X-boat stops

[kaladorn]

Is there (somewhere) a list of X-boat stops in the Spinward Marches?

By that, I mean that the map shows us where the routes go, but I'm assuming that the J4 X-boats jump over some of those planets - so that means that only some of the places the routes pass through (graphically speaking) actually handle X-boats.

I'm interested to know how I figure out where the X-boat stations are laid out.

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn wrote:

"Is there (somewhere) a list of X-boat stops in the Spinward Marches?"


Mr. Barclay,

The map in CT's 'Spinward Marches Campaign' shows x-boat routes for the sector. IIRC, CT's TTA has x-boat routes for the Aramis subsector too.

BTW, the Spinward Marches boasts the only known FIVE parsec x-boat route between the maddening system of Tenalphi and the more normal system of Strouden.

"By that, I mean that the map shows us where the routes go, but I'm assuming that the J4 X-boats jump over some of those planets - so that means that only some of the places the routes pass through (graphically speaking) actually handle X-boats."

Like you, I've always assumed the x-boats jump through most systems. I've never read or seen anything to the contrary either.

"I'm interested to know how I figure out where the X-boat stations are laid out."

ISTR a x-boat route table that laid out the die roll required for a given x-boat route to exist modified by distance and starport type. I cannot find that table in either LBB:3 Worlds & Adventures or LBB:6 Scouts. Those two CT books only discuss communication routes in general terms and leave the existence of any up to the GM. Perhaps the table is in one of the three MT books? Or perhaps I've been hallucinating again?


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
I'm interested to know how I figure out where the X-boat stations are laid out.

Well, if you go by the routes on the map, just assume the routes skip any world that you wouldn't think rated an X-boat station of its own. (The real problem is figuring out why some of the punk worlds that are shown to have stations, have them.

If you want something that makes sense, I suggest the following:

Rate all worlds according to how much they would rate an X-boat link. Something like this, perhaps (A is highest priority)::
A: Sector capitals
B: Subsector capitals and all high-population worlds with Class A starports.
C: Medium population worlds with Class A starports and high-pop with Class B.
D: Low-pop worlds with class A starports, etc.
etc.

Then do the following:

1) Connect all Priority A worlds using the fewest number of jump-4 connections, jumping short only if absolutely necessary. If several different routes will give the same lowest number of jumps, select the one that services the largest number of Priority B worlds. If that results in a tie, chose the one that services the largest number of Priority C, and so on. (Note: If you're only concerned about the Spinward Marches, just draw a line form Mora and out towards the right ).

2) Connect all priority B worlds with the Priority A world that is closest to Capital (That is, if you are connecting a world in Deneb sector you connect it to Deneb even if Mora is closer). Use the same general scheme as above.

3) Connect all priority B worlds if it would allow them to communicate faster than by going through the sector capital (ie. in the Marches you'd connect Trin and Glisten, Glisten and Lunion, Lunion and Regina, Regina and Jewell, and so on.)

You should now have a pretty good X-boat net.


Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

Mr. Barclay,

Berka's excellent webiste has a map of the Marches complete with x-boats routes.

Check out www.zho.berka.com and follow the astrography link.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[flykiller]

I'm interested to know how I figure out where the X-boat stations are laid out.

first you have to decide what your xboat network is and what it is supposed to do. does it represent trade routes? is it an imperial postal service that is mandated to serve everyone? is it strictly imperial, or do corporations and planetary governments have a hand in it? is it strictly for civilians, or does the military use it as well? and if so, how much? is it a political structure that disregards profit in favor of universal communication, or does it strictly follow profits? etc. once you answer those and similar questions then the xboat routes for your traveller universe become fairly obvious.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:

ISTR a x-boat route table that laid out the die roll required for a given x-boat route to exist modified by distance and starport type. I cannot find that table in either LBB:3 Worlds & Adventures or LBB:6 Scouts. Those two CT books only discuss communication routes in general terms and leave the existence of any up to the GM. Perhaps the table is in one of the three MT books? Or perhaps I've been hallucinating again?


Sincerely,
Larsen

Dear Mr Whipsnade,

no you have not imagined it. The table you refer to is on page 2 of LBB3 first edition, I can't find it in any later edition either.

Just to put your mind at rest.

 

[Spinward Scout]

<<<break break START X-BOAT TRANSMISSION>>>

Dear Sir,

A question you ask may have it's roots in the Pony Express of one of the early industrial civilization on Old Terra. Please peruse this excerpt, and if more information is necessary, a linkage to access more information is provided. I hope this helps you make a decision of your mapping problem.

To The Stars!

Sir Dameon Toth

Excerpt Following:
When the Pony Express was in Vogue
--------------------------------------------------
The early coaches of Wells Fargo consumed twenty days to cross from St. Joseph, Missouri, long considered a great outpost of civilization, to Sacramento. But twenty days to the merchants and bankers of the West Coast seemed an eternity, and so a short time before the beginning of the Civil War, the Pony Express came into existence.

