Why don't new people play Traveller?

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Kpeterson:
General gaming magazines? As in, not "house organs"?

Yep. Last time I looked (which was a while ago) all there was on that front was "Arcane" which is now long out of production.

Here's a thought - how about T20 adverts in things like Analog magazine? Heck, the readership of that might well be interested in the 3I...

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Here's a thought - how about T20 adverts in things like Analog magazine? Heck, the readership of that might well be interested in the 3I...

Actually that's something that I have considered. Probably would be more effective than advertising in an RPG related magazine.

Hunter

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
<snip>
a hell of a lot of people here and on the TML can see the similarity between Firefly and Traveller
<snip>

Well, sort of. I personally found Firefly to be ok, but it didn't bring Traveller to mind at all (although of course, now that it's been pointed out to me, I see the relationship).

However, I believe there is a huge correlation between Traveller and two other vastly more popular television series that many, many gamers have also seen.

</font>

• Cowboy Beebop</font>
• Outlaw Star</font>

Cowboy Beebop is the classic episodic portrayal of down on their luck bounty hunters, constantly in need of more funds from bounty rewards to keep their ship afloat.

Outlaw Star is also classic Traveller. A crew with a ship in search of extraodinary adventure to stay afloat financially and keep their ship paid for, and to seek the answers to an overarching mystery.

If people ask me for a media style blurb about Traveller, I say "It's like Cowboy Beebop and Outlaw Star."

 

[Malenfant]

Bebop?! Really? I always figured that to be much closer to Jovian Chronicles or Transhuman Space myself. (and now you mention it, I'd be curious about which is more popular - Bebop or Firefly? I guess as anime Bebop could be more popular... )

Maybe it's the "constantly looking for the next paycheck" thing that's similar - that can apply whether you're a trader or bounty hunter after all.

Though there was the little Bounty Hunter supplement for GT, but I didn't get a particularly Bebop-like impression from it (more like Blade Runner IMO, to be honest).

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by hunter:
Actually that's something that I have considered. Probably would be more effective than advertising in an RPG related magazine.

So what's stopping you from doing that?
(I wonder what Analog's circulation is?)

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hunter:
Actually that's something that I have considered. Probably would be more effective than advertising in an RPG related magazine.

So what's stopping you from doing that?
(I wonder what Analog's circulation is?) </font>[/QUOTE]A thousand other little things that need doing

I did just email them for a rate card however...

Hunter

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by hunter:
A thousand other little things that need doing [/QB]

I guess getting more sales from advertising would give you even more thing to do, eh?

[ October 01, 2004, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: hunter ]

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hunter:
A thousand other little things that need doing

I guess getting more sales from advertising would give you even more thing to do, eh? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Note the edit to my last post...

(and forgive the edit message on your own post, I hit the edit button instead of reply and didn't notice until afterwards.)

Hunter

 

[BetterThanLife]

Hunter,
I have 20 years in one kind of sales or another. How can I help?

THough I definitely prefer one on one sales.

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Hunter,
I have 20 years in one kind of sales or another. How can I help?

THough I definitely prefer one on one sales.

What I need are potential areas where we can advertise without breaking the bank, and that will also give us some better mainstream exposure. Trust me, I'd kill to be able to afford to produce a 30-second spot for the Sci-Fi channel...

Once we get closer to publication on Aldenata and Honor, I'm going to try and get with Baen and see if there is any possibility of having an add for them placed in the backs of some of their novels. I have NO idea if this is possible, but given the tie-ins, its worth a shot. I think that something like this could do more for things than anything else.

I'm always open to (reasonable) ideas that don't end up costing a fortune. I've found that most advertising results in brand awareness rather than direct sales. Brand awareness is great over time, but it takes a fair amount of money to sustain an awareness campaign.

What we need are guerrila marketing ideas that aren't forms of SPAM.

Hunter

 

[Shadowdancer]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

What's the success rate of running a game at a convention? Do you get new players who have never seen the game before joining in, or just old fans?

I think a better choice than running at a convention is running a game at a game day. From my experience, people tend to stick to games they already know at conventions.

At game days, one of the main points is to try something new.

