Your characters Psionic? Are they also criminals?

[carlparl]

I remember once where my players wanted to find the Psionic Institute a whole lot. When they finally found it, one of the players got tested and showed some promise, so they scraped up the money to pay for training. After getting the money, the Institute packed up and disappeared. It wasn't a real Psionic Institute, just a scam that ripped off psi wannabes. I don't remember if they had a real psi doing the work, or if they just faked it all to pull their scam. But it was fun, and very upsetting for the players that got ripped off.

 

[HiverLord]

I'm running a campaign where one of the two characters started as an underground psionic on Regina, then spent a term in the Imperial Navy. He's been out a year now, and is 'just' starting to get use to the idea that the Navy doesn't have psionics detectors all over it's ships and bases, guarding against the Zho's (or so the character was told/shown, anyway...)
Now that he's more comfortable with 'open' psionics use, he's starting to use his powers more often, but is still careful about it...
The other character, a former scout with a scout/courier, is finding his partner's abilities to be very useful, and is now considering psi testing...
I wonder what sort of trouble the Imperials will whip up for them, if they ever find out... :devil:

 

[Ran Targas]

I'm not a big fan of the concept that Psi talent can be detected electronically; seems too clinical. I've always treated Psi talent IMTU sort of like in "The Shining" where only other Psi's can really determine talent in another without actually witnessing some sort of psionic manifestation on the part of the user. So, in order for the 3I to detect and monitor the activity of Psi's, they have to have a few of their own and those are on a tight leash.

So, being a big fan of B5, I borrowed the Psi Cops, sprinkled in a little Darth Vader, and got a squad of Psi working for the Ministry of Intelligence who prowl the Marches invading others' minds and privacy for the safety of the Imperium. A lucky Psi will see them by their aura long before they are seen, if only because they project a red sphere around them like the Super Dome. But a Psi on the run projects a unique aura of their own, making them easy to track. So once they get you, and they always get you, they psionically break down any defenses you have and rummage through your mind like a box of old photos, looking for signs of Zhodani influence. If they don't find any and you pass a genetic test for any Zhondai markers, you may be recruited, allowed to take debilitating anti-psi drugs for the rest of your life, or maybe just lobotomized and left in a nice, quiet ward in some out of the way hospital. Sinister, but it's for the greater good of the 3I, right?

 

[rancke]

I'm not a big fan of the concept that Psi talent can be detected electronically; seems too clinical. I've always treated Psi talent IMTU sort of like in "The Shining" where only other Psi's can really determine talent in another without actually witnessing some sort of psionic manifestation on the part of the user. So, in order for the 3I to detect and monitor the activity of Psi's, they have to have a few of their own and those are on a tight leash.

IMTU I do have a test for psionic potential, but it has a considerable number of false positives and false negatives. The Imperial services administer the test to every recruit disguised as some sort of routine brain scan. Those that test positive are dismissed on some pretext, then contacted later by one of the spook outfits and given an extensive test. Those that really do have psionic potential are trained and put to work. Once they've served for 30 years, they're allowed to retire and left alone as long as they keep a low profile. Unless their outfit finds a sudden need to reactivate them...

The false negatives, of course, allow for ex-military PCs with psionic potential.


Hans

 

[Ran Targas]

Very devious Hans ... I like it.

 

[jatay3]

I don't want people spying on me in the privacy of my home, but I don't advocate persecuting spyware manufacturers. Nor do I want to be shot by a sniper, but I don't advocate cutting the index finger off gifted marksmen.


Just as the existence of smart people is rather hard luck on averagely and less-than-averagely intelligent people.

By persecuting all psis, the worlds of the Imperium have put themselves in a position where they can't use lawabiding psis to police criminal psis. When you criminalize psionics only criminals will use psionics. It's not only morally indefensible, it's stupid too.


Hans

The point was not "Psionics should be persecuted." The point was, "the point of view of mundanes is dismissed to easily" and was referring to sci-fi in general not to Imperial policy in traveller.
As for spyware manufacturers, there is at least some argument for regulation. And the comparison of psis with "smart people" is meaningless and besides comes off as making psionics a sublimination of nerd-angst which in fact does seem like a rather notable use of psionics in contempary sci fi. A psionic is someone who can look inside your mind without you being able to know it, not someone who is "smart". As in, someone who can know, and in some versions will automatically know, what you thought of Susy Jo last year.
My point was simply that it might be better, if one is going to use psis to have an honest exploration as to why mundanes feel nervous instead of dismissing them as bigots. The point is not to be unsympathetic with psis. The point is to also be sympathetic with mundanes.

 

[rancke]

The point was not "Psionics should be persecuted." The point was, "the point of view of mundanes is dismissed to easily" and was referring to sci-fi in general not to Imperial policy in traveller.

Sci-fi in general is so broad a case as to be meaningless. In some books psionics are feared the way you describe. In others they are policed by other psis. In some the general public don't even know they exist, in others they are known to confer great benefits on society and lauded and coddled by the general public.

