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A Heretical Traveller Universe

For laser weapons, the issue is the power pack and the need to continual replacement and recharging of same. It is good for 50 or 100 shots, depending on whether it is a carbine or a rifle (I am not at all sure why there is a difference, but rules are rules). In any sort of firefight, that is going to be burned pretty quickly, and then you need a new battery pack and the used one recharged. That is going to create an enormous supply headache, as the battery packs are going to be too expensive to simply discard after one use, plus it does add to the load carried. Then I view the laser as having pretty much zero penetration of any cover or concealment.
The image that comes to mind is the 'radio guy' in many WWII movies, who carries this big heavy backpack (the radio) and not much else. A laser pack recharger might be designed to put say 10 shots' worth of juice into 4 packs at a time, not fully recharge everything from 0%. This provides for light covering fire while the special mission unit retreats to conventionally-armed friendlies.

To extend the analogy a bit, the 'radio guy' could also have been a CodeTalker and his value to the unit was in his specialized knowledge. The 'recharger guy' could be a techie who can field-maintain the exotic equipment (such as replacing heat-warped / melting parts).
 
The image that comes to mind is the 'radio guy' in many WWII movies, who carries this big heavy backpack (the radio) and not much else. A laser pack recharger might be designed to put say 10 shots' worth of juice into 4 packs at a time, not fully recharge everything from 0%. This provides for light covering fire while the special mission unit retreats to conventionally-armed friendlies.

To extend the analogy a bit, the 'radio guy' could also have been a CodeTalker and his value to the unit was in his specialized knowledge. The 'recharger guy' could be a techie who can field-maintain the exotic equipment (such as replacing heat-warped / melting parts).


My typical solution set is to have dedicated fusion rechargers, pretty easy to define using CT/Striker plant/battery rules.


Higher tech forces can inherently carry heavier fusion packs for recharge, robot 'mules' are also an option. Or maybe fusion cowbots, milked for power recharging, walking along with infantry while also carrying other supplies.
 
At least in my Universe, they have not. I have a problem with ship-based energy weapons of the plasma and fusion variety, as when they are fired, they are also highly efficient reaction drive units. This means that when they are fired, the ship is going to receive a massive velocity impulse in the opposite direction of the target. There is also still the dispersion effect immediately upon the energy bolt leaving the barrel.
What type of ship weapons, and defenses, then exist in your setting if even lasers are problematic for ship weapons?

Do your ships have to worry about waste heat, and thus require radiators, like in reality?
 
What type of ship weapons, and defenses, then exist in your setting if even lasers are problematic for ship weapons?

Personal lasers are what I have a problem with, not ship-based lasers. So you basically have what weapons are in LBB 2 Starships: lasers, missiles, ad sandcasters. As I am not a fan of space combat between ships, I may go with abstracting space combat considerably. However, if some players want to shoot it out in space, then I will suggest the standard Classic rules for fighting it out. I do assume that sandcasters in my Universe have a bit more than just small glass or plastic prisms in them to break up a laser bean. They will have spheres of metal of various sizes included in them, under the assumption that any pursuing ship is going to be traveling a lot faster than a trader, and running into metallic objects at high speeds will not be good for the condition of the pursuing ship. Missiles for space use will not be streamlined (as unnecessary), and will resemble a rectangular box, with a drive unit of some form on one end, and a guidance unit on the other. Lasers can be used as anti-missile weapons, and knock out the guidance system. Space missiles cannot be used in an atmosphere, and atmospheric missiles cannot be used in space.

Do your ships have to worry about waste heat, and thus require radiators, like in reality?

I have a book, Thrust Into Space, that has an illustration on the size of radiator needed for a 200 megawatt fission planet, and the radiating surface covers about half of the ship. I figure that I am just going to ignore it, and that does cover a wide range of equipment, including anything using a fusion plant for power. I know that it is there, I just have not figured out a good way of actually dealing with the issue.
 
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Er, I don't quite get the 'can't use atmospheric missiles in space' bit- vacuum doesn't impinge on streamlined shapes.



I could see having two types of launchers and general classes of missiles, atmo and space, and the two don't mix due to form factor and the atmo missiles could be built to have a lot less speed and range in space and more warhead.



However, planets need to have defenses and attacking ships need to be able to bombard, so even if you have to be in orbital range to use these missiles to and from the planet, they would still have to be able to operate in both realms. Atmo launchers could still fire missiles in an emergency, but they would be strictly short range and not be good at hitting escaping targets except with a higher delta vee to start.



