Why use a Mass Driver?

[julianlove]

I've recently been building a few low TL grav vehicles in MT and while deciding the best weaponry for my shiny new TL9 Grav Tank, I took a look at Mass Drivers.

Basically, they are larger, more expensive and have lower ROF (base ROF=1) than their HiVel CPR equivalents. And they need *huge* amounts of power. For all that power I should be getting some advantage. But no. For the same power output, a TL8 25MW beam laser is smaller, lighter, cheaper, has more penetration, more damage, longer range and ROF 40x greater than a 14cm MD gun. The disparity is even greater for smaller lasers and equal power MD guns.

What is going on? I've checked the errata, and there don't seem to be any for MD guns. What's the solution to the pointless MD? Should base ROF be 40, not 1? That would go some way towards making them a sensible choice, but you'd still be better off with a laser.

Any ideas?

 

[julianlove]

I've recently been building a few low TL grav vehicles in MT and while deciding the best weaponry for my shiny new TL9 Grav Tank, I took a look at Mass Drivers.

Basically, they are larger, more expensive and have lower ROF (base ROF=1) than their HiVel CPR equivalents. And they need *huge* amounts of power. For all that power I should be getting some advantage. But no. For the same power output, a TL8 25MW beam laser is smaller, lighter, cheaper, has more penetration, more damage, longer range and ROF 40x greater than a 14cm MD gun. The disparity is even greater for smaller lasers and equal power MD guns.

What is going on? I've checked the errata, and there don't seem to be any for MD guns. What's the solution to the pointless MD? Should base ROF be 40, not 1? That would go some way towards making them a sensible choice, but you'd still be better off with a laser.

Any ideas?

 

[julianlove]

I've recently been building a few low TL grav vehicles in MT and while deciding the best weaponry for my shiny new TL9 Grav Tank, I took a look at Mass Drivers.

Basically, they are larger, more expensive and have lower ROF (base ROF=1) than their HiVel CPR equivalents. And they need *huge* amounts of power. For all that power I should be getting some advantage. But no. For the same power output, a TL8 25MW beam laser is smaller, lighter, cheaper, has more penetration, more damage, longer range and ROF 40x greater than a 14cm MD gun. The disparity is even greater for smaller lasers and equal power MD guns.

What is going on? I've checked the errata, and there don't seem to be any for MD guns. What's the solution to the pointless MD? Should base ROF be 40, not 1? That would go some way towards making them a sensible choice, but you'd still be better off with a laser.

Any ideas?

 

[flykiller]

indirect fire?

 

[flykiller]

indirect fire?

 

[flykiller]

indirect fire?

 

[Lenadh]

One of the nastier weapons to put on a TL9 AFV is a 12cm-14cm MD mortar. Gets you indirect fire artillery capability, and you can launch CLGM's out of it. CLGM's of course attack a target's top armor, which is generally thinner.

The best part is that an MD Mortar has a lot less power requirements then a hypervelocity direct-fire MD. With a fusion-powered vehicle you can get a fairly impressive rate of fire.

 

[Lenadh]

One of the nastier weapons to put on a TL9 AFV is a 12cm-14cm MD mortar. Gets you indirect fire artillery capability, and you can launch CLGM's out of it. CLGM's of course attack a target's top armor, which is generally thinner.

The best part is that an MD Mortar has a lot less power requirements then a hypervelocity direct-fire MD. With a fusion-powered vehicle you can get a fairly impressive rate of fire.

 

[Lenadh]

One of the nastier weapons to put on a TL9 AFV is a 12cm-14cm MD mortar. Gets you indirect fire artillery capability, and you can launch CLGM's out of it. CLGM's of course attack a target's top armor, which is generally thinner.

The best part is that an MD Mortar has a lot less power requirements then a hypervelocity direct-fire MD. With a fusion-powered vehicle you can get a fairly impressive rate of fire.

 

[julianlove]

I'm using the MT Ref's manual. I can't see any tables for MD Mortars...are the details for these weapons published somewhere else?

Another strange thing I have noticed is between Howitzers and HiVel CPRs. The howizer is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the HiVel of the same bore, yet it's HEAP penetration is greater. KEAP pen is greater for the high velocity gun, as it should be.

 

[julianlove]

I'm using the MT Ref's manual. I can't see any tables for MD Mortars...are the details for these weapons published somewhere else?

Another strange thing I have noticed is between Howitzers and HiVel CPRs. The howizer is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the HiVel of the same bore, yet it's HEAP penetration is greater. KEAP pen is greater for the high velocity gun, as it should be.

 

[julianlove]

I'm using the MT Ref's manual. I can't see any tables for MD Mortars...are the details for these weapons published somewhere else?