I've run T20 games at two EN World game days. The first one had four players -- three college students who had never played Traveller and one middle-aged gamer who had played CT once, as a kid. They all said they were looking for a game that emphasized role-playing and use of skills over combat. I gave them an adventure in which they only used their guns once, and that right at the end. I think they all enjoyed it and went away with a positive impression of Traveller; the middle-aged gamer wanted to know if he could join my game. When he found out I lived almost three hours away from him, he was disappointed but then asked me some questions about how he could start a Traveller game with his own gaming group.

The second one had five players, two who already play T20 regularly and three who had played Traveller before but not T20. One of the latter I later bumped into playing a T20 game at a convention, so I assume his experience in my game was positive.

I know some game companies have demo teams that go out to stores, conventions and game days to run demonstrations of games. Maybe QLI could start something like that? Provide a core of several intro adventures people could run, and maybe some gift certificates or free products to give away as prizes? Gamers love swag.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Originally posted by hunter:

What we need are guerrila marketing ideas that aren't forms of SPAM.

Maybe something people could wear at conventions, game stores, etc. I know T-shirts would probably be too expensive to give out, but how about pins? They could say something like "I adventure in the far future" or "Looking for adventure in the far future? Ask me how." (Yes, I know those are corny, but marketing wasn't my major.

But I'm sure someone could come up with something that would work)

At GenCon, I was just walking from one gaming session to another carrying my Traveller messenger bag and had two people stop me to ask me about T20.

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by hunter:

Once we get closer to publication on Aldenata and Honor, I'm going to try and get with Baen and see if there is any possibility of having an add for them placed in the backs of some of their novels. I have NO idea if this is possible, but given the tie-ins, its worth a shot. I think that something like this could do more for things than anything else.

Once Aldenata and Honor get published (or very close to it), you could prepare a T20-Lite version of those rules and see if you can get them mentioned on the Baen pages as well as put on the Baen free e-books pages on the same pages as the free Aldenata and Honor books. Also, a couple of single, polite messages (with permission from the board moderators) on the Baen Bar board might work well too.

Ron

 

[Evo Plurion]

Hunter - I was referring to an earlier request I made in this thread asking your opinion on Mal's original question. I realize that you haven't time to sift through every post. I just thought you might give us some insight on Traveller's position in the RPG industry and its appeal to gamers.

I see that you're considering some new advertising directions, but as you say, there is a difference between brand awareness and sales. Brand awareness works for laundry soap and other staple items, but Traveller is a discretionary item; everyone buys soap, but we buy Traveller only if we have an interest in SFRPGing in general and Traveller in particular.

Malenfant has suggested that Traveller is unattractive to new gamers because of its apparent unsuitability as a tool to create homemade RPG universes. He cites GURPS and D20 Future as examples of games that are more attractive because they allow greater flexibility.

I believe that Traveller is what we, the gamers, make of it. Some have suggested that it would sell better if the background material were separated from the rules. Isn't that what QLI has done already? Traveller's Handbook: rules. Gateway to Destiny, TNE 1248: background.

I'm sure we'd all like Traveller sales to skyrocket. I know I would like it to be easier to find. (You may recall, Hunter, that you helped me locate it in Toronto. Thank you!) But is it as unpopular as some of these posts would suggest?

 

[Evo Plurion]

For those of you who worry that Traveller is bland or no good for coming up with your own ideas, I refer you to this post from RPGNet:

Originally posted by Dr Rotwang on RPGNet:
Dare to Dream, man...
</font>

• Troubleshooters for one of the interstellar megacorps, doing jobs both overt and covert</font>
• Spies for a Client State, trying to get dirt on the local Duke so as to coerce the Imperium for a fatter trade agreement</font>
• Young Imperial nobles, jet- (jump-?) setters, living La Vida Loca -- until war comes to the sector and it's time to grow up</font>
• Scouts exploring, cataloguing, and protecting a frontier world full of Ancient artifacts -- reinforcements are on the way, but the pirates and smugglers are closer</font>
• Organized crime members on a world that has recently joined the Imperium -- it's a whole new world of graft!</font>
• Pirates with a vendetta against a powerful Navy Sector command officer</font>
• Crew of a System Defense Boat in a system suddenly flush with traffic -- and piracy and smuggling and crime and tourists and...</font>
• Alien delegates to the Imperium, trying to work out the position of borders before war erupts, parrying and thrusting intrigues, surviving terrorist attempts on their lives, and working their own secret agendas</font>
• Refugees from a war-torn world trying to survive on a new one</font>
• Crew of a yacht owned by a demented/exiled/hunted noble</font>
• Starport Authority officers in a huge, busy starport -- SPA Blue, basically</font>
• Members of a Military/Religious order maintaing the Church's mandates in a backwater subsector full of scum and bad guys</font>
• Pocket of Psionicists looking to found an Academy in a hostile subsector</font>
• Freedom-fighters against an oppressive, rogue Imperial baron</font>

...Dare to Dream.