The nice thing about having that distinction though is forcing players to make a choice of rigging their ships for space combat or planetary action. Merc and raider ships would tend to have mostly atmo launchers for bombardment and planetary control activities, pirates patrols and traders would opt for space launchers. Could also be adventuring ships carry spare racks and ammo to switch when they anticipate needing the other type.
 
I need to do some thinking about the Slug Pistol skill in Cepheus Engine, making is something a lot closer to the Gun Combat Skill in the 1977 Edition of the LBB. With Gun Combat, you have a cascade skill where you select the type of weapon you want the skill in. For handguns, you have the choice of Body Pistol, Automatic Pistol, and Revolver. The Body Pistol is basically a small Automatic Pistol, so I am not sure if there should be a distinction. The Revolver is a different type of weapon completely.

The reason for the rethink is I was out shooting on Wednesday with a friend of mine, and we were shooting a small 9mm semi-automatic pistol, designed for concealed carry, and a .38 Special/.357 Magnum single-action revolver. Cartridge ejection on the revolver was done via an manually operated ejector rod under the barrel. Now, someone totally unfamiliar with a revolver might figure out that you had to thumb the hammer back after each shot. probably after wasting some time futilely jerking the trigger. I has serious doubts if they would figure out how to eject the cartridges short of using a screwdriver to poke them out of the cylinder or use the blade to get under the cartridge rim and get them out that way. That does assume that they discover the side-loading gate. As for a cap-and-ball percussion revolver, my guess that after firing one cylinder, the average person used to a semi-auto would be totally stumped.

One problem with the 9mm semi-auto was the way that it through spent brass all over the place. I am not a fan of getting hit with spent brass, and my buddy did indicate that on a couple of occasions, he has had hot spent brass go down the back of his shirt.

Aside from toning down the Body Pistol ballistics and boosting the weight, I think that having the choice of a Semi-Automatic Pistol Skill or a Revolver skill is the best way to go. Then maybe allow the individual with the Revolver Skill to shoot a semi-auto at one skill level lower than the revolver skill, but not allow the same for the Semi-Auto Pistol skill. That might take Semi-Auto Skill Level 2 to shoot at 2 skill levels lower.
 
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The skill is in lining up the sights on the target and smoothly squeezing the trigger - all while something is doing the same or worse to you.

The difference between shooting a revolver and an automatic pistol is minimal to non-existent - certainly not enough to warrant a skill difference in a game where a +/-1 to a 2d6 roll has a major effect on outcome probability.

I might apply a familiarity penalty in a % based system, but after a few rounds on the range the greater effect on actual combat skill is coolness under fire.

The actual mechanics of loading, unloading, stripping and cleaning pistols can be learned in a few minutes watching youtube...
 
The skill is in lining up the sights on the target and smoothly squeezing the trigger - all while something is doing the same or worse to you.

Essentially the only time unfamiliarity with the weapon really comes in to play is operating a completely strange weapon (i.e. grabbing a gun off of a guard that you just clunked on the head).

As I mentioned before, the Franchi SPAS-12 (made famous in Terminator) is a non-intuitive piece of kit. I couldn't even get it to cycle without instruction.

But I didn't spend any time on it either.

But this is a far cry from not know how to "shoot". Once in "pull the trigger mode", they're more the same than not, especially at social distances. 400 yards shots with a revolver, yea, you'd want to have some time on the particular piece to make those reliably. But in a corridor? Not a lot of difference.
 
I view skill with a weapon as considerably more than just lining up the sights and blasting away. It that is all the Skill Level means, then why is there any differentiation for weapons at all. The Gun Combat skill would then apply to all weapons and the only difference would be the various range modifiers to the die roll. You could do equally well with a .44 Magnum Derringer (I was just looking at one in my local gun shop) to a Browning Automatic Rifle to a .454 Casull revolver to a .600 Nitro Express Double to a .44 Colt Dragoon percussion-cap revolver.

I view the Skill Level for a weapon in a bit more comprehensive way, to include knowing how to properly load it, shoot it safely, and care for it. I would love to see someone handed a Civil War-era accurate Henry Repeater replica, blast away with it and them tell them to reload it. My guess it that they would be totally stumped, as it does not have a side loading gate like the later Winchester did. Not all weapons use detachable magazines that just pop out and then stuff in a fresh one. Then you do have to load the magazine properly, and not reverse the bullet in loading it. The SKS carbine, firing the same round as the AK-47, uses an integral 10 round magazine, which you load either by hand or using a stripper clip. That is a nice weapon by the way, as it also has an intergral spike bayonet under the barrel.

