Which Hyperdrive do you like?

[TKalbfus]

So far the Poll results seem to indicate that hyperspace drives are preferred. There are several varieties of hyperspace Drive.

The first is the wormhole Drive. A wormhole drive creates a temporary wormhole that pulls the starship and anything else next to the starship through and then disappears. It takes little time to fall through a wormhole (basically one combat round or less) These sorts of wormholes typically require 3 days travel outward from the star at 1-g acceleration before space is flat enough to form a wormhole. The wormhole connects to another star system requiring 3 days journey at 1-g to get in to the system where the planets are.

The second is the longneck wormhole drive. This drive forms wormholes at the 100 diameter limit, the necks of these wormholes are long however and it takes about 5 days to fall through them. Unlike jump drive however you don't need a special screen to survive inside the wormhole. Because it takes 5 days to fall through the wormhole, the wormhole must persist for at least that long and other starships can follow you through the wormhole.

The third kind of hyperdrive is the bubble in hyperspace drive. The starship forms a bubble of normal space around itself and then enter's hyperspace, it spends 5 days in this bubble and then emerges back into normal space at its destination. The classic traveller Jump drive falls into this category.

 

[Whipsnade]

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

"So far the Poll results seem to indicate that hyperspace drives are preferred."


Mr. Kalbfus,

Every think of working for Gallup or Neilsen? You'd be a natural for inferring great consequences from absolutely no data what so ever.

Your 'poll' has garnered exactly ONE vote so far and I'm assuming that vote is your's.

The only results that can be inferred from your poll is that no one cares enough to take it.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[TKalbfus]

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

"So far the Poll results seem to indicate that hyperspace drives are preferred."


Mr. Kalbfus,

Every think of working for Gallup or Neilsen? You'd be a natural for inferring great consequences from absolutely no data what so ever.

Your 'poll' has garnered exactly ONE vote so far and I'm assuming that vote is your's.

The only results that can be inferred from your poll is that no one cares enough to take it.


Sincerely,
Larsen

There were 12 voters in the last one, I just posted this last one so I assumed no one's has had time. Why the heck are you so negative Mr Whipsnade? All you seem able to do is put people down like that was your favorite passtime or something. Give it some time before you come to your conclusions.

Tom

 

[TheDS]

Maybe, perhaps, like me, he hasn't seen any other such poll? Not all of us have hung out here since time immemorable, you know. Not all of us hang out on TML, or even know where all the Trav-related sites are, and some of those sites just aren't worth visiting, since they have little if any useful information and are updated far less frequently than once a year.

So maybe he jumped the gun a bit, but on the other hand, it looked to him like you were trying to create the results you wanted to see. (It looked to me like that too, but I miss so much stuff, I immediately suspected this was a repeat of yet something else I missed.) Larsen does not put peope down for fun, as far as I have seen. He points out what most people miss, and does an excellent job of it. He's one of the few people on the internet who could convince me I was an idiot if I said something worthy of the moniker.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
Grumpy arn't they.

 

[rvatsaas]

Put it down to bad oysters......

 

[TKalbfus]

Well it looks like the respondants so far prefer the bubble in hyperspace model. I can see a number of variations to this as well.

1) There is the mini-universe model. The hyperdrive creates a short necked wormhole that pulls the starship into a mini or pocket universe and then pinches off from the rest of the universe. The pocket universe moves through hyperspace for about 5 days and then makes contact with the larger universe, forms a shortnecked universe and pulls the starship through and expells it. What was in the pocket universe is emptied out and expelled along with the starship. This mini universe has all the laws of physics that the greater universe has, except that it is small, it has curved space meaning that if the starship fires a weapon in any direction, it will hit itself. All three dimensions curve around a 4-dimensional hyperspace which cannot be seen. This hypersphere as it were floats in an outer hyperspace which also cannot be seen. The occupants can only see around the 3-dimensional "surface" of the hypersphere. The circumference, as that is all that can be measured, is 1,000 times greater than the long axis of the ship. The hyperdrive can at this point be shut off with no ill effect. The momentum of the hypersphere will bring it back into normal space of its own accord.

 

[Whipsnade]

TheDS wrote:

"So maybe he jumped the gun a bit, but on the other hand, it looked to him like you were trying to create the results you wanted to see. (It looked to me like that too, but I miss so much stuff, I immediately suspected this was a repeat of yet something else I missed.)"


DS,

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but in this case Mr. Kalbfus is spot on. I was quite the little sh*t yesterday and put myself about on a number of fora. The real trouble is that I don't know why I broke out in an advanced case of Troll's Disease. CotI wasn't the only place where I inflicted myself on others.

Rather than look at the thread in the manner it deserved, I jumped on the 'fact' that one person had responded when Mr. Kalbfus made his post. Even so, I should have responded as I did.

"Larsen does not put peope down for fun, as far as I have seen. He points out what most people miss, and does an excellent job of it. He's one of the few people on the internet who could convince me I was an idiot if I said something worthy of the moniker."

Well, I usually don't put people down for fun. Yesterday is still a mystery even to me.

As for the possibility of someone convincing you that you are an 'idiot', that should be a warning flag that they are the idiot and not you!

Thanks again, DS, and my apologies to Mr. Kalbfus.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[savage]

Aren't there a few other options for hyperspace travel? Which one would you consider to be B5 or Star Wars?

