What's Coming in T5

[Supplement Four]

Interesting. Sounds like I'll have to get a hold of some of the materials and take a look.

I originally liked the T4 system until I found a fatal flaw in the mechanics--which Marc has since fixed, plus the fixing of at least one other logic problem with the mechanic. So, the system, that I've seen, looks sound, now.

I don't like players always knowing the target number, though. And, as a personal preference, I like "higher is better" systems rather than "lower is better ones". I think many players agree with that, too.

I never got the Alpha/Beta materials that were released, but from the few things I did see mentioned here and there, there are some neat ideas in the game.

I'm cautiously optimistic about T5, hoping that it will, in deed, be a superior game (unlike what Mongoose has given us).

If not, I've still got my much loved CT to use.

 

[aramis]

T4 also suffered from worse editing than MT... it wasn't qite an error on every page, but darned close, and many pages had several. Further, several books had encoding errors resulting in systematic funkiness.

The T4 Task system, even after tweaking, remained broken, tho' not badly so, even after the so-called fix. It's readily solved with a 3die variant of MT's task system. The problem is that the skill rates are about 3x those of CT (about 2.5x those of MT or MGT), and there is little incentive to raise skills instead of raising stats. (TNE avoided this by making stat gains EXPENSIVE and limited in CGen... T4 didn't.)

Not having my CD yet, I can't say if Marc fixed that issue or not, but it's doubtful.

T4 was hyped a lot, and was playable as written, but was, like so many later editions of games, not living up to the hype and coming across as a last ditch money grab. T5 having been subjected to as many years of tweaking and scrutiny as it has, hopefully is better.

I'm just hoping the other stuff in T5 makes up for the task system.

 

[HG_B]

Hmm, sounds like a 50/50 chance that it will be worthwhile. On the editing front, I've noticed since Mega, an apparent inability for a Trav game to be released without MASSIVE edit problems. This is very easily solved. Get a few literate fans to comb through it. Most would do it gratis. Tell Marc that there is this instrument called an "NDA".

 

[Andrew Boulton]

That's what's happening: everyone who preorders gets to proofread/playtest it.

 

[Blix]

If T5 is ever released then would it not be competing with Mongoose Traveller, which is already very successful?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

No more than the CT/MT/TNE/T4 reprints. And Marc gets paid either way!

 

[HG_B]

That's what's happening: everyone who preorders gets to proofread/playtest it.

Well, to a degree. He's making his proofreaders pay. Not exactly what I was referring to. But, better than NOT. Good to hear it.

 

[Blix]

No more than the CT/MT/TNE/T4 reprints. And Marc gets paid either way!

I would argue that those sell because of nostalgia, or because people want electronic versions of their old books. T5 does not have that selling point (and around here at least, T4 is viewed as one of the worst versions of Traveller ever published among those that I have played Traveller with, so it isn't encouraging for me to hear that it is similar to T4).

What would T5 offer that Mongoose Traveller does not? Is T5 even compatible with the Mongoose rules?

 

[HG_B]

I would argue that those sell because of nostalgia, or because people want electronic versions of their old books. T5 does not have that selling point (and around here at least, T4 is viewed as one of the worst versions of Traveller ever published among those that I have played Traveller with, so it isn't encouraging for me to hear that it is similar to T4).

What would T5 offer that Mongoose Traveller does not? Is T5 even compatible with the Mongoose rules?

I have heard similar from people I play with (T4 being least favorite). I hope it is far better than Mongoose. That rule set has more internal inconsistencies than I can shake stick at. Mega (after applying errata) had the best overall rules for characters, ship building, etc.

 

[aramis]

Is T5 even compatible with the Mongoose rules?

About as much as T4 was.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Testing...

 

[robject]

MGT is publishing now, and so you can play a current version of Traveller now. You'll have to keep waiting for T5 v1.0.

I think MGT in many ways is more like CT.

To me, Traveller5 brings it all together in playable ways that MegaTraveller wanted to, but couldn't.