And even in an IMTU thread, discussing how things work in a non-Traveller context seems out of context.

As for spyware manufacturers, there is at least some argument for regulation.

You seem to be conflating "regulation" and "persecution" here. I don't advocate absolving spyware manufacturers of all regulation, I point out that I don't think they deserve to be persecuted. In the OTU Imperium, mundanes are persecuting psis, not regulating them. I think that mundanes who persecute psis are acting opprobriously; I don't think the same is true of mundanes who favor policing psis.

And the comparison of psis with "smart people" is meaningless and besides comes off as making psionics a sublimination of nerd-angst which in fact does seem like a rather notable use of psionics in contempary sci fi. A psionic is someone who can look inside your mind without you being able to know it...

Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who can't.

...not someone who is "smart".

Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who are less smart.

My point was simply that it might be better, if one is going to use psis to have an honest exploration as to why mundanes feel nervous instead of dismissing them as bigots. The point is not to be unsympathetic with psis. The point is to also be sympathetic with mundanes.

I'm not dismissing people who feel nervous as bigots; I'm dismissing people who allow their fears to make them persecute innocent people as bigots.


Hans

 

[jatay3]

Sci-fi in general is so broad a case as to be meaningless. In some books psionics are feared the way you describe. In others they are policed by other psis. In some the general public don't even know they exist, in others they are known to confer great benefits on society and lauded and coddled by the general public.

And even in an IMTU thread, discussing how things work in a non-Traveller context seems out of context.


You seem to be conflating "regulation" and "persecution" here. I don't advocate absolving spyware manufacturers of all regulation, I point out that I don't think they deserve to be persecuted. In the OTU Imperium, mundanes are persecuting psis, not regulating them. I think that mundanes who persecute psis are acting opprobriously; I don't think the same is true of mundanes who favor policing psis.


Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who can't.


Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who are less smart.


I'm not dismissing people who feel nervous as bigots; I'm dismissing people who allow their fears to make them persecute innocent people as bigots.


Hans

Very well fine enough. Though it is not necessary for it to be possible to ACCIDENTLY aquire psionic powers.

In any case the Traveller way to do it was well done from the literary point of view. In the Imperium psis are persecuted by mundanes; in Zho-space, mundanes are tyranized by psis. As for discussing whether it is right, that is a limited point. The Imperium should have flaws.

 

[jatay3]

One modification I did make was that in the local corner of IMTU(which is outside the Imperium) empaths are respected for medical and negotiating occupations, but it needs rather close contact to apply and can be sensed right away. As well as proper training. Zho-style psionics is considered tyrannical.
The reason for this is multiple. One is that I started liking the treecats of Honor Harrington. The other is that I needed a gimmick for a character whose most dramatic role so far was as a damsel-in-distress.
So psionics are not common IMTU. The Zho are a foreign power. And psionics is rare at home and usually little developed.

Also I was more interested in developing a Minbari-style* honor society(for Minbari are like many real human societies; even if they have only interesting vices like spectacular cruelty and don't seem to have prosaic vices like litter), that could truly exist in human culture given the assumption of a Traveller environment but a human nature of limited mutability. I had in developing a trait that would effectively turn humans into aliens. That of course is also a very interesting exercise; just one I would prefer to leave to someone else. Psionics are just to difficult to put into my environment beyond a limited degree.

As far as persecution of psis within the Imperium, that just didn't interest me as a theme. It is ok as a background, not least because prevents the danger of the Imperium becoming a Mary Sue. It is simply not a theme I am interested in.

 

[jatay3]

Sci-fi in general is so broad a case as to be meaningless. In some books psionics are feared the way you describe. In others they are policed by other psis. In some the general public don't even know they exist, in others they are known to confer great benefits on society and lauded and coddled by the general public.

And even in an IMTU thread, discussing how things work in a non-Traveller context seems out of context.


You seem to be conflating "regulation" and "persecution" here. I don't advocate absolving spyware manufacturers of all regulation, I point out that I don't think they deserve to be persecuted. In the OTU Imperium, mundanes are persecuting psis, not regulating them. I think that mundanes who persecute psis are acting opprobriously; I don't think the same is true of mundanes who favor policing psis.


Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who can't.


Thus giving him an unfair advantage over those who are less smart.


I'm not dismissing people who feel nervous as bigots; I'm dismissing people who allow their fears to make them persecute innocent people as bigots.


Hans

My point was simply that the difficulties are to easily dismissed. Psionics are not "smart" people; smart people do not do harm merely by being smart. They have to choose to do so and dislike of smart people as such is simply envy. But the existence of psionics makes them a threat because it effects others. And that would have to be accounted for reasonably. And much sci-fi doesn't do that.