Pony Express

<<<END X-BOAT TRANSMISSION>>>

 

[kaladorn]

Interesting comments, but (barring my chance to visit Berka's site) no answer directly.

Let me restate:
1. We know from the maps where the routes in the marches go - that is to say the red lines show us where the Xboats run.
2. Those same maps don't (unless I fail to understand how...) tell us which of the systems the red lines flow through are actual *stops*.

Yes, I can apply my *own* logic to this and decide who should or should not have a stop. Similarly, my own logic could unfuzzle the UWPs of some odd worlds.

However, I was more wondering if there was an OTU answer for this - that is to say, in the many and sundry games and products, has no one ever listed the way stations and transfer points in the Marches?

And I'd be really really interested to see the table from 1st ed LBBs!

Tomb

 

[far-trader]

Ah, I did wonder if you meant Waystations as opposed to the basic Xboat Tender systems.

If that's what you're after my CT Spinward Marches Campaign list them as base code B when paired with a Navy base and W when alone.

Mirriam 0333 B

Flammarion 0930 B

Efate 1705 B

Persephone 2228 W

Katarulu 3032 B

Junidy 3202 W

If I didn't miss any of course.

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn wrote:

"2. Those same maps don't (unless I fail to understand how...) tell us which of the systems the red lines flow through are actual *stops*."


Mr. Barclay,

As usual, I was insufficiently clear.

The map in SMC and the map at zho.berka do show x-boat routes. They also show x-boat stops; unless I have comnpletely missed the mark.

The routes are shown as solid lines, but those lines also terminate inside certain system hexes. We're all familiar with the planet symbols inside system hexes; solid sphere for a hydro rating of +1, circle for a hydro rating of 0, and specks for a planetoid belt. All the x-boat routes shown on the maps I referenced terminate at those planet symbols. I've always assumed that those terminated x-boat route lines mean that those systems are x-boat stations.

Take the Lunion Subsector for example. A x-boat route exists between Lunion and Adabicci. The line marking that route terminates next to the planet symbols in the Lunion and Adabicci hexes while passing completely through the intervening Derchon and Ianic hexes. Another route exists between Adabicci and Ianic. The short line marking that route terminates at the planet symbols in either system hex. If I've been interpreting this correctly for all these years(1), then there is a x-boat station at Lunion, Adabicci, and Ianic and no station at Derchon.


Sincerely,
Larsen

1 - I may have this entirely wrong. I misread HG2's armor rules sometime in the 80s and thought that armor was limited to TL until 2000. D'oh! Hyuck-hyuck-hyuck!

 

[daryen]

As Larsen points out, the maps themselves tell you the X-boat transfer points and way stations.

Every world at the terminus of a green (I thought they were green, not red) X-boat line is a transfer point. This is regardless of bases, startport level, distance to the next world, or even common sense. Every world that has a green X-boat line terminate at it is an X-boat transfer point.

Every world with a red (as opposed to white) scout base is a way station. Do note that way stations are not necessarily X-boat transfer points. (In the aforementioned Lunion sector, Persephone has a way station; Lunion does not.)

For a visual representation of the colors I refer to, go to http://www.spinwardmarches.com and click on "Maps and Data" on the top header bar.

Finally, do note that X-boat routes, especially in the Spinward Marches, do not make any sense. At all. They were (like the worlds themselves) all randomly generated. They don't make sense, they just are. (I would complain more about that, but, after 500 or so years, I would be more suprised if it did make any sense.)

 

[Whipsnade]

daryen wrote:

"For a visual representation of the colors I refer to, go to http://www.spinwardmarches.com and click on "Maps and Data" on the top header bar."


Daryen,

Wow! Those maps are superb. Sadly, I had forgot about that site, even though it's on my links list. D'oh! You can really see the x-boat route lines terminate in each appropriate system hex.

"Finally, do note that X-boat routes, especially in the Spinward Marches, do not make any sense. At all. They were (like the worlds themselves) all randomly generated. They don't make sense, they just are. (I would complain more about that, but, after 500 or so years, I would be more suprised if it did make any sense.)"

An important point. Look at the Adabicci-Ianic route I posted earlier. Ianic has a class E port, no bases, no water, a low population, and very little else going for it. Sure, it's on the border with the Swordies but so are lot's of other, better systems without x-boat links. So why is there a route? There are two answers really; the metagame one and the one a GM will need.

The metagame answer is that the routes were generated randomly and Ianic got one despite all negative DMs stacked against it.

The GM answer will depend on what will work for his group. Perhaps Ianic is the site of a regional IN live fire range and a comm route was needed. It's weak, it doesn't make much sense, but it's an attempt.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[kaladorn]

Meaty!

But, here is where you get problems: Where you've got a vertical line of planets and 'pass through' routes actually pass through the planets.

Case in point:
Pallique (Mora)
Nexine (Mora)
Katarulu (Trin's Veil)

Is Nexine really a stop? Or is it a pass through? The boats are J-4. So it could be a pass over. It has a scout base, but that probably means it gets scout traffic and maybe even Naval couriers. But that doesn't require an X-boat stop.