Traveller5 goes into more depth with design than Mongoose Traveller; it owes some of this to a deeper coherence between features. But there is some compatibility with weapons, armor, vehicles, and (to a large extent) starships between MGT and T5. Player characters can map between systems, but the skill levels are necessarily different -- close to 2:1. So they're not as inter-compatible as stuff.

T5, however, in some ways sticks closer to Traveller in spirit. T5 brings the good concepts from all four of its ancestors -- CT, MT, TNE, and T4 -- together coherently. The result, from a design perspective, seems to be more like MegaTraveller than anything else, although it seems equally distant from all 4 systems. And adds in things that no system had.

Examples:

Chargen is not T4-based, but it's just as different from CT/MT as well.

Weapons and armor and vehicles are aligned to CT, but they're more like MT in detail, and are system-consistent: created by a design system (that's different and more accessible than Striker or FFSx, by the way).

Starships look like CT designs, but have features from MT, TNE and T4, and does it in a way that no version of Traveller ever has. It presents the possibility of "upgrading" Book 2 and HG designs into T5. Again, some detail is sacrificed for usability, but there's full playability and applicability to the Traveller universe. Unlike CT, but perhaps a bit like MT or TNE or T4, you can design ships from any milieu, from Yaskoydray's wars to the Interstellar Wars thru TNE and beyond, with close to the same general complexity as High Guard (simpler in some important ways, but more detailed in other important ways)... and the Type S Scout still looks like the Type S Scout.

Robots are finally, fully, seamlessly integrated with Traveller, coherent with the game mechanics... and with computers.

All of the above examples, plus more, are reality, now, on the Pre-Playtest CD + the forum updates.


That coherency is part of what's taking so long. For example, Marc's been building starship design, one phase at a time, off and on for awhile now. He progressed from drives, to the hull, then sensors, then weapons, then defenses, fittings, computers. A couple months ago armor finally settled in. Now the bridge is getting defined.

The result is (for example) a complete set of sensors, ready to use out of the box, but which can be adjusted in standard ways that have playable results and are consistent with personal sensing equipment.


And yes, the playtesters did pay for their privilege. But they also wanted to buy T5 in the first place, have the updated PDFs now, and will get version 1.0 when it's ready. The resulting forum is highly effective: constructive in criticism, helpful in errata discovery and fixing, and civil with one another. We have a few hundred sets of critical eyes proofreading the chapters independently. I'll tell you, when the CD came out, the errata poured in, and Marc (who's not fastidious about spelling) was fixing errors fulltime.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think I'm going to like T5 much, much more than MGT.

But, will T5 cut the mustard vs. CT? That remains the question.

Still, it will be an exciting day when T5 is released.

Once it is released, though, I doubt we can expect much in the way of support, huh? Adventures, sourcebooks, etc, all using the T5 mechanics?

 

[robject]

I think I'm going to like T5 much, much more than MGT.

I think you will like T5. And if you do, you won't have to import anything from MGT. You might still import something from Classic Traveller; but as I say below, that depends.

But, will T5 cut the mustard vs. CT? That remains the question.

It depends on where your tipping point is. I mentioned some of my preferences already. As soon as the last important game element for me (starship design) from The Traveller Book was satisfactorially replaced, I was able to finally set it aside, but there is still some unfinished business.

Once it is released, though, I doubt we can expect much in the way of support, huh? Adventures, sourcebooks, etc, all using the T5 mechanics?

There are plans for perhaps a dozen various adventures and a number of resources, but they'd better not take as long as T5's core rules or we'll never see them. And these have their own hurdles.

There is also milieu support and some ATU support, due to the depth and width of core material already written. So milieu sourcebooks will essentially just be waiting to be written; the support is already there.

 

[robject]

But, will T5 cut the mustard vs. CT? That remains the question.
...
Once it is released, though, I doubt we can expect much in the way of support, huh? Adventures, sourcebooks, etc, all using the T5 mechanics?

There's a matter of what needs to be done versus what already exists. Existing resources can be used with any rules system, such as the bulk of alien modules and even things like the LBB adventures.

