Why not more Robots?

[Shonner]

Android is the human (animal) looking thing that is patrol the ship, running the flight controls, doing that simple medical procedure cause you can't not stand sitting in the medical coffin robot (auto medic box).

When I see some CG humans moving, I notice the uncanny valley they didn't quite cross. Sometimes they crossed it just fine, but they are still not quite human-looking yet. I wonder if the citizens of the 3rd Imperium experienced some sort of cultural uncanny valley with early android prototypes and then discontinued any further research?

Like the Twilight Zone where the doctor can't look at the woman's face, and everyone else is ugly. Well... maybe not quite like that.

 

[Greylond]

yes, that's how MgT Inhibitors work. Basically, they are hardware based firmware that prevents robots from doing certain tasks, a la Asimov Laws.

 

[rancke]

Robots are the automated check out cashiers (kind of like you find at Walmart self check out).

I haven't read any of the rules books about robots, but from the rules in JTAS and the examples in Research Station Gamma, I've always assumed that in Traveller a robot was an independent self-propelled mechanical entity. That's certainly what I referred to when I talked of robots in my previous posts in this thread.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

No. If you are rolling the cost into the mortgage, you'll see no real difference. BUT, you will feel a difference if you are paying a monthly salary to an organic.

Forget the 12,000 to 48,000 credit annual salary per gunner or pilot ...
... remember the 50,000 credits per person per year in life support
... and 100,000 credits per year in lost freight revenue (the 4 dT stateroom) per crewman.

... and throw in the fact that a large ship will need 4 shifts at 40 hours per week (or at least 3 shifts at 8 hours per day) to provide continuous engineering coverage; or one robot engineer can work 24/7 ... replacing Three or Four crew members.

The 100,000 credit robot will pay for itself in 3-4 months!

[Of course, you will need 1 engineer (robot repair) per 35 dTons of robots. ]

 

[Shonner]

What is the back door for the little robot dog my granddaughter has?

I've had robot dogs also. But I wouldn't really call any of them robots. They were more like animatronic characters. One could add to them with additional circuits and some programming. But it's not worth doing if the servos are not up to par for any precision movement. Radio Shack's original Armatron was something I thought of improving once. But it only had one clutch in the whole thing.

 

[CosmicGamer]

independent self-propelled mechanical entity

Perhaps add Autonomous? Opposed to wireless or otherwise controlled by a human - or even a separate computer.

 

[Shonner]

As far as automated Walmart and IKEA registers, they are just un-manned registers. The customer has to do the self-checking out of their cart items and place everything in bags. No robot.

 

[Shonner]

Perhaps add Autonomous? Opposed to wireless or otherwise controlled by a human - or even a separate computer.

Kids will see a radio-controlled R2-D2 at a mall and think it's a robot. It's a radio-controlled toy of a sort. But.... What is controlling the radio? Is it a manual control that a human has to man to operate the controls? Or is there a cybernetic brain attacked to the radio control that makes the R2 move and beep? And is that cybernetic brain thing manually operated?

It could be all just a series of electronic signal levers being pulled on.

 

[rancke]

The 100,000 credit robot will pay for itself in 3-4 months!

Well, that seems like clear evidence of a canon conflict. But a canon conflict is two statements that cannot both be true at the same time. It says nothing about which statement is true and which is false. So if robots only cost 100,000 credits (and had no drawbacks that overshadowed the potential savings), then there would be more of them. Since there aren't more of them, the error could just as easily be the price of the robot being much too low or its utility being overstated or the problems with it being understated.

(Also, life support costs could be unreasonably high. )


Hans

 

[HG_B]

Forget the 12,000 to 48,000 credit annual salary per gunner or pilot ...
... remember the 50,000 credits per person per year in life support
... and 100,000 credits per year in lost freight revenue (the 4 dT stateroom) per crewman.

... and throw in the fact that a large ship will need 4 shifts at 40 hours per week (or at least 3 shifts at 8 hours per day) to provide continuous engineering coverage; or one robot engineer can work 24/7 ... replacing Three or Four crew members.

The 100,000 credit robot will pay for itself in 3-4 months!

[Of course, you will need 1 engineer (robot repair) per 35 dTons of robots. ]

Ouch! That really puts it in perspective.

 

[Greylond]

Forget the 12,000 to 48,000 credit annual salary per gunner or pilot ...
... remember the 50,000 credits per person per year in life support
... and 100,000 credits per year in lost freight revenue (the 4 dT stateroom) per crewman.

... and throw in the fact that a large ship will need 4 shifts at 40 hours per week (or at least 3 shifts at 8 hours per day) to provide continuous engineering coverage; or one robot engineer can work 24/7 ... replacing Three or Four crew members.

The 100,000 credit robot will pay for itself in 3-4 months!

[Of course, you will need 1 engineer (robot repair) per 35 dTons of robots. ]

Ouch! That really puts it in perspective.

