Vilani in Your Traveller Universe

[aramis]

huh. I've never heard anyone say they want to play such a vilani. not here, not in my games, not in anyone else's games. never heard any mention of 120 year old vilani admirals with fleet tactics 9, or any vilani marines with combat rifle 12, or any vilani scouts with pilot 8. did I just miss it somehow?

how many task systems could accommodate such skill levels? player gets ready to roll dice, referee says, "don't bother ...."

I've had entire parties of Vilani. The skill limit in MT is the primary factor preventing them from being total ubermenschen.

As it is, in the right careers, 200+ YO Generals are quite possible. Vilani die by hazard, not old age, given the CT/MT CGen numbers.

I have seen a 250 YO PC. 33 terms.

As for "not in CT"??? look at some of the Emperor's list, and note that none of them rise above a +3...
There are likely some Vilani in M1200 who remember not only the 5FW, but the SRW, first hand.

 

[Meteoric Assault]

I've had entire parties of Vilani. The skill limit in MT is the primary factor preventing them from being total ubermenschen.

As it is, in the right careers, 200+ YO Generals are quite possible. Vilani die by hazard, not old age, given the CT/MT CGen numbers.

I have seen a 250 YO PC. 33 terms.

As for "not in CT"??? look at some of the Emperor's list, and note that none of them rise above a +3...
There are likely some Vilani in M1200 who remember not only the 5FW, but the SRW, first hand.

give me some of those longevity genes.... and skinny ones too?

 

[flykiller]

I have seen a 250 YO PC. 33 terms.

in a game? traveller characters come with a past but in such a case the past would completely outweigh and dominate the immediate game. how did you handle that?

heh. throw in some cybernetics and you no longer have a human game.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Consider if descriptions and labels of the DGP book ARE correct:
DM Label
+5 Bloodline Known For Longevity
+4 Average Pure Bloodline
Pre-Spaceflight there are NO MIXED Vilani/non-Vilani bloodlines. Genetically pure Vilani live to 130 (as described just one paragraph above).

Now simply combine:

• Avoiding Death from the Ancients war machines for thousands of years - be careful and you don't die
• Longevity - the Vilani don't know pre-spaceflight that they live longer than other humans, but in general the more careful live longer
• Caste society starting with the shulgasi - listen to your elders/ruling caste and you do not starve

Mix and stir...I think they ARE careful

 

[kilemall]

I've had entire parties of Vilani. The skill limit in MT is the primary factor preventing them from being total ubermenschen.

As it is, in the right careers, 200+ YO Generals are quite possible. Vilani die by hazard, not old age, given the CT/MT CGen numbers.

I have seen a 250 YO PC. 33 terms.

As for "not in CT"??? look at some of the Emperor's list, and note that none of them rise above a +3...
There are likely some Vilani in M1200 who remember not only the 5FW, but the SRW, first hand.

That would assist in explaining the continuity of government and a desire not to change things quickly.

It also means that with TL15 you would have some people picked out for preservation, who would in the Vilani case likely be cultural conduits and touchstones, but maybe a few that are in the same league as the "agent of the Imperium" in dangerous abilities, and working for Bureau interests.

That, and marriage and children have to be like Tolkien's elves, very few kids per pairing, else Vilani space would be overrun with population, and so child rearing is likely VERY focused, planned, and limited culturally.

Whew, also means you could easily know your great-great-great grandfather.

Gift giving for Holiday must be a very intense and expensive thing for Vilani.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

in a game? traveller characters come with a past but in such a case the past would completely outweigh and dominate the immediate game. how did you handle that?

You are talking about game balance. That is the GMs task. However...

• Look at the DMs to see how pure Vilani pure your bloodline is. Except for the government type, they are all geographical. So, basically it is very rare to be pure Vilani you were not born in the right place.
• Enforce the cultural stereotype in character generation
• The re-enlistment rolls are not subject to DMs. Enforce it, no mercy. If you are using Mongoose 1st Ed, you have to roll higher than the number of terms served or you are out
• Enforce the cultural stereotype during play. "This is not my job, I don't think I should be doing this."

Why not then? Or is your player a munchkin?