Bravo, Dr Rotwang!

 

[BetterThanLife]

Mass Marketting gives you Brand Awareness and you are right don't generate lots of sales. Putting people on the ground doing the selling, that is where sales are. You see them in your local WalMart or Meijer or Grocery Store, you see them going door to door selling Fuller Brushes or Alarm systems, you see them setting appointments and coming to you to sell Insurance. This isn't gurrellia sales it is the way to move the product.

The initial problem though is that if I want to buy the product I have to find it first. So simply ensuring it is on the shelves has to increase sales.

I would recommend targeting Gamestores, comic stores and College campuses first. Then target B. Daltons and Borders. (Oh and they have those nice Coffee areas for gaming....

)

Fairly inexpensive mass advertising. A newspaper ad in the College papers, perhaps. Posters for Game Stores. Styrofoam cups for B. Daltons and Borders.

As you go to Graphics in those things remember that People like to blow stuff up.

Perhaps a Screen Saver that blows up a Free Trader.

People talk about the Internet economy, though most Internet companies still aren't showing an overall profit. I would find out what it costs to be a listed vendor in Amazon.com or at least what it takes for Amazon to carry all the books you are producing.

(And I would go to Print on each of the TAs individually. But your market research might show that it works better to sell them in bigger batches.)

And my Button says I saved the Free Trader Beowulf today! Ask me how!!!

Originally posted by hunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
Hunter,
I have 20 years in one kind of sales or another. How can I help?

THough I definitely prefer one on one sales.

What I need are potential areas where we can advertise without breaking the bank, and that will also give us some better mainstream exposure. Trust me, I'd kill to be able to afford to produce a 30-second spot for the Sci-Fi channel...

Once we get closer to publication on Aldenata and Honor, I'm going to try and get with Baen and see if there is any possibility of having an add for them placed in the backs of some of their novels. I have NO idea if this is possible, but given the tie-ins, its worth a shot. I think that something like this could do more for things than anything else.

I'm always open to (reasonable) ideas that don't end up costing a fortune. I've found that most advertising results in brand awareness rather than direct sales. Brand awareness is great over time, but it takes a fair amount of money to sustain an awareness campaign.

What we need are guerrila marketing ideas that aren't forms of SPAM.

Hunter </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Malenfant]

I think there's more than enough brand awareness out there at the moment for Traveller - most people recognise the name. Problem is, it's the wrong kind of brand awareness because although people may know about it, they don't necessarily want to play it.

I don't think it's just Brand Awareness and Sales you need - you also need to change peoples' perception of the game too, which might be a lot harder. Unless of course you're actually looking outside the current market (which would be the case if you advertised in bookstores and scifi magazines and similar places), where people don't HAVE those preconceptions about the game to beat in the first place.

 

[Malenfant]

BTW, if you want more places to advertise... if you don't do it already then you could post a news item to gamingreport.com and to the TML itself whenever you get a new PDF or hardcopy product out?

 

[hirch duckfinder]

BHOINS -
those sound like a series of very strong suggestions to me from someone who knows of what they speak..

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by hirch duckfinder:
BHOINS -
those sound like a series of very strong suggestions to me from someone who knows of what they speak..

Thing is, there's presumably nothing stopping anybody else from doing that sort of thing... but they generally don't seem to use those tactics. I dunno if that's down to lack of time (heck, Hunter just implied that he previously didn't have time to send Analog a note even though he'd had the idea to put adverts in their books), resources, or maybe down to the RPG industry just not being particularly adventurous about where it advertises?

I think the idea of advertising in the back pages of the HH or Aldenata novels is rather good though. Perhaps QLI could advertise T20 in the back of Baen's other general scifi books?