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A couple questions brought about by FFE005

T. Foster

SOC-13
I picked up FFE005 this weekend at the FLGS (awesome, well worth the wait -- a couple of the plates are dark, but legible enough for me) and was inspired to resume my long on-hiatus (since 1999) reworking of Traveller's combat system, and have a couple of questions (I may have more later).

1) In AHL there's a rule that exploding rounds (HE, HEAP, fusion & plasma guns) bump damage up 1 step (Light Wounds become Serious Wounds and Serious Wounds become death). Striker has the same rule but adds lasers to the list of 'explosive round' weapons. Obviously, this greatly affects the effectiveness of laser weapons, and I'm wondering how others treat this discrepancy: should lasers get this damage bonus or not?

2) In trying to come up with a task (MT-system) for throwing hand grenades, I came up with the crackpot notion of using "Dex, Forward Obs (Unskilled OK)." This has a couple of benefits: 1) it differentiates throwing grenades from just plain "throwing objects for distance," and 2) it allows a situation where Forward Observer skill might actually be useful in a game. My question is: is this justifiable? What sort of expertise does 'Forward Observer skill' actually provide? Any ex-military types able to provide any insight?

3) (not a question, but an observation) I noticed once again while doing this (as I had previously with char-gen, tasks, and experience/improvement) that content-wise MegaTraveller is actually very close to what I am trying to accomplish (consistent integration of AHL and Striker with Traveller's skills/tasks systems) but that the execution is a disaster, and only after comparing the MT rules side-by-side with their CT source-material am I finally able to make sense of them and see what the MT designers/editors actually had in mind.

Particularly juicy example: MT has an extended section on 'Visibility and Spotting' which consists of several paragraphs lifted almost word-for-word from Striker about when spotting is necessary and how to represent unspotted units on the playing surface, but then inexplicably cuts off before giving the tasks that actually tell HOW to spot a concealed unit*! That section always greatly confused me and I felt like I must be missing something, and now I know: I WAS! (Luckily, with Striker as a guideline and my familiarity with the MT task system, I was able come up with a task on my own -- any frustrated MTers who want to see my Spotting tasks, just let me know...).

*technically, there IS a Spotting task under Recon in the skills chapter, but it's a very poorly-designed task: it's Difficult and requires Hunting skill (which almost no characters will have), meaning that 90% or so of the time spotting an enemy unit would be a Formidable task -- and no adjustments at all for targets' distance, size, movement, or activity!
 
I've been wrestling with some of the same issues in cobbling together my own CT/Striker hybrid combat system based on an article in the JTAS about integrating armor penetration into CT combat. So, here are some of my thoughts for what its worth.

1. I am only using the damage increase (1 step or +3 to penetration) for HE rounds. I figured this is designed to reflect the unique effect of concusion damage that can wound without actually penetrating armor. Though using it for lasers would make Reflec and Ablat more valuable as armor types in theory.

2. Hand Grenades. I would use combat rifleman skill. This is a "combat skill" that is taught to soldiers at the basic level and re-enforced by practice in tactial units with periodic "sustainment training". I would roll all of those combat skills under Combat Rifleman. I use combat rifleman as a modifier to finding cover as well. Forward Observer is training in estimating range, designating targets, and the proceedures of calling for support fire.
Second note on grenades: They are mainly intended to stun the enemy. If they happen to wound as well, then that is a bonus. I would sharply reduce the probability of causing wounds, but have them "stun" a target for a period if the attack is successful. Also, the effects are magnified when the target is in an enclosed space. The idea is to throw the grenade just before you rush the enemy to stun them so they can't fire on you as you close on them or enter a room. (of course, wait till the grenade has gone off before attempting this...)

3. As to spotting and such, why not just use the Striker spotting table as a baseline or task dificulty? Just a thought.

Hope it Helps,

Rob Whiting

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Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the law commands.
 
Thanks for the responses.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ranger:
2. Hand Grenades. I would use combat rifleman skill. This is a "combat skill" that is taught to soldiers at the basic level and re-enforced by practice in tactial units with periodic "sustainment training". I would roll all of those combat skills under Combat Rifleman. I use combat rifleman as a modifier to finding cover as well. Forward Observer is training in estimating range, designating targets, and the proceedures of calling for support fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good idea of using Cbt Rifleman as a military 'catch-all' skill. I guess Forward Observer is doomed to uselessness after all. How a 'skill' of such limited application has been with us since Book 1 is something of a mystery, and I suspect the answer has something to do with Marc Miller being an artilleryman in the US Army...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Second note on grenades: They are mainly intended to stun the enemy. If they happen to wound as well, then that is a bonus. I would sharply reduce the probability of causing wounds, but have them "stun" a target for a period if the attack is successful. Also, the effects are magnified when the target is in an enclosed space. The idea is to throw the grenade just before you rush the enemy to stun them so they can't fire on you as you close on them or enter a room. (of course, wait till the grenade has gone off before attempting this...)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very interesting point which AFAIK isn't reflected in the current rules. There is the rule about 'unconsciousness' for Lightly Wounded characters, though (it's in AHL, I'm not sure if it's also in Striker or not): basically, any time a character suffers a LW he has to make a roll to stay conscious, and if it fails he's unconscious until he can make another roll to regain consciousness (checked at the start of each round). Of course, Traveller already has a rule for unconsciousness (0 in a stat), but I liked this rule and kept it as 'stunning.'

This could be easily adapted to work for grenades (and other explosions?): perhaps require a stunning check for everyone in the Burst Area, even those with a 'No effect' damage result, and/or make the task to avoid stunning harder (I've got it Simple now; make it Routine). I like the sound of this; I'll have to add it in and see how it plays. Thanks for the insight!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3. As to spotting and such, why not just use the Striker spotting table as a baseline or task dificulty? Just a thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's what I ended up doing, but since one of my primary aims was to make everything self-consistent I wanted a way to express this task using the format of the MT task system. It wasn't too hard to convert (which IMO is the beauty of the MT task system -- NOTHING is too hard to convert).
 
Forward Observer:

I've got to say I've had a long chain of good use for Forward Obrserver skill in my games.

In a MT campaign years ago it was a crucial factor in allowing the PC's to use starship weaponry against enemy vehicles. Having someone able to target a starship missile against an enemy Gcarrier is absolutely useful!

Currrently, I 'm running a T20 play-test campaign and it prooved absolutely vital in the last game:
The players were leading a 20-man force against some enemies dug in around a farm. The enemies had RAM rifle grenades and when the players tried to use their Light Artillery piece for direct fire, the RAM grenades caused a lot of grief, damaged the gun and wounded the gunners. They patched up the gun, moved to behind a hill and used a Forward Observer to call in the shots onto the enemy bunkers without risking RAM fire.
They would have lost without it.

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrSkull:
Forward Observer:

I've got to say I've had a long chain of good use for Forward Obrserver skill in my games.

<snip anecdotes>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it's just the type of games I've run --primarily merchants, diplomats, or scouts; I've never run a true military-oriented campaign. It seems we've always got some ex-army guy serving as deckhand/gunner/security/whatever who's got 2 or 3 points in Forward Observer and nothing whatsoever to observe...
 
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