 

[aramis]

You are talking about game balance. That is the GMs task. However...

• Look at the DMs to see how pure Vilani pure your bloodline is. Except for the government type, they are all geographical. So, basically it is very rare to be pure Vilani you were not born in the right place.
• Enforce the cultural stereotype in character generation
• The re-enlistment rolls are not subject to DMs. Enforce it, no mercy. If you are using Mongoose 1st Ed, you have to roll higher than the number of terms served or you are out
• Enforce the cultural stereotype during play. "This is not my job, I don't think I should be doing this."

Why not then? Or is your player a munchkin?

Citing Mongoose rules in support of the OTU is a BAD IDEA... many things are not congruent with "real editions"...
Climbing reenlistment and promotion linked to reenlistment being major disconnects.

In CT, MT, TNE, T4, and T20, reenlistment is a flat number, never changes. In MT, brownie points can be earned and used on reenlistments, so it's quite possible to push a few extra enlistments.

The REAL limiter is the fact that, in MT, you cannot have more total levels than the sum of Intelligence and Education. Which, typically, will be in the above 12 range for long-lived characters... so at the end of generation, when you trim back, a lot of the skills are at level 0... which is a better thing in MT than in MGT, as it's saving a 4 point shift instead of a 3 point one, and slightly lower TN's by difficulty, too. It's quite possible to have a vilani character using advanced CGen with most of the skill list... at level 0. Their specialty will be stupidly high; MT has a max DM from (Stat/5 round down)+Skill of DM+8. But the vilani character has to keep buying it... so it gets nerfed down to level 5,6,7,or 8 (depending upon current att) by sane players.

They don't dominate because they suck at everything except their specialty. Still, you don't want to meet a Vilani brawling specialist. (Had a 10 term Merchant who was FFFEE2, Brawling 8, Gunnery - Beam 1, Gunnery Missile 1, Streetwise 1, Rifleman 1.)

Sure, he could break your neck easily, and sold off his 10 surplus weapons (24 MOB rolls)... but he was pretty worthless at anything else. A whole party of one-trick ponies...

I'd have to check to see if they can career hop.

 

[Vargas]

The REAL limiter is the fact that, in MT, you cannot have more total levels than the sum of Intelligence and Education.

. . .

They don't dominate because they suck at everything except their specialty. Still, you don't want to meet a Vilani brawling specialist. (Had a 10 term Merchant who was FFFEE2, Brawling 8, Gunnery - Beam 1, Gunnery Missile 1, Streetwise 1, Rifleman 1.)

Personally, as referee I would put the breaks on aggressive overspecialization like that.

 

[flykiller]

Personally, as referee I would put the breaks on aggressive overspecialization like that.

"overspecialization" would be a concept of normal humans. the vilani characters being discussed here are not normal humans, and given their description here their "overspecialization" isn't.

and "putting the brakes" on vilani development means their capabilities are 1) advertised but 2) not permitted. which seems silly.

You are talking about game balance.

yeah, and I want to know where that balance is. I don't see how any kind of balance is possible within a typical traveller setting, the balance seems to lay outside of that.

That is the GMs task.

yeah, and I want to know how (if) he did it.

 

[aramis]

yeah, and I want to know how (if) he did it.

I don't worry about "balance". In an all-vilani party, the threat of aging isn't, so 7-10 term characters tend to be the norm played, and everyone wants to use the brownie points in order to stay in service longer.

Any attempt at balance for a party i a fool's errand. As long as each player gets screen time and each player has contributions to make, I'm good with it

 

[flykiller]

I don't worry about "balance".

excellent! let the nukes fall where they may!

Any attempt at balance for a party i a fool's errand.

agreed, but that's not what I asked. 10 terms, that's 40 years! how did you deal with all their (equally long-lived) families? 30-year-old children with careers of their own? business partners and associates? significant others? comrades-in-arms? allies? nemeses? how did you incorporate all that history into a human-level game? good grief, how did you incorporate their 4000 year old culture that they deliberately drag around with them like a ball and chain? geez, how could you even get the game started - "you're all in a bar and overhear some guy talking"? or would it start with 10 acolytes walking up, "grand poobah level 12 karate kick-ass, we come seeking instruction, calling upon our family ties and obligations that go back 2000 years"? or would it start with, "your ancestor is responsible for the defeat of the vilani by terra, today is the day of judgement, prepare to meet your doom!"?

or are they just solomani with special rules allowing 10 tours?