I do keep thinking that if I allow for a Skill Level "0" in a weapon, that on a roll of 2, unmodified, the person shooting shoots themself.
 
The skill is in lining up the sights on the target and smoothly squeezing the trigger - all while something is doing the same or worse to you.

The difference between shooting a revolver and an automatic pistol is minimal to non-existent - certainly not enough to warrant a skill difference in a game where a +/-1 to a 2d6 roll has a major effect on outcome probability.

I might apply a familiarity penalty in a % based system, but after a few rounds on the range the greater effect on actual combat skill is coolness under fire.

The actual mechanics of loading, unloading, stripping and cleaning pistols can be learned in a few minutes watching youtube...

I'm on the same page as Mike here. With a few points to add:

- We all readily observe (and comment) on the Classic Traveller skill levels; in particular that a level "1" skill is considered competent enough to get professional-level employment in something. Read this as equivalent to being 'certified' or otherwise having demonstrated a level of knowledge to handle not just the "typical" daily events of the task, but for the unusual as well.

Additionally, the whole point of 0-level skills in things like drive, computer and the like is to reflect that the character can function more or less with the basics of said task; but when things go sideways they don't have the background to function as effectively as a pro. For those with an education background, Level 0 falls in that realm of "Conscious Competence", whereas an unskilled person is in the "Unconscious" or "Conscious" Incompetence stage reflected by the die penalty.

Yet - why do we all get so wrapped around applying the same thought to combat skills? And yes, I've been guilty of it too.

For example, I've spent the majority of the past 30 years carrying and using firearms for a living. This includes over a decade as a federal and state certified instructor for handgun, rifle and shotgun; work within the special operations and tactical communities, and duties instructing these skills. Additionally, I've dabbled along the way with combative, to include a few stints here and there with both knife and sword study.

Now - let's realistically examine my skill set in CT terms (although I won't go full cascade, for reasons Mike hit and I'll add to):

Handgun: At my best, in my prime Handgun-3 MAYBE. I was functioning as an instructor a minimum of five full days a month, and doing self-proficiency work at least 8 solid hours a week. From a professional standpoint, I was within the top 5% of what would be considered a peer group on a national scale. Yes, there were definitely people better than me - but they were the ones putting in even more time solely focused on that skill. Today? 1-2 in the same skill - because I don't currently get that practice time.

Rifle: 1-2 MAX. Sure, I was an instructor. I was a competent operator. I was capable of employing the platform from 0-200 meters reliably, and out beyond with the proper equipment and conditions. BUT I was far from an "expert" despite what military award standards say. I was not a designated marksman, sniper, or any of varied other labels. And, quite honestly, if you look at MOST "professionals" they'd be about the same.

Brawling and Blade Combat? 0. I've dabbled - I've used it a few times IRL events. BUT I am far from a "professional" able to make a living off just these skills. This is where the level 0 accurately reflects "competent enough not to completely freeze or do something stupid."

I could go on, but we get the point.

Similarly, to follow on what Mike said, when you're talking 2D6 a +/- 1 is a very significant change. And, quite frankly, like he said the basic "skill set" involved in both marksmanship fundamentals AND employing a firearm under stress and under fire really isn't that hugely different between platforms. Especially once you have the basics down. That's part of why it's easier once you have those fundamentals to learn a new platform - it becomes just another tool in the tool box. Sure, there is a BIG difference between running a revolver and a heavy machine gun - which justifies different skills. But between a semi-auto pistol and a revolver? Really not that much.

Finally, as to the issue of "X generation weapon functions and is loaded different than Y" - IMHO again, that's getting out of the realm of our 2D6 view. We don't penalize someone in their Pilot skill because they're now flying a Solomoni built Free Trader, instead of the Deneb Scout Ship they qualified on - why would we do it on weapons? Yes, if you like getting "crunchy" with things like natural 2/12 rolls, this is a spot to have fun with familiarity. But going down the rabbit hole of "you need 47 different gun combat skills to reflect all these options" defeats the whole intent of the system.

As always, YMMV, and these are just my opinions.
 
