What works? How are ships and vehicles armed?

[Badenov]

There has never been a warships supplement for LBB:2

I have perhaps asked the question the wrong way around. What does LBB2 have, in regards to spaceships, that LBB5 doesn't cover? Not so much with regards to different numbers to hit and different damage tables; LBB5 has those things, they're just different. Is there anything in LBB2 with regards to ships that isn't addressed at all in LBB5, or is significantly different. An example would be small ship crew minimums, as a 100-ton scout doesn't need a 10-person command section.

 

[kilemall]

No grouping or bonuses in LBB2. A triple turret gets three attacks (or six attacks with Double fire), potentially several times per round.



They manoeuvre like ships, and if they get close enough to the target, they attack. If you muck up the vector movement, they miss.

Bit more to missiles then that. There is an ECM roll if the defending ship has the computer program. The anti missile program allows a laser PD shot like LBB5.

The missile supplement allows upgraded missiles to ignore ECM, improved warheads that do more damage, nuke warheads, and a possibility of trying for a direct kinetic impact with the missile body potentially doing a good deal more damage.

The batteries in general are aggregating rolls, otherwise the rolls would be up to 30 times for individual shots.

 

[mike wightman]

A newtonian movement system for combat
single person crew for 100 to 199t ships
different crew requirements 200t to 1000t
one gunner per turret not per battery
computer programs that modify combat rolls rather then the blanket computer difference DM.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I have perhaps asked the question the wrong way around. What does LBB2 have, in regards to spaceships, that LBB5 doesn't cover? Not so much with regards to different numbers to hit and different damage tables; LBB5 has those things, they're just different. Is there anything in LBB2 with regards to ships that isn't addressed at all in LBB5, or is significantly different. An example would be small ship crew minimums, as a 100-ton scout doesn't need a 10-person command section.

LBB2 has more detailed combat: Vector movement, ammo limitations, reload times, etc, etc.

LBB5 has more abstracted combat to facilitate larger ships: No movement, weapon grouped into batteries for fewer rolls, etc.


LBB5 uses LBB2 rules for small ship crews.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Bit more to missiles then that. There is an ECM roll if the defending ship has the computer program. The anti missile program allows a laser PD shot like LBB5.

The missile supplement allows upgraded missiles to ignore ECM, improved warheads that do more damage, nuke warheads, and a possibility of trying for a direct kinetic impact with the missile body potentially doing a good deal more damage.

Oh, sure, I was just commenting on hit or miss. There's no to hit roll, you have to manoeuvre the missiles yourself.

The batteries in general are aggregating rolls, otherwise the rolls would be up to 30 times for individual shots.

Yes, in LBB5. In LBB2 you are supposed to roll the 30 individual attack rolls, potentially up to five (?) times per round.

 

[Spinward Flow]

What does LBB2 have, in regards to spaceships, that LBB5 doesn't cover?
Is there anything in LBB2 with regards to ships that isn't addressed at all in LBB5, or is significantly different.

A newtonian movement system for combat
single person crew for 100 to 199t ships
different crew requirements 200t to 1000t
one gunner per turret not per battery
computer programs that modify combat rolls rather then the blanket computer difference DM.

Spidey Business Opportunity Senses™ are tingling.

LBB2 style vector combat would work a LOT better on a Virtual TableTop (VTT) style of application. Would require a bit of specialized programming to automate various factors (gravity wells, aerobraking, rendezvous for docking maneuvers, etc.) but since the movement is inherently newtonian (acceleration using thrust) a lot of stuff would be relatively straightforward in terms of computations.

The REAL advantage of a VTT style app for LBB2 combat context would be the power to Zoom In/Zoom Out and the fact that your map areas could be "parking lot" sized, rather than just 1m² of carpeted floor space.

With the right background programming support, you'd even be able to do "proper" 3D representations of positioning, which for convenience could be reoriented into a 2D plane when dealing with 2 objects (craft and/or planetary bodies/natural satellites).

For the "true overachievers" you could even go so far as to include (proper/correct) orbital mechanics into the vector simulation, such that craft in space "don't fly like airplanes" when thrust is applied to them in order to get them to accelerate (why hello, Kerbal Space Program, what are you doing here?).

 

[Dragoner]

I added my variant rules here in this thread: https://www.travellerrpg.com/threads/kosmic-chapter-7-space-combat.44727/

 

[Drew]

Can anyone direct me to the answer for the following question? Where/how do merchant ships replenish their stock of missiles (assuming that they are the smaller type)? Yes, there are likely black-market sources or those salvaged from wrecked or abandoned ships. Does an independent trader go up to the Starport authority or the ship chandler's office and order 20 kinetic missiles? I would assume sector or larger trading lines have already established a contract with a provisioner for their resupply. Are these ASPs co-located at a Starport or an Orbital Space station?

