Working for a living
- Thread starter jrients
- Start date
There's some pay scales in CT Book 4, Mercenary, that cover ground troops. That's the only official word I can recall on the matter, but there might easily be something else.
In any case, wages are probably going to be rather variable from world to world and highly dependent on local conditions.
- John
In any case, wages are probably going to be rather variable from world to world and highly dependent on local conditions.
- John
Hasty rules of thumb created out of thin air(tm).
1. Skill levels may not be equal in terms of earning power. We'll just work from an assumed 'average' skill type.
2. Assume the average Joe Imperial has Cr1500-Cr2000 of monthly expenses. (Underlying rule: Cr250 x SOC). Yearly: KCr18-KCr24.
3. Assume the average Joe Imperial can afford this standard of living on a level-2 skill.
4. Assume extra levels have the same pay scale as starship skill levels: +10% each.
5. Assume most worlds are at a lower cost of living than Sylea, Vland, Terra, et al, by a factor of, say, 25%, which translates to KCr13-KCr18 per year.
6. Therefore, an average employable skill at level-1 will fetch perhaps KCr15 per year, or around Cr300 per week.
How's that for wild-eyed guesstimating?
1. Skill levels may not be equal in terms of earning power. We'll just work from an assumed 'average' skill type.
2. Assume the average Joe Imperial has Cr1500-Cr2000 of monthly expenses. (Underlying rule: Cr250 x SOC). Yearly: KCr18-KCr24.
3. Assume the average Joe Imperial can afford this standard of living on a level-2 skill.
4. Assume extra levels have the same pay scale as starship skill levels: +10% each.
5. Assume most worlds are at a lower cost of living than Sylea, Vland, Terra, et al, by a factor of, say, 25%, which translates to KCr13-KCr18 per year.
6. Therefore, an average employable skill at level-1 will fetch perhaps KCr15 per year, or around Cr300 per week.
How's that for wild-eyed guesstimating?
d20 Modern/Future has an occupation system you might want to try out, but then they use a Wealth attribute in that system.
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
I like the system, robject. I think my tweak would be to have the skill level be the controlling (base) attribute for vocational pay and then have the social level be the variable multiplier.
Have 7 (average SOC) be x1, then have some kind of a negative multiplier for the lower social standings and positive as soc increases.
Some kind of sliding scale, in other words.
A quick idea based off CT LBB2 ship crew salaries. An Eng-1 is listed as Cr. 4,000/month. I'd imagine a ships Eng is rarer than an Elec so Elec-1 say Cr. 2,000/month. Since ship life usually includes room and board, bump Elec-1 to Cr. 3,000/month. Your guy has Elec.-2, I usually use +50% per skill up to about 4; so Elec-2 about Cr. 4,500/month.
This guys best skill appears to be Admin. Which makes me think he would be a good candidate for management of other Elec. or a business or service that uses Elec. Managers typically make more the more people they manage. Maybe add 10% of the salaries of the people he manages. As we can all attest, the people he manges can certainly have a higher Elec skill than he does.
I love this idea of SOC influencing things, acting as a multiplier to the base, or divider for low SOC. For higher Soc, e.g., he may be serving a more well to do clientel. His Admin. skill may come to the fore in making sure permitting is done smoothly, overseeing workers so clients are served in a timely manner and with the highest possible quality. Steward skill could come in handy to make sure they feel they have been treated right.
The Admin skill may come in getting good jobs. Maybe with that good Admin.-3 he can get a service contract for the local starport. His guys servicing ships, port facilities etc. Once at the starport life will never be boring again.
This guys best skill appears to be Admin. Which makes me think he would be a good candidate for management of other Elec. or a business or service that uses Elec. Managers typically make more the more people they manage. Maybe add 10% of the salaries of the people he manages. As we can all attest, the people he manges can certainly have a higher Elec skill than he does.
I love this idea of SOC influencing things, acting as a multiplier to the base, or divider for low SOC. For higher Soc, e.g., he may be serving a more well to do clientel. His Admin. skill may come to the fore in making sure permitting is done smoothly, overseeing workers so clients are served in a timely manner and with the highest possible quality. Steward skill could come in handy to make sure they feel they have been treated right.
The Admin skill may come in getting good jobs. Maybe with that good Admin.-3 he can get a service contract for the local starport. His guys servicing ships, port facilities etc. Once at the starport life will never be boring again.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Hmmm. Good ideas. For the SOC "bonus/penalty" bit, you could always use a multiplier of (SOC + 3) / 10. This makes SOC 7 equal to 100%.