Your comments are noted, gentlemen, but I should point out that the title of the thread is "A Heretical Traveller Universe". I am proceeding based on what I have observed over the years. I think that my concept of Skill Level 1 for any area is close to what Diveguy views as Skill Level "0". I will also be using a percentile system for combat, not the 2D6, which does tend to change the effects of a change in bonus/minus.

The question I pose to you gentlemen is, if the Skill Levels for small arms is simply a matter of how well you can line the sights up, what constitutes Skill Levels in other areas? I will be going with what I feel comfortable with. If you choose another course, the game allows for that.
 
Your comments are noted, gentlemen, but I should point out that the title of the thread is "A Heretical Traveller Universe". I am proceeding based on what I have observed over the years. I think that my concept of Skill Level 1 for any area is close to what Diveguy views as Skill Level "0". I will also be using a percentile system for combat, not the 2D6, which does tend to change the effects of a change in bonus/minus.

The question I pose to you gentlemen is, if the Skill Levels for small arms is simply a matter of how well you can line the sights up, what constitutes Skill Levels in other areas? I will be going with what I feel comfortable with. If you choose another course, the game allows for that.


- As you said sir, you're going with a percentile system, so yes small changes are not as big of an issue. Was merely offering a counterpoint.

- My observations are NOT saying "weapon skill" is merely lining sights up and pulling the trigger. I view it as employing the tool competently in a stressful situation, as well as routine maintenance, understanding of the item and the like. It's a tough line to find - on the one extreme you end up with a generalized "combat" skill covering EVERYTHING, on the other you are digging into the weeds. I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers, or the "one true way" - and how I would game it now is significantly different than what I would have done 30 years ago, or probably what I'll think five years hence.
 
In regard to weapon non proficiency, I'd say it would depend on both the familiarity the character has with the weapon type or sub type, and let's call it the tech tree from which the weapon was developed or evolved from.

It's quite possible that a Vargr developed revolver functions and handles significantly different from a Solomani semi automatic pistol, so it requires a significant amount of time for even a practiced shooter to figure out how it works.
 
In regard to weapon non proficiency, I'd say it would depend on both the familiarity the character has with the weapon type or sub type, and let's call it the tech tree from which the weapon was developed or evolved from.

It's quite possible that a Vargr developed revolver functions and handles significantly different from a Solomani semi automatic pistol, so it requires a significant amount of time for even a practiced shooter to figure out how it works.

There have been a couple of cases of people attempting to use a semi-automatic pistol with "0" weapons skill who did not know that you have to pull back the slide to chamber a round to fire.

As for a revolver, I have seen people who only have experience with semi-automatic pistols be totally confused as to how to load or reload a single-action Colt or Ruger revolver patterned after the Frontier Colt, and a couple did not even understand that they had to manually cock the hammer back. As for a percussion revolver, not using metallic cartridges, they would not have a clue as to how to reload it.
 
My estimate of an effective governing radius of 30 to 40 parsecs was based on having Express Boats capable of Jump-4, with an average weekly travel of 2.6 parsecs. However, if you consider that when the Vland Empire started, they were using Jump=1, the effective governing radius shrinks drastically. I assume for any sort of remotely effective government, a communications lag of six months, three out and three back. That is probably pushing it, but if might work, if the more distant planets have a fair amount of self-rule. Using Jump-1 ships, even with some form of drop tanks for deep space jumps, the control radius is 12 parsecs, so maybe 4 or 5 sub-sectors. With Jump-4 Express boats, your Empire might be able to govern a Sector, but not much more.
 
The Vilani Imperium was jump 2 - it was the upgrade to jump 2 which was one of the factors that triggered the consolidation wars which was a thousand year period of Vilani aggression to 'unite' its previously peaceful trading and exploration hegemony.

The Ziru Sirka was not declared until the conclusion of the consolidation wars.
 
There have been a couple of cases of people attempting to use a semi-automatic pistol with "0" weapons skill who did not know that you have to pull back the slide to chamber a round to fire.

As for a revolver, I have seen people who only have experience with semi-automatic pistols be totally confused as to how to load or reload a single-action Colt or Ruger revolver patterned after the Frontier Colt, and a couple did not even understand that they had to manually cock the hammer back. As for a percussion revolver, not using metallic cartridges, they would not have a clue as to how to reload it.

But how long do you think that would have lasted?

It's one thing not being able to pick the weapon up out of a drawer and blindly use it, especially under stress. But if you plonked the thing in front of them and left the room for 15m, you think they'd be proficient with it (ie. able to chamber and fire it)?
 
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