 

[mike wightman]

They just buy them at the starport.

 

[whartung]

They just buy them at the starport.

Yup, they come in blister packs next to the gum at checkout lines.

They're just missiles, they're allowed to have them, there's likely some perfunctory identity check.

There's, also, likely some Arms Master that you talk to at the 'port that will direct you.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Can anyone direct me to the answer for the following question? Where/how do merchant ships replenish their stock of missiles (assuming that they are the smaller type)? Yes, there are likely black-market sources or those salvaged from wrecked or abandoned ships. Does an independent trader go up to the Starport authority or the ship chandler's office and order 20 kinetic missiles? I would assume sector or larger trading lines have already established a contract with a provisioner for their resupply. Are these ASPs co-located at a Starport or an Orbital Space station?

Ordnance Resupply (missiles):

• Cr5000 per HE Missile container (LBB2.81, p17)
• Requires Tech Level: 7+ (LBB5.80, p25)
• Law Level: 7- to be available for sale to private buyers (LBB SS3, p3 and p14)
• Population: 7+ is recommended for domestic production of HE Missile containers since Population: 6- will require import of kits which can raise prices to cover interstellar transport costs (add Cr50 per HE Missile container per parsec to nearest Population: 7+ production supplier)

 

[mike wightman]

Starport law level is not the same as world law level.

"In nearly all cases, a planet will consider that a starport is extraterritorial, and not subject to local law, but will also enforce strict entrance and exit controls...
Law level does not apply to persons and ships at a starport, as local laws do not apply in such areas."

 

[kilemall]

As I recall there was a blurb about missiles being automatically available at IND worlds. Missile supplement?

 

[Spinward Flow]

As I recall there was a blurb about missiles being automatically available at IND worlds. Missile supplement?

LBB S3 Revised contains only a single use of the word "industrial" in its pages (on p3).
Here it is:

 

[Condottiere]

If you can build rocket drives, you can build missiles.

The question would be more of how many.

Considering the low technological requirements of many listed, not exactly difficult.

 

[mike wightman]

As I recall there was a blurb about missiles being automatically available at IND worlds. Missile supplement?

You recall correctly, it says:

"Tech Levels: The various components of missiles have their tech levels noted in the text. These tech levels are the standard tech level for that component and determine on what worlds these components may be manufactured. The primary effect of tech level is on cost.
The credit cost of a component at its standard tech level is shown in the text. At two less than the standard tech level, the cost is 200% of the base price. At one less than the standard tech level, the cost is 150% of the base price. At one greater than the standard tech level, the cost is 90% of base price. At two or more greater than the standard tech level, the cost is 80% of the base price. Components cannot be manufactured if local tech level is three less than standard tech level.
Non-industrial worlds, for various reasons, cannot manufacture missile components and they are not available on such worlds.
Law Levels: Most missile components are available for purchase at the starport of any world capable of producing them. Some components (specifically warheads) may not be available due to local law level restrictions."

Later in the data annex
"LAW LEVELS
Law levels have no effect except for warheads. Nuclear, fusion, and enhanced radiation warheads are illegal at law levels 4+ ; all warheads are illegal at law levels 8+."

Note that once again this is written for the "isolated world" paradigm. In a sub-sector or sector wide polity then trade between worlds should make missiles components available at every starport regardless of the local world.

Also non-Industrial worlds can still have an A class starport - they can assemble starships but not missiles?

As to law level once again the law level of the starport is determined by the polity that operates the starport, not the world.

 

[mike wightman]

If you can build rocket drives, you can build missiles.

Missiles don't use rockets, their performance is way beyond what a chemically propelled rocket is capable of.

 

[aramis]

Missiles don't use rockets, their performance is way beyond what a chemically propelled rocket is capable of.

Irrelevant to the truth of missiles. If you can build 1960's rockets, you can build up to 20 G-minute missles.
That's a really sucky Traveller missile, at 1G1, but it's just enough to matter.

 

[mike wightman]

Not in 50kg you can't.

 

[Badenov]

Missiles don't use rockets, their performance is way beyond what a chemically propelled rocket is capable of.

I'm sure in 2025, that's the case. In 2525, who can say? And in any event, it's called Science Fiction for a reason.