Depends on polity and skill, as mentioned before. IMTU, working on a "temporary" basis for a megacorp in the Solar Triumvirate (which has no minimum wage laws) could give you a wage as low as Cr100-Cr120 per month (which is on the starvation level, you can live from it but barely according to LBB3); a skill relevant to the particular post you're manning would get you around Cr300-Cr400 per month. A good job for the avarage worker would be around Cr500 per month; a middle-level exec (Admin skill and SOC 9+ probably needed to get to this level) will get you circa Cr1,000-Cr5,000 per month. Ship crews get good salaries in order to keep them happy and discourage them from hijacking the expensive ships they are on ("spacing" punishments for caught hijackers help in this regard as well).
I'm also working on a (minimum) pay scale for the Alliance, which is somewhat more complex as it figures better payment for over-hours and relevant skill; also, most Alliance ciizens either work freelance, for the government or in cooperatives (i.e. independant companies owned by their workers; in addition to your salary, you also get a share in profits, which also takes your relevant skill(s) into account). Corporations in the narrow meaning of the word (i.e. compnies owned by a handful ofinvestors and given rights as "individuals") are illegal in the Alliance.
I'm also working on a (minimum) pay scale for the Alliance, which is somewhat more complex as it figures better payment for over-hours and relevant skill; also, most Alliance ciizens either work freelance, for the government or in cooperatives (i.e. independant companies owned by their workers; in addition to your salary, you also get a share in profits, which also takes your relevant skill(s) into account). Corporations in the narrow meaning of the word (i.e. compnies owned by a handful ofinvestors and given rights as "individuals") are illegal in the Alliance.
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Ptah said:
In general, (and this is a HUGE generalization) people in a job with a "lower class" social environment are paid less than those servicing a higher client base. Mainly due to the fact that those in the lower classes don't have as much money to spend on things.
Also, isn't there something in the CT rules about getting paid when doing multiple shipboard roles?
As an aside, I just thought that something like this could be an adventure seed to increase a character's social standing - for example, a mechanic fixes a noble's air raft because the noble is in dire straights, or saves his life in the process. This gets the mechanic in the news, and usually (unfortunately in some cases
) being something of a media celebrity (however short-lived) is accompanied by an increase of SOC. Best case, they can get a knighthood, ala Traveller's Digest.
robject:
(really math in general...)
That was exactly my thinking on this. I'm a consultant, so I see all kinds of different environments, and as a customer of services (as we all are) we have seen varying levels of service based on the people we encounter.
In general, (and this is a HUGE generalization) people in a job with a "lower class" social environment are paid less than those servicing a higher client base. Mainly due to the fact that those in the lower classes don't have as much money to spend on things.
Also, isn't there something in the CT rules about getting paid when doing multiple shipboard roles?
As an aside, I just thought that something like this could be an adventure seed to increase a character's social standing - for example, a mechanic fixes a noble's air raft because the noble is in dire straights, or saves his life in the process. This gets the mechanic in the news, and usually (unfortunately in some cases
robject:
Fritz88:
Thanks guys, for coming up with those. I like both formulae. This is why I hated Statistics.
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
There are some rules/guidelines in T20 to cover this sort of situation. Not exactly sure how they would translate to CT, but here they are.
SOC and living expenses: T20 requires each PC to pay Cr100 x SOC each month for basic living expenses. If you pay less than that for a month, it temporarily lowers your SOC to the level you paid. (EXA: Your SOC is 7. You owe Cr700 for the month. You can only pay Cr500. Your SOC is lowered to 5 until you can start paying the appropriate amount.) Pay a lower amount than your SOC for an extended period of time, and your SOC gets lowered permanetly.
Getting paid for using skills: There are four cascade skills which will get you hired -- Craft, Entertain, Profession and Technical. There are several possible, specific skills that will fall under each cascade skill. Craft is making something. So if you can make weapons, you have the skill Craft (Weaponsmith). If you can make wooden cabinets, you would have Craft (Carpenter). Entertain is for singing, acting, standup comic, playing musical instruments, etc. Technical is for electronics, mechanics, computers, engineering, gravitics, medical, astrogation, communications, sensors, etc. Profession is for jobs that cover several related skills, such as Administration, Hunting, or Prospecting.
To maintain a job, you have to make a skill check each week by rolling a d20 plus your appropriate skill level. You have to meet or exceed a target score for the level of your employment. There are four levels of employment.
DC 5 = Cr500 a week
DC 10 = C750 a week
DC 15 = Cr1000 a week
DC 20 = Cr2000 a week
Also, under the skill description for the Craft skill, it states that untrained laborers and assistants earn Cr75 a day.
I would guess a DC 5 in T20 would be equal to a 3+ in CT. DC 10 = 6+, DC 15 = 9+, DC 20 = 12+.
For a frame of reference, one skill level in CT is probably equal to four skill ranks in T20. Not sure how stats equate since the highest stat you can roll in CT is 12, and in T20 it is 18.