Detailed discussion of canon and option 3:
Anyhow, what about the physics theory here...
if a large ship puts a "mini-universe" around itself...wouldn't it happily be pulled along with the larger vessel...what excluses it..mass?
So, I leave my brand new T25 Hyperspanner outside the ship (Iwas fixing something before jumping).
Its still floating outside the window and wham I'm in hyperspace with it. Does it come along to Regina with me or do I have to look for a new T25?

Also, If its just a gravity well "mini-universe"
what stops the larger ship from setting up a chain of mini-universes travelling together. All linked because they were adjacent to each other.

And if that's not possible what happens if these mini-universes collide in hyperspace.


Savage

 

[TKalbfus]

Aren't there a few other options for hyperspace travel? Which one would you consider to be B5 or Star Wars?

B5 has stargates that throw spaceships into hyperspace. This hyperspace is a shared hyperspace. Creatures could even live their. A good analogy with T20 would be this. Imagine you had a starship with a special drive that opens up to the D&D elemental plane of air? The spaceship moves through the elemental plane of air some small distance, perhaps 100 miles and the opens up another gate back into space and finds itself light years from where it entered. The Star Wars hyperdrive is something like this, but not a silly.

Detailed discussion of canon and option 3:
Anyhow, what about the physics theory here...
if a large ship puts a "mini-universe" around itself...wouldn't it happily be pulled along with the larger vessel...what excluses it..mass?

Possibly nothing alot of gravity is needed to warp space into a pocket universe, a planet's gravity well should have minimum effect on this. There is a desire in Traveller however to keep FTL drives well away from planets, having a gravity well interfere is just a bogus technical excuse. If we could use a jump drive to go from planet to plane, we wouldn't need spaceships.

So, I leave my brand new T25 Hyperspanner outside the ship (Iwas fixing something before jumping).
Its still floating outside the window and wham I'm in hyperspace with it. Does it come along to Regina with me or do I have to look for a new T25?

Yep it sure does, if it is close enough. The pocket universe is made of curved space, there is no boundary you can go past to enter hyperspace. If you travel away from the spaceship in whatever direction, you'll eventually be traveling toward the spaceship. If an astronaut floats away from the spaceship and fires his laser pistol in any direction besides toward or away from the ship, he will hit himself in the back. If you look out the window of the spaceship you will see the otherside of the spaceship from which you are looking. In fact the entire sky surrounding the spacecraft will appear to be an inside-out version of the exterior of the same spacecraft blown up and stretched across the sky in all directions. If an astronaut moves away from the spacecraft, the image of the spacecraft will appear to shrink, while the image of the spacecraft he is moving away from will appear to expand after travelling a certain distance from it. Everywhere else the astronaut looks, he will see an insideout version of himself covering the whole sky. No stars are ever seen. a beam of light circles this miniuniverse and returns to its point of origin.

Also, If its just a gravity well "mini-universe"
what stops the larger ship from setting up a chain of mini-universes travelling together. All linked because they were adjacent to each other.

And if that's not possible what happens if these mini-universes collide in hyperspace.


Savage

the merge and form a bigger mini-universe. These universes travel in 4 dimensions. w, x, y, and z. 4 coordinates represent their position and for other coordinates h, i, j, and k represent their velocity vector. It may be that in hyperspace, these mini-universes aren't restricted to the speed of light. Hyperspace might not be a shortcut, but the little universes inside might could go thousands of times faster than in normal space. Another thing is that you might not necessarily return to the same universe. If you like lots of parallel universes, hyperspace might be the ticket, but only if the GM wants this.

 

[Drakon]

the merge and form a bigger mini-universe. These universes travel in 4 dimensions. w, x, y, and z. 4 coordinates represent their position and for other coordinates h, i, j, and k represent their velocity vector.

Ohhh! this gives me a nasty idea. Do merging mini-verse bubbles release energy, or cause other effects to objects inside the bubbles?

If the manifold inside one bubble was oriented or curved differently than the manifold in another, when the bubbles merge, this is going to cause problems. Depending on how permeable the bubble walls are to energy or gravitational transmission, you very well could either;

1) cause tidal stresses and gamma radiation, frying any ship internal to the bubbles,
2) send such an energy pulse through the bubble walls to collapse them, and fry anything that might be outside.
3) generate gravity waves internal to the new larger bubble that keeps echoing off the walls, and thereby consentrating the energy in the center, shaking it up (earthquakes in space?)
4) disturb the bubble's vector so that it goes wildly off course.
5) any combination of the above.

This is just what I thought of off the top of my head. Sure some of you can come up with other effects.

 

[savage]

So, your going to manuever your bubble into another?
How?

I'd doubt that a fleet of ships in bubbles travelling togethers are going to intentionally fry each other.

But more importantly, what's to assume that damaging an ajoined bubble won't wipe out yours...cause and effect.

 

[Drakon]

Good question. But sometimes kamakazi attacks can be effective. Kind of a last ditch thing.

Also, the Van Dem Broeck warp paper talks about 2 bubbles, a bubble in a bubble. How would that play out? That could be interesting.

 

[aramis]

My personal favorite is a naturally occuring wormhole drive...

ala starfire or Honorverse.