 

[aramis]

excellent! let the nukes fall where they may!



agreed, but that's not what I asked. 10 terms, that's 40 years! how did you deal with all their (equally long-lived) families? 30-year-old children with careers of their own? business partners and associates? significant others? comrades-in-arms? allies? nemeses? how did you incorporate all that history into a human-level game? good grief, how did you incorporate their 4000 year old culture that they deliberately drag around with them like a ball and chain? geez, how could you even get the game started - "you're all in a bar and overhear some guy talking"? or would it start with 10 acolytes walking up, "grand poobah level 12 karate kick-ass, we come seeking instruction, calling upon our family ties and obligations that go back 2000 years"? or would it start with, "your ancestor is responsible for the defeat of the vilani by terra, today is the day of judgement, prepare to meet your doom!"?

or are they just solomani with special rules allowing 10 tours?

I simply let them define as appropriate.
Note that I used contacts ripped from TNE, so they had 10 contacts to firm up. Kids were up to them. Parents, well, one had a mother who was a grand admiral with 18 terms...

 

[kilemall]

Hmm, a series of 100+ active superexperts that are forgetting their worldly skills in favor of their main ones puts me in mind of a martial arts monastery/dojo where the masters seek to break the bounds of their discipline and a new generation struggles to learn what their masters can teach.

 

[mike wightman]

Specialisation into one narrow field may also help explain Vilani technological conservatism and stagnation.
TL breakthroughs may require the sort of out of the box thinking that specialists can not bring themselves to do. They are also reluctant to share their 'secrets' with those specialising in a different technological area.

 

[Quint]

Specialisation into one narrow field may also help explain Vilani technological conservatism and stagnation.
TL breakthroughs may require the sort of out of the box thinking that specialists can not bring themselves to do. They are also reluctant to share their 'secrets' with those specialising in a different technological area.

This.

And, amusingly, forget the Daryens as "space elves" it's clearly the Vilani...

Honestly, I have been on the fence about including the canon races IMTU (I have one player that really likes the Aslan, and Vargr are so darn ubiquitous...) but this spin on the Vilani is one that I'd never really figured out - and I like it!

Hmmm...

D.

 

[flykiller]

I simply let them define as appropriate.

ah, so ... solomani with extra terms and a buffet of cultural artifacts of their choosing. yeah, that could work. wouldn't it be easier though just to call them renegade vilani? that way the characters, rather than the players, are in fact picking and choosing what they will and will not acknowledge.

with attendant consequences, of course ....

imtu I have an entire culture that is ethnically vilani but that specifically rejects vilani culture. they're aggressive, sneaky, and challenging of everything that approaches them.

 

[aramis]

ah, so ... solomani with extra terms and a buffet of cultural artifacts of their choosing. yeah, that could work. wouldn't it be easier though just to call them renegade vilani? that way the characters, rather than the players, are in fact picking and choosing what they will and will not acknowledge.

with attendant consequences, of course ....

imtu I have an entire culture that is ethnically vilani but that specifically rejects vilani culture. they're aggressive, sneaky, and challenging of everything that approaches them.

Nope. Any player doing the "Solomoni with extra terms" approach doesn't get to keep the character, and they aren't defining as appropriate.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

A genetically impure "Solomani", bearing the longevity markers of the obviously substandard Vilani, would not rise high in the Party!

Begone! We cast thee out! Solomani über alles!

:coffeegulp:

 

[maksimsmelchak]

A genetically impure "Solomani", bearing the longevity markers of the obviously substandard Vilani, would not rise high in the Party!

Begone! We cast thee out! Solomani über alles!

:coffeegulp:

Nathan,

*** What do you think a good Anglic motto for the Confederation would be? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[mike wightman]

In 3000 years no one will be speaking German or English in any recognisable form...