SOC and living expenses: T20 requires each PC to pay Cr100 x SOC each month for basic living expenses. If you pay less than that for a month, it temporarily lowers your SOC to the level you paid. (EXA: Your SOC is 7. You owe Cr700 for the month. You can only pay Cr500. Your SOC is lowered to 5 until you can start paying the appropriate amount.) Pay a lower amount than your SOC for an extended period of time, and your SOC gets lowered permanetly.
Getting paid for using skills: There are four cascade skills which will get you hired -- Craft, Entertain, Profession and Technical. There are several possible, specific skills that will fall under each cascade skill. Craft is making something. So if you can make weapons, you have the skill Craft (Weaponsmith). If you can make wooden cabinets, you would have Craft (Carpenter). Entertain is for singing, acting, standup comic, playing musical instruments, etc. Technical is for electronics, mechanics, computers, engineering, gravitics, medical, astrogation, communications, sensors, etc. Profession is for jobs that cover several related skills, such as Administration, Hunting, or Prospecting.
To maintain a job, you have to make a skill check each week by rolling a d20 plus your appropriate skill level. You have to meet or exceed a target score for the level of your employment. There are four levels of employment.
DC 5 = Cr500 a week
DC 10 = C750 a week
DC 15 = Cr1000 a week
DC 20 = Cr2000 a week
Also, under the skill description for the Craft skill, it states that untrained laborers and assistants earn Cr75 a day.
I would guess a DC 5 in T20 would be equal to a 3+ in CT. DC 10 = 6+, DC 15 = 9+, DC 20 = 12+.
For a frame of reference, one skill level in CT is probably equal to four skill ranks in T20. Not sure how stats equate since the highest stat you can roll in CT is 12, and in T20 it is 18.
I think a better tact would be to simply look at the worlds basic Cost of Living expenses, correlate them with your own experiences (i.e. grab a generic salary survey of the web -- heck, even Parade Magezine has an annual sorta-salary survey), and then go from that.
I mean, if "most people" pay "30%" for housing and food, that can give you a base line to work from, and then go from there. How much do YOU pay for housing for example?
For example, while our current U.S. house-for-sale market is going berzerk, the rental market is quite stable, so that gives a good idea of what what basic shelter runs for each month in different areas.
While it's true that the market reflects its customers, i.e. expensive areas have people that make a lot of money (duh), and prices adjust accordingly, it can be easier to find references to costs for housing and other basics of life. And the best part, even if you just pull those numbers out of the blue sky, once you index everything else off of them everything is balanced.
Simply put, you're just making the local market "work". You can't rent apartments for $2000/month if there aren't folks willing to pay it. If folks are willing to pay it, how much would they need to earn each month to live there? Once you know that, you can then set things like meal prices, car prices, etc. So it all evens out.
Obviously you can make exceptions, government policies for example, rent control, coporate housing, etc. But, even then, you adjust the incomes appropriately. It's clear that if the corporation is paying for the housing for you, they're not paying YOU for housing -- you don't need it, so you can reduce pay accordingly.
With a little spreadsheet and calculator magic, you can come up with numbers that "seem legit".
Once you have the numbers, you can then work out any exchange rate details in interplanetary cash is an issue, or you need to covert local Cubits to Imperial Credits.
Anecdote: I remember back in the day about some guys hearing that they could earn, like $40-50K/year working in Japan (this was in the 80's), and they were all eager and excited by that number. But at the same time, they weren't considering the cost of living etc. that goes with it, so $40K/year over there may well not be the same as $40K/year over here.
Anyway, my 2 cents for ways to derive some of your own numbers from a few base factors and some fiddling with a pencil.
I mean, if "most people" pay "30%" for housing and food, that can give you a base line to work from, and then go from there. How much do YOU pay for housing for example?
For example, while our current U.S. house-for-sale market is going berzerk, the rental market is quite stable, so that gives a good idea of what what basic shelter runs for each month in different areas.
While it's true that the market reflects its customers, i.e. expensive areas have people that make a lot of money (duh), and prices adjust accordingly, it can be easier to find references to costs for housing and other basics of life. And the best part, even if you just pull those numbers out of the blue sky, once you index everything else off of them everything is balanced.
Simply put, you're just making the local market "work". You can't rent apartments for $2000/month if there aren't folks willing to pay it. If folks are willing to pay it, how much would they need to earn each month to live there? Once you know that, you can then set things like meal prices, car prices, etc. So it all evens out.
Obviously you can make exceptions, government policies for example, rent control, coporate housing, etc. But, even then, you adjust the incomes appropriately. It's clear that if the corporation is paying for the housing for you, they're not paying YOU for housing -- you don't need it, so you can reduce pay accordingly.
With a little spreadsheet and calculator magic, you can come up with numbers that "seem legit".
Once you have the numbers, you can then work out any exchange rate details in interplanetary cash is an issue, or you need to covert local Cubits to Imperial Credits.
