it to go? Remember, that plasma is going to be incredibly hot by nature. Why is it not melting the weapon? Once it leaves the weapon, how are you going to keep it from immediately expanding into a fireball just off of the weapon muzzle?

As for fusion guns, you are setting off a very small fusion bomb inside of a hand weapon. How are you going to control that expanding ball of particles and energy, and then somehow send it in a specific direction, once it leaves the weapon? Beside that, how are you going to protect the firer and his/her/its immediate surrounding from a major case of radiation poisoning?
If you have a substance that will contain that and it is light enough to use as a part of a weapon, why is there not armor made of it? Basically, the whole concept breaks down over the containment issue.

So, slugthrowers are it, and besides, they are a lot cheaper and ammo resupply is a lot easier. This is supposed to be more of a frontier area as well.

Thank you for the reply.

And I concur with it by the way. I can see laser rifles being used for specific applications (they are silent, they have no recoil), but as a mattter of being standard issue, that might not be the case in all settings.

More generally, I really like your approach to personal energy weapons in general. Although lots and lots of SF fiction leans on personal energy weapons to create "the feel" of being the future, that doesn't mean it will actually be easier to create, control, and focus high units of energy simply because it is the future.

Sometimes the universe says, "No."

I know that pisses off a lot of people who want the whiz-bang tech as a given in a Far Future setting. But I really like the idea that along certain paths of tech development there are lower returns or dead ends.

 

[Timerover51]

Does that mean the Terran Confederation & both Imperiums also have not really developed personal plasma or fusion weapons?

It does make it interesting I feel if even they, with their greater resources, have struggled to find ways to miniaturize such technology down on a personal level.

At least in my Universe, they have not. I have a problem with ship-based energy weapons of the plasma and fusion variety, as when they are fired, they are also highly efficient reaction drive units. This means that when they are fired, the ship is going to receive a massive velocity impulse in the opposite direction of the target. There is also still the dispersion effect immediately upon the energy bolt leaving the barrel.

 

[mike wightman]

A ship mounted plasma weapon doesn't provide a great deal of thrust, since the mass of plasma fired is quite small while the mass of the ship is very large.
Here in the real world experiments have built electromagnetic plasma accelerators that can get your plasma bolt up to around 100km/s - note also it is possible to maintain the integrity of the plasma ball in a vacuum by spinning it. But yes, scale it up and you have a plasma thruster then a plasma main drive rocket (you wouldn't want to weaponise the latter two though would you )

The biggest problem with laser weapons is how do you deal with waste heat - but very few sci fi authors ever consider waste heat management.

 

[wellis]

In addition, wouldn't that mean railguns or ship-mounted slug throwers would have more recoil than plasma weapons because the slugs have more mass than plasma?

 

[mike wightman]

They can't fire them at the same velocity - the best a railgun has managed is much less then 5km/s.

 

[wellis]

A ship mounted plasma weapon doesn't provide a great deal of thrust, since the mass of plasma fired is quite small while the mass of the ship is very large.
Here in the real world experiments have built electromagnetic plasma accelerators that can get your plasma bolt up to around 100km/s - note also it is possible to maintain the integrity of the plasma ball in a vacuum by spinning it. But yes, scale it up and you have a plasma thruster then a plasma main drive rocket (you wouldn't want to weaponise the latter two though would you )

The biggest problem with laser weapons is how do you deal with waste heat - but very few sci fi authors ever consider waste heat management.

How do particle weapons compare to laser weapons regarding heat management and waste heat?

 

[mike wightman]

Particle accelerators are a lot more efficient than lasers, but there is still a considerable amount of waste heat to deal with if you want a PAW beam that can damage an enemy vessel.

 

[wellis]

Particle accelerators are a lot more efficient than lasers, but there is still a considerable amount of waste heat to deal with if you want a PAW beam that can damage an enemy vessel.

Can a particle weapons knock out a ship's electronics like the Colonial Marines handbook claims the Sulaco's neutral particle beams weapons can do at long range:

Secondary armament consists of a pair of 800 MeV turboalternator powered Neutral Particle Beam weapons, firing into the starship's forward "cone", each capable of disabling a target's instrumentation and electronics at ranges of up to 100,000 kilometer.

 

[Timerover51]

Can a particle weapons knock out a ship's electronics like the Colonial Marines handbook claims the Sulaco's neutral particle beams weapons can do at long range:

Secondary armament consists of a pair of 800 MeV turboalternator powered Neutral Particle Beam weapons, firing into the starship's forward "cone", each capable of disabling a target's instrumentation and electronics at ranges of up to 100,000 kilometer.

I am not sure that I want to try and compute the aiming accuracy required to it a target the size of a ship at 100,000 kilometers with a beam weapon of very limited effective area. Especially if the target ship is attempting to evade the fire.