And there are probably other such cases. Is there no 'official' (no I'm not hung up, just very curious) way to tell if the stop exists for such places? (The ones where it does not pass through the mainworld due to the offset of the two endpoints in different hexrows is much easier to sort out)

Also, I wouldn't be giving credit unless I also noted
A Damn Impressive Map. I have bookmarked the Spinward Marches sight previously mentioned, but this one is even more sweeping and offers some awful neat capabilities in terms of showing trade routes of various volumes and various jump-requirements.

 

[daryen]

There is no truly "official" answer to your question. (I even went and checked my copies of The Traveller Book and the GT Sourcebook.) The implied answer is that any planet terminated to by an X-boat route line is indeed an X-boat transfer point.

Consequently, Nexine is indeed an X-boat transfer point.

Do note that the absolute silliness of the X-boat network so annoyed the authors of TNE that they just abolished them. They ripped those "green lines" right off the maps!

For maps showing the TNE representation, go to http://www.panpub.com/traveller/sectors/.

 

[kaladorn]

Well, that's what I thought. Though I'd still like to see that table from the original LBB #3 that showed what the rolls were to place one.

Like many things in the OTU, they don't make much sense (like many of the UWPs) (and, might I say, some trade routes, starport placements, base placements, etc). But fixing all that would be... not the OTU.

Anyway, I appreciate the info I have been provided with

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:

1 - I may have this entirely wrong. I misread HG2's armor rules sometime in the 80s and thought that armor was limited to TL until 2000. D'oh! Hyuck-hyuck-hyuck!

It is - in TCS.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
But, here is where you get problems: Where you've got a vertical line of planets and 'pass through' routes actually pass through the planets.

Case in point:
Pallique (Mora)
Nexine (Mora)
Katarulu (Trin's Veil)

Is Nexine really a stop? Or is it a pass through? The boats are J-4. So it could be a pass over. It has a scout base, but that probably means it gets scout traffic and maybe even Naval couriers. But that doesn't require an X-boat stop.

Nexine could be both a stop and a pass through. Just because an X-boat can do a J-4 doesn't mean it has to. Two X-boats could leave from Pallique -- one bound for Nexine, the other bound for Katarulu.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kaladorn:
But, here is where you get problems: Where you've got a vertical line of planets and 'pass through' routes actually pass through the planets.

Case in point:
Pallique (Mora)
Nexine (Mora)
Katarulu (Trin's Veil)

Is Nexine really a stop? Or is it a pass through? The boats are J-4. So it could be a pass over. It has a scout base, but that probably means it gets scout traffic and maybe even Naval couriers. But that doesn't require an X-boat stop.

Nexine could be both a stop and a pass through. Just because an X-boat can do a J-4 doesn't mean it has to. Two X-boats could leave from Pallique -- one bound for Nexine, the other bound for Katarulu. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:
a stop and a pass through. Just because an X-boat can do a J-4 doesn't mean it has to. Two X-boats could leave from Pallique -- one bound for Nexine, the other bound for Katarulu.

There you go using that *LOGIC* again.....

Yes, we do, as you point out, have at least three options:

1) No stop (a jump-over)
2) A stop (plus a jump-through for other ships)
3) A stop (no jump-through)

Also, another thought I had is are all X-boat links equally serviced? That is, do some get more frequent boats (say one every six hours or something) and others only see a boat every other day? That might make sense..... (but might well not be canon, I forget...)

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn wrote:

"Also, another thought I had is are all X-boat links equally serviced? That is, do some get more frequent boats (say one every six hours or something) and others only see a boat every other day? That might make sense..... (but might well not be canon, I forget...)"


Mr. Barclay,

Most likely there are 'low traffic routes'; isolated spurs or low priority loops. Checking the maps of the Marches will show you plenty of candidates for that.

As for 'high traffic', I don't think you'd see anything *scheduled* more than once per standard day. I pin that opinion on the jump drive's temporal accuracy; run-of-the-mill jumps will last 168 hours plus or minus 10%. That accuracy is slightly over a standard day's length so I figured one arrival per day as the maximum *normal* rate.

Yes, good navigators and good jump plots can push arrival times towards the low end of this 151.2 - 184.8 hour band. However, given the enormous number of jumps made by the x-boat system in across the Imperium during any 24 hour period, the averages win out. No systems engineer worth his diploma or scheduler worth his pay packet will plan on each and every x-boat trip taking precisely the same amount of time. Only a 'same time - all the time' jump period would make multiple daily departures worthwhile, otherwise the 0600 'boat will occasionally arrive after the 1800 'boat.

I've forgotten the name of the thread here, but we recently hashed out x-boat operational tempos during a discussion about modular x-boat designs. The original posters had theorized a modular 'boat design with engineering and fuel separate from pilot and payload. It was a good design but it ignored the canoncial realities of the jump drive's temporal accuracy. Anything faster than one arrival per standard day just doesn't work. That level of traffic means that the work pace of a typical x-boat station is steady, almost stately, and not the hurried, frenetic pace that would make modular 'boat designs necessary.


Sincerely,
Larsen