And now you see what started this line of thinking in my head...

The only thing I can think of is a strong Biological Bias/Prejudice against Robots serving in Crewmen Jobs.

 

[CosmicGamer]

But I wouldn't really call any of them robots.

The point is that these simple inexpensive toys are much more secure than more complicated expensive bots.

So a lack of security is not due to a lack of technology or money, in fact it is the opposite.

If you have a complex bot you want to be able to fix any error.
If you have a costly piece of equipment you want to be able to modify it instead of replacing it.

If security is your priority though, even with current day tech you can make devices that essentially someone would have to destroy and remake in order to "hack" it.

 

[HG_B]

And now you see what started this line of thinking in my head...

The only thing I can think of is a strong Biological Bias/Prejudice against Robots serving in Crewmen Jobs.

It would have to be damned strong. So strong as to defy belief really. Especially if we are talking about robots with no personality. Just mobile computers in fact.

 

[McPerth]

I haven't read any of the rules books about robots, but from the rules in JTAS and the examples in Research Station Gamma, I've always assumed that in Traveller a robot was an independent self-propelled mechanical entity. That's certainly what I referred to when I talked of robots in my previous posts in this thread.


Hans

Then pehaps we should begin by defining what we talk about when we say robot.

Not all robots are mobile, and less so self propelled. Most today's robots aren't.

In many cases, there will be only a robot brain. Engineering robots must be mobile, and probably self propelled, as they must go anywhere in the ship they're deeded, but I envision a "robot" gunner being only the brain and an interface to the weapon (easier to achieve than with a sophont, BTW, unless in YTU there are neural plugs). No need for it to be mobile (where should it go, weapon command aside?).

I had symilar thoughts about a "robot" pilot, but I guess that would lead to a discussion about the whole ship being the robot then :devil:...

 

[Limburger59]

Maybe the following clip is why there are few robots in the 3I...
Get Smart meets Hymie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYt12Kzmk0

 

[rancke]

Then pehaps we should begin by defining what we talk about when we say robot.

How about what the Traveller rules refer to when they say robot? (Which may quite possibly be different from what I've gathered they refer to).


Hans

 

[HG_B]

In many cases, there will be only a robot brain. Engineering robots must be mobile, and probably self propelled, as they must go anywhere in the ship they're deeded, but I envision a "robot" gunner being only the brain and an interface to the weapon (easier to achieve than with a sophont, BTW, unless in YTU there are neural plugs). No need for it to be mobile (where should it go, weapon command aside?).

I had symilar thoughts about a "robot" pilot, but I guess that would lead to a discussion about the whole ship being the robot then :devil:...

MGT cover these points. Pretty much as you just did too.

 

[McPerth]

Forget the 12,000 to 48,000 credit annual salary per gunner or pilot ...
... remember the 50,000 credits per person per year in life support
... and 100,000 credits per year in lost freight revenue (the 4 dT stateroom) per crewman.

... and throw in the fact that a large ship will need 4 shifts at 40 hours per week (or at least 3 shifts at 8 hours per day) to provide continuous engineering coverage; or one robot engineer can work 24/7 ... replacing Three or Four crew members.

The 100,000 credit robot will pay for itself in 3-4 months!

[Of course, you will need 1 engineer (robot repair) per 35 dTons of robots. ]

Should we report you for commercial advertisement :devil:?

Well, that seems like clear evidence of a canon conflict. But a canon conflict is two statements that cannot both be true at the same time. It says nothing about which statement is true and which is false. So if robots only cost 100,000 credits (and had no drawbacks that overshadowed the potential savings), then there would be more of them. Since there aren't more of them, the error could just as easily be the price of the robot being much too low or its utility being overstated or the problems with it being understated.

(Also, life support costs could be unreasonably high. )


Hans

IIRC the engineer robot I told about before costed less than so (about 65-75000 Cr) and has engineer 3 mech 1 skills. For 100000 cr you could have a very nice robot, according Bk8, again IIRC.

 

[Greylond]

It would have to be damned strong. So strong as to defy belief really. Especially if we are talking about robots with no personality. Just mobile computers in fact.

Doing remote support every day I talk to people who hate using computers. Perfectly intelligent people who simply have a mental block and become total idiots when dealing with them. So I don't have a problem imagining that.

In fact, my wife used to be like that but I've got her trained to be a fairly good power user, but she STILL refuses to use a computer or the internet for anything that can be done any other way, i.e. look up phone numbers or addresses. I call her a Luddite and she's proud of that label.

 

[Greylond]

MGT cover these points. Pretty much as you just did too.

Yea, except for some of the typical "Mongoose-isms", i.e. typos and editing mistakes that shouldn't be there, the MgT Robots book actually has a pretty good treatment on Robots. It even has a whole chapter on Robots and the way various Societies deal with and/or view them.