Another strange thing I have noticed is between Howitzers and HiVel CPRs. The howizer is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the HiVel of the same bore, yet it's HEAP penetration is greater. KEAP pen is greater for the high velocity gun, as it should be.

 

[aramis]

MD Hivels won't even get a break on the signatures. The advantage, however, is field ammunition replacement. Your HiVel guns require cartridges, powder, and have a round mass that is only about 20-60% projectile (sometimes far less).

MD rounds are 95-99% projectile (the rest being safety, handling, and shipping losses, not propellant and casing). Also, in the field, with adequate heat (available from any working fusion plant's exhaust) one can melt iron and make new (unguided slug) rounds.

The tactical advantage is negligible... a few extra rounds per gun. The strategic is a simplified supply chain and ability for long-term "scrounging."

Oh, one other... the MD's can also be used to fire improvised munitions, like ordinary hand grenades, etc.

Jules: check the round masses.

 

[aramis]

MD Hivels won't even get a break on the signatures. The advantage, however, is field ammunition replacement. Your HiVel guns require cartridges, powder, and have a round mass that is only about 20-60% projectile (sometimes far less).

MD rounds are 95-99% projectile (the rest being safety, handling, and shipping losses, not propellant and casing). Also, in the field, with adequate heat (available from any working fusion plant's exhaust) one can melt iron and make new (unguided slug) rounds.

The tactical advantage is negligible... a few extra rounds per gun. The strategic is a simplified supply chain and ability for long-term "scrounging."

Oh, one other... the MD's can also be used to fire improvised munitions, like ordinary hand grenades, etc.

Jules: check the round masses.

 

[aramis]

MD Hivels won't even get a break on the signatures. The advantage, however, is field ammunition replacement. Your HiVel guns require cartridges, powder, and have a round mass that is only about 20-60% projectile (sometimes far less).

MD rounds are 95-99% projectile (the rest being safety, handling, and shipping losses, not propellant and casing). Also, in the field, with adequate heat (available from any working fusion plant's exhaust) one can melt iron and make new (unguided slug) rounds.

The tactical advantage is negligible... a few extra rounds per gun. The strategic is a simplified supply chain and ability for long-term "scrounging."

Oh, one other... the MD's can also be used to fire improvised munitions, like ordinary hand grenades, etc.

Jules: check the round masses.

 

[Lenadh]

Here's some other interesting types of improvised ammo.

Starship turret missiles (15cm), might need a crude sabot.

Aircraft bombs. Not sure on diameter, but it should be possible at some masses. So if you take an airbase and have no aircraft of your own, you can get some nice results from those spare bombs.

Chemical drums (albeit small ones). The possibilities here are almost limitless, and are far too many to list.

It's been a while since I looked at the MT tables, did MD's top out at 30cm bore?

 

[Lenadh]

Here's some other interesting types of improvised ammo.

Starship turret missiles (15cm), might need a crude sabot.

Aircraft bombs. Not sure on diameter, but it should be possible at some masses. So if you take an airbase and have no aircraft of your own, you can get some nice results from those spare bombs.

Chemical drums (albeit small ones). The possibilities here are almost limitless, and are far too many to list.

It's been a while since I looked at the MT tables, did MD's top out at 30cm bore?

 

[Lenadh]

Here's some other interesting types of improvised ammo.

Starship turret missiles (15cm), might need a crude sabot.

Aircraft bombs. Not sure on diameter, but it should be possible at some masses. So if you take an airbase and have no aircraft of your own, you can get some nice results from those spare bombs.

Chemical drums (albeit small ones). The possibilities here are almost limitless, and are far too many to list.

It's been a while since I looked at the MT tables, did MD's top out at 30cm bore?

 

[julianlove]

OK, so the rounds weigh half the amount of HiVel CPRs. This still doesn't explain why I would chose an MD over a HiVel. At TL9:

12cm HV PWR:0 VOL:2.1m3 WT:2.1t CR:120k ROF:9
12cm MD PWR:20 VOL:2.5m3 WT:2.5t CR:350k ROF:1

Rounds for the MD weigh half the amount but have the same penetration performance. So, to get the benefit of half weight ammo I have to stump up 20MW in power (a MCr2 fusion power plant) to have a ROF of 1 instead of 9.

Err, I don't think so.

 

[julianlove]

OK, so the rounds weigh half the amount of HiVel CPRs. This still doesn't explain why I would chose an MD over a HiVel. At TL9:

12cm HV PWR:0 VOL:2.1m3 WT:2.1t CR:120k ROF:9
12cm MD PWR:20 VOL:2.5m3 WT:2.5t CR:350k ROF:1

Rounds for the MD weigh half the amount but have the same penetration performance. So, to get the benefit of half weight ammo I have to stump up 20MW in power (a MCr2 fusion power plant) to have a ROF of 1 instead of 9.

Err, I don't think so.