Let me comment on aliens. They work coherently inside T5's core, so they don't need extra bolt-on rules; that's new. And they all work like that now -- including the ones that haven't been invented yet. But all the background text, like from the alien modules? No need to rewrite that.

So to some extent, existing Traveller resources will still be resources for T5. It would be silly to not use them.

Granted, new adventures are the one thing I DO want to see, and I want them to take me to new places but in familiar territory. Note that Mongoose is publishing adventures now, some written by familiar faces, and those will be generally useful with any rules system. But I do want bona-fide "T5" adventures.

But I'm a lite wargamer, too, so I want T5 to cater to that nook of my personality. I want to send TL24 Skoydresp CruRons against a Oyiskoy BatRon and see who comes out on top, and I want to reenact fleet battles of the Barracks Emperors.

 

[Garnfellow]

Is there a default OTU time period for T5 material?

 

[robject]

Is there a default OTU time period for T5 material?

That's a good question. No. A fundamental concept is that T5 rules are designed to fully support the OTU at any time period.

Even so, note that, of necessity, the game is still human-centered. For example, career resolution is still term-based and lifepath-based, with career types we all understand. So T5 can reasonably support human milieux out of the box, such as the Ziru Sirka, the Barracks Emperors, the Fourth Imperium, and so on.

Also note that data samples are taken from the Third Imperium. So Regina is given as an example of star system generation, for example. But not all examples are from the Third Imperium. Oh no.

So in a manner similar to the Little Black Books, support for adventures and milieux come in supplements.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Are there any new races?

And, somewhat important, are all the subset human species included in the basic ruleset? How about old familiar staples like Aslan and Vargr?

 

[robject]

Are there any new races?

A really good question.

The core rules don't create any new races.

OK, that's not quite true. There are a few, but they're given as examples, not with an in-depth treatment and not intended to figure prominently as any sort of setting; again, the core rules establish the mechanics, and with them a referee can create new races, and specify how they interact with the universe.

But the main point I wanted to make up-front is that the core rules don't establish a milieu, and so don't pour in a lot of setting data.


If you reveled in the ability to create new star systems, or vehicles, or starships for Traveller, that's what sophont generation offers. Support for the Alternate Traveller Universe is bolstered, while also providing a consistent baseline for sophont design.

And, somewhat important, are all the subset human species included in the basic ruleset?

Wow, that's an even better question. I don't think the subsets have been done yet. You're talking about the Darrians, for example, which have distinctives that set them apart from general humanity but are still genetically human.

But you also may be talking about some that may have been tinkered with. There's a special set of rules for dealing with genetic engineering... for example, a sophont group whose DNA has been spliced with another sophont group are called chimeras, and there's a good, sometimes unsettling, treatment of them and related concepts.

The short answer is no, these subsets have not yet been adapted to T5. But they need to. That might be a fun fan-based project.

How about old familiar staples like Aslan and Vargr?

Draft sophont templates were cooked up and posted to playtest for review and suggestions. They're not finalized, though all is currently quiet.

Marc has an old draft of the K'Kree, another playtester has made a draft of Hivers, and I've worked on drafts of Shriekers, Aslan, Droyne, and Vargr. The trick, however, is that each has to be adapted, and so design decisions are made in key places. I think it likely that someone who is expert in Droyne could make a better template than mine. Similarly with Aslan. Vargr are tricky as well. Defining them in terms of T5 was pretty fun; I got to ask myself what really is a Vargr? in terms of playability. CT really gave us very little to go on, and T5 has a wide scope.

I've also made drafts of the Xiang, Eber, Klaxun, Sung, and Ylii from 2300AD, just to see how it would work out.

We will need templates for all Traveller minor races.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, thanks. Yeah, as far as the various human subsets go, I did mean Darrians, Geonese, the Vilani variants and so forth. I'm looking forward to this new publication.

Oh, one more thing, it sounds like there's a lot of "original intent" going on in this new Traveller iteration; i.e. no specific milieu, but a generic RPG as Traveller was originally designed to be.

Thanks for the reply.