Take the B5 universe. Susan's mother is portrayed as a great injustice. Yet when you examine it it looks more like a great tragedy then a great injustice. An untrained psi in the B5 verse is automatically a cognitive kleptomaniac. No one seems to have figured out a way to avoid it. The regulations Earthgov gave were as compassionate and fair as could be arranged under the circumstances; either take medication or submit to being trained. They are also roughly the same laws that would likely be given to a kleptomaniac in real life; maybe he "can't help it" but what he can't help is a dangerous problem. And they are almost certainly the laws that would be given if there were real psionics. A real psi that cannot or will not avoid reading others minds may not be a criminal but they would necessarily have to be considered the equiv of being dangerously insane.

Now the Traveller universe does well by presenting both sides. In a universe with widespread psionics, lack of regulation would inevitably make psis a ruling class. At the same time and almost as inevitably, an attempt to regulate would evolve into panic and persecution, especially when there is a powerful psionic enemy across the border. Presenting the complexity of this difficulty was a fine bit of writing.

 

[childofloki]

First time posting, thought this was interesting enough to throw in my 2 cents.

IMTU, I use D20 modern/future for the majority of the rules and am using psionics modified from T20. While I don't use canon, I based the map on Terran Confederation era. Im using PsiCorps from B5, as others have said, but more in the sense of Full Metal Alchemist. PsiCorps is a sort of military arm, psionic police force, and regulatory body. Psionics are still little understood and sometimes feared but not demonized, prejudiced, and suppressed. A citizen is RECOMMENDED to get thier psionic abilities registered, but can still legally use them as long as they are not blatantly obvious or used in the commission of a crime. Every major world has at least a small branch office - for investigating/enforcement of psi crime, registration, and recruitment. Even a small colony of 1000+ might still have at least one PsiCorps "deputy".

In game terms, the only thing a psionic PC might have to fear is using talents during a crime. Blatant use of obvious talents without registration will merely cause some scared citizen to report it, resulting in a fine. Admittedly, some fines can get so large, recruitment seems like a better and cheaper option.

There are several private organisations scattered throughout human space that undertake psionic training, completion of which automatically grants registration.

 

[salochin999]

IMTU the Imperium is caught between fear and desire of the potential power of psionics.

They don't want a flood of psionics they can't control so overt psionics is illegal but a branch of the Imperial secret service runs the covert psionics institutute and uses it as a mouse trap to keep tabs on psions. Those with weak powers are simply put on a database and ignored while those with strong powers and a stable personality (I like to pair psionic ability with a roll on a Cthulhu like mental instability table) are given a choice: work for the Imperium or else. The end result of this is:

minor powers

1) lots of minor psions wandering around untrained

2) lots of minor psions with very minor powers leading a normal life and hiding their special talent

average and above

3) 2/3 of the psions with more than minor powers feel a strong urge to seek out and find the psionic institute for training

3a) half end up working for the Imperium or other powerful individuals or orgs allied to the Imperium but kept on a tight leash

3b) the half who found the psionics institute but refuse to sign up end up in prison or being experimented on in research labs or possibly having their talents used non-consensually e.g. Baron Harkonnen using an empath as a kind of food taster

4) The ones who got away from the psionics institute and the ones who guessed it was a trap before hand are termed wild psions and are either in hiding or on the run

4a) a significant percentage of these wild psions are mentally unstable (as a side effect) and/or dangerous criminals (cos power corrupts) or both

4b) the most stable / least criminal wild psions tend to hide out on a wilderness planet somewhere water farming or taming Banthas

4c) wild psions who are only mildly criminal / unstable also tend to avoid the main planets but move around a lot as gamblers/conmen etc

4d) the previous two types are the other source of training

very strong talent

5) naturally really powerful psions can self train but they are all crazy - not necessarily in a bad way but crazy.

#

(As you can probably tell MTU is kind of pre Warhammer40K or pre Star Wars where this psi stuff is just beginning.)

 

[Jason M Durkish]

In my universe pictulary in the Commonwealth .
Having psionics will not make you a criminal .
But using psionic powers to commit crimes will make you a criminal .
In the Collective you will be a criminal if you are not a member of the Psionic Commune .
And the Cthuli kill all non priest cast psionics they capture and aslo they kill all priest cast members who convert to a non Cthuli religion sponsored discovery and capture .

 

[WistfulD]

In my game, psionics are abilities, it is their use that is controlled/an opportunity to break the law. Of course, if you have weaponizable psi abilities, you can basically never go anywhere where you would have to disarm yourself to enter. Some abilities are effectively never illegal ("how dare you use your awareness to survive that hull breach?!"), others, like teleportation, you basically have to use to commit a crime with for it to be a crime. Telepathy, which is the one people usually want, is considered an invasive, potentially damaging act. Thus it can only really be used where that would be acceptable, which is pretty much just therapy or as an officer of the court. Can't even use it on consenting individuals outside of a therapeutic environment (kinda like putting a knife in someone--only okay if the knife is a scalpel and you are a surgeon performing a called-for procedure).

 

[kilemall]

One way to keep the bugaboo of psionics under control is not have an overarching one stop training/operations org, but each org with a psionic component has only ONE set of powers it knows and can pass on.