Anecdote: I remember back in the day about some guys hearing that they could earn, like $40-50K/year working in Japan (this was in the 80's), and they were all eager and excited by that number. But at the same time, they weren't considering the cost of living etc. that goes with it, so $40K/year over there may well not be the same as $40K/year over here.
Anyway, my 2 cents for ways to derive some of your own numbers from a few base factors and some fiddling with a pencil.
Hmm adventure ideas . . .
1. An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service.
2. Buying a used air raft from “Honest” Eddie.
3. Investing in the stock and securities exchange.
4. Standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. After a show trial he is convicted of sedition, sent to an Imperial Prison where he is recruited by the Ine Givar to help bring down an unjust and oppressive regime.
1. An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service.
2. Buying a used air raft from “Honest” Eddie.
3. Investing in the stock and securities exchange.
4. Standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. After a show trial he is convicted of sedition, sent to an Imperial Prison where he is recruited by the Ine Givar to help bring down an unjust and oppressive regime.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
Hmm...
An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service... uncovers (1D)
1) At least one other sophont using your IID number for employment and tax purposes.
2) A savings account in your name at an institution located at least 3 parsecs away. The account contains kCr x 1D.
3) As #2, and several withdrawals have been made that were replaced within 24 hours, all within the last year.
4) A data flag that indicates a secret audit has already been completed by an unidentified government agency.
5) As #4, and the agency is not of the player's government.
6) A data flag that indicates "Hands Off" by Imperial Warrant; cause unknown.
Buying a used air raft from “Honest” Eddie, and you find concealed behind a panel (1D):
1) A previously unknown Lassiter* hand laser. Value is kCr x 2D.
2) As #1, and it turns out to be the one that Mal* liberated from its previous owner, who really, really wants it back.
3) A single Koyn, taped to a map.
4) A well-preserved body part.
5) As #4, and matching the DNA of one of the characters.
6) A holographic message cart. The message begins "If you are viewing this message, then you are already in great danger..."
Investing in the stock and securities exchange results in (1D):
1) An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service (see above).
2) A stock split, your investment doubles overnight.
3) Your sudden influx of offworld credits forces an imbalance, resulting in a local recession.
4) Receipt of a message that begins "Greeting, Feloo Sofont. I am Umberto Umbutu, teh soul serviving son of teh late Joseph Umbutu, who is merderred from a resently fayeld coup atempt last yer..."
5) The 1000 shares of stock that you purchased are delivered to you... the entire herd... all 1000 beasts. Good Luck.
6) The investment broker's lifeless body is dicovered the next day. You are the prime suspect, complete with All Points Bulletins, House-to-House searches, and random indentity checks.
[* - Items and characters referred to are from the movie and TV series "Firefly" and are the property of the copyright holders of the movie and TV series. There use here is without permission, and does not imply endorsement by the copyright holders of this posting, this website, or its core topic.]
An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service... uncovers (1D)
1) At least one other sophont using your IID number for employment and tax purposes.
2) A savings account in your name at an institution located at least 3 parsecs away. The account contains kCr x 1D.
3) As #2, and several withdrawals have been made that were replaced within 24 hours, all within the last year.
4) A data flag that indicates a secret audit has already been completed by an unidentified government agency.
5) As #4, and the agency is not of the player's government.
6) A data flag that indicates "Hands Off" by Imperial Warrant; cause unknown.
Buying a used air raft from “Honest” Eddie, and you find concealed behind a panel (1D):
1) A previously unknown Lassiter* hand laser. Value is kCr x 2D.
2) As #1, and it turns out to be the one that Mal* liberated from its previous owner, who really, really wants it back.
3) A single Koyn, taped to a map.
4) A well-preserved body part.
5) As #4, and matching the DNA of one of the characters.
6) A holographic message cart. The message begins "If you are viewing this message, then you are already in great danger..."
Investing in the stock and securities exchange results in (1D):
1) An audit by the Imperial Revenue Service (see above).
2) A stock split, your investment doubles overnight.
3) Your sudden influx of offworld credits forces an imbalance, resulting in a local recession.
4) Receipt of a message that begins "Greeting, Feloo Sofont. I am Umberto Umbutu, teh soul serviving son of teh late Joseph Umbutu, who is merderred from a resently fayeld coup atempt last yer..."
5) The 1000 shares of stock that you purchased are delivered to you... the entire herd... all 1000 beasts. Good Luck.
6) The investment broker's lifeless body is dicovered the next day. You are the prime suspect, complete with All Points Bulletins, House-to-House searches, and random indentity checks.
[* - Items and characters referred to are from the movie and TV series "Firefly" and are the property of the copyright holders of the movie and TV series. There use here is without permission, and does not imply endorsement by the copyright holders of this posting, this website, or its core topic.]
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Tell me more about this tragic Umberto Umbutu story...
