Why the Player's Handbook should not be cut-and-paste

[robject]

I can think of one good reason why the T5 Player's Handbook should not simply be a cut-and-paste from the T5 Core Rules:

The T5 Core Rules.

Any questions?

 

[vegas]

None.

 

[jcrocker]

See, Letterman, he would have had to pad that out with nine more points. Very efficient!

 

[infojunky]

Cut and paste is fine for the rough draft, then a good solid editing.

Note skill allocation needs to be clear in the generation section instead of buried in the skills section.

 

[robject]

See, Letterman, he would have had to pad that out with nine more points. Very efficient!

Oooh, a top ten!

 

[lordmalachdrim]

My point is that if T5 was written properly and was a balanced, well functioning system then the Player's Handbook would have been a copy paste of the important sections followed by a quick edit and done.

That would have taken maybe a month? Yet nearly 5 years later and it's not in sight.

The fact that they have been unable to product the Players handbook in that time tells me the game is broken.

Hell the fact that the core book's page count went up by about 100 pages for just the .09 errata tells me it is broken.

And lets not forget that the errata (after nearly 5 years) is still not done.

 

[David Johansen]

I'd be happy to just get a cut and paste job at this point. Any forward movement at all.

 

[MichaelSTee]

Yeah, I agree with David J and lordmalachdrim. It's been too long now.

Personally, I won't back any more of Marc's Kickstarters until T5's errata issues are done. Didn't back Grognard, won't back another Agent novel.
I'm not on a campaign against Marc. I still am a backer of this forum (in about 6 weeks, I'll be happily renewing my moot subscription again). I think T5 had much potential, and there are bits of it I really like. But the errata issue has gone on too long. Marc has said himself that he needs to finish it. If I were to meet him, I would ask him to please deliver on his promises through the years, from the original play test (2008) thru the kickstarter (2012) thru last year's TravellerCon.

To be back on-topic: only when T5 is finished can the Player's handbook be finished. If anyone is still interested by then. I'll be using CE and CT.

 

[khadaji2002]

As a brand-new Moot member I agree with both sides of this conversation. I was part of a Kickstarter project several years ago that promised books out in a year or so. More than two years after the Kickstarter closed they had the first book out. They are still putting out books as far as I know. I started blocking their emails after I got my Kickstarter rewards. That disappointment soured me on their system.

I was not part of the Traveller T5 Kickstarter so I'm not dealing with that disappointment. I would like to be part of the solution. To that end I became a Moot member so I can see what work has been done, what still needs doing, and where I can pitch in to help. For those who are burnt out, I understand and respect your position. For those still looking forward to seeing T5 out in a cleaned up form, let's roll up our sleeves and get to it.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Is there an outline for a T5 player book yet?
Is there a T5 quick-start rules yet based on that online?
Is there a T5 player book that builds on what the quick-start rules include?

That's how things ought to go.

 

[Timerover51]

For what it is worth, my opinion is that a Player's Handbook should be something on the lines of the Starter Traveller set. The basic rules spelled out and explained, with a recommendation that for more advanced material, the player should go to T5.0.9. However, the book will need thorough editing by an outside source, unfamiliar with Traveller, to reduce confusion and catch errata before putting it out.

 

[coliver988]

For what it is worth, my opinion is that a Player's Handbook should be something on the lines of the Starter Traveller set. The basic rules spelled out and explained, with a recommendation that for more advanced material, the player should go to T5.0.9. However, the book will need thorough editing by an outside source, unfamiliar with Traveller, to reduce confusion and catch errata before putting it out.

I will second the need for an outside source for editing / proof reading. People see what they want to see, particularly if they are reading their own material. Writers familiar with Traveller will be making certain assumptions that non-Traveller players, even if they've been playing RPGs for decades, may not understand.

Good, consistent with the rules examples of actually doing things will go a long way to making T5 an actual playable game instead of a tool box to plunder in random ways (my technique so far).

 

[infojunky]

I will second the need for an outside source for editing / proof reading. People see what they want to see, particularly if they are reading their own material. Writers familiar with Traveller will be making certain assumptions that non-Traveller players, even if they've been playing RPGs for decades, may not understand.

This is so true, some many of the sections are would be indecipherable if I didn't have 40+ years of Traveller under my belt.

With that and on to the direct question, Character creation needs to be severely edited, all the optional bits need to come out of the core text. I.e. all the alternate Attributes and the like need to be moved to the end as addition options after the core of the process has been explained.

Let me repeat myself, The basic process needs to be explained before all the options are piled on.

As it stands T5 reminds me more of Dangerous Journeys more than it does of Traveller. (Which if y'all remember needed a 3rd party to write a character creation section for it).

Good, consistent with the rules examples of actually doing things will go a long way to making T5 an actual playable game instead of a tool box to plunder in random ways (my technique so far).

My take too, been mining it for house rules, as there is very little support for the games I play in the core rules.

 

[David Johansen]

For those still looking forward to seeing T5 out in a cleaned up form, let's roll up our sleeves and get to it.

But you see, there's nothing we can do. The errata's been gone over in detail, it's a question of Marc doing the work. And it's only that way because he insists on doing all the work. There's an inner circle, but even Don had to wait for Marc. It's Marc's game, it's his baby, I'm sure he'd be happier if it was done but I can also understand why it would be hard to stay motivated. He's got my respect and my sympathy but that does nothing to help me play T5 or sell copies of it in my store for that matter. I actually bought 3 copies from my distributor but I ended up giving them to friends because I couldn't bring myself to sell such a scrambled product to anyone.

 

[Timerover51]

What it boils down to is Marc recognizing that the writer of a game is the worst possible editor for the game. Until that happens, all the rewrites in the universe are not going to be any better. Unfortunately for the Traveller series, Marc appears to refuse to recognize this.

I am fully aware that I am not the editor when it comes to my own stuff.