What will be needed to play?

[PaMar]

Hope this has not been discussed to death. My question is, what will we actually need to buy/download beside the core book in order to be able to play the T20?

I am not familiar with the D20 licence, so I may possibily be wrong in thinking you need the Player's Handbook in order to play any D20 game. Am I right, or will the basic T20 rulebook include all the rules needed to play (i.e. Classes/Task resolution etc.)?

Any other supplemental stuff needed?

TIA,




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[The Shoveller]

Lotsa dice!

Dice shopping is one of the greatest pleasures involved in D20 gaming! You really make personal statements about yourself with the dice you use regularly.

You will have to do a lot of dice shopping. You will find that flying 20 siders are a socially acceptable statement of anger and frustration over poor die roll. You will also find the act of making said 20 siders fly is much more satisfying than making 6 sided dice fly. Anyway, with all those 20 siders flying around, one needs an inventory of handy replacements.

 

[hunter]

The Player's Handbook would be required for basic character creation, and applying earned experience points towards character advancement.

Most of the rest of the mechanics can be explained by us in the core rules if we so choose.

The question is whether to include rules in the T20 book, that already appear in the PHB and have not changed.

On one hand, it allows for minimal reference to the PHB. On the other hand it takes up space that could otherwise be used for MORE core Traveller material.

A decision has not been made, though we are leaning towards more Traveller material, and refering back to the PHB where the rules remain without change.

Hunter

 

[AndreaV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
A decision has not been made, though we are leaning towards more Traveller material, and refering back to the PHB where the rules remain without change.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you're going to need the PHB anyway, why waste the space duplicating the material? Player's will have it anyway. I'd much prefer more Traveller and less mechanics (mind you, I say that about everything

)

 

[DrSkull]

I agree that if this is aimed at D20 players, they already have the D&D PHB so don't waste space repeating PHB rules.

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Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[kzin]

Though, depending on which rules you end up using for things like hit points and critical hits and stuff (and perhaps which classes you have), you might want to ask WOTC if you can have an exception that says "requires Star Wars Core Rule book" instead of the D&D core rule books. This might help avoid people thinking "D&D in space".

You might ALSO try to license the d20 rules from WOTC under a different license than the OGL and d20 logo license. Why? Because that might allow you to include all of the rules you need instead of having to refer to the D&D core rules or something. They'll want a royalty or something, I'm sure. But if they're concious, they should see the potential of having Traveller in the d20 fold, too. I would hope they'd be reasonable.


(I mean, if you've got a solider how different will it be from the Star Wars soldier class? Just ignore the AC bonus and use it as is?)

(for those that don't know, the Star Wars game encourages the way high level characters in Star Wars seem to all go without armor by giving characters an AC bonus as they advance in level (more for Soldiers, less for Nobles, but still there) that you can only use if you AREN'T wearing armor, so at low levels it makes more sense to wear armor and at high levels it makes more sense not to)

 

[Veldrin]

I agree, keep the PHB as a reference for all unchanged rules.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:


A decision has not been made, though we are leaning towards more Traveller material, and refering back to the PHB where the rules remain without change.

Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Erifnogard]

For what its worth, I vote don't repeat info from the PHB unnecesarily. If you substantially change something, that's one thing, but as has been pointed out the primary target audience probably own the PHB anyway.

 

[evilpheemy]

Print the core rules in the core rule book. If I'm playing Traveller, I'd rather haul only one 200+ page book around than three (PHB, DMG, T20).

 

[Phil]

Just another voice in favor of referencing the PHB, with one caveat. I don't mind looking up topics (a particular feat), or sections of rules (unarmed combat), but I can't stand flipping back and forth every other sentence. Besides, the way I understand the d20 license, you have to require the PHB anyway, so why waste your ink printing something that is contractually required? I'd rather see more Traveller specific information in the book.

 

[Hambone]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evilpheemy:
Print the core rules in the core rule book. If I'm playing Traveller, I'd rather haul only one 200+ page book around than three (PHB, DMG, T20).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agreed! I don't want to even look at my D&D PHB when playing T20! I wouldn't mind a seperate T20 PHB & T20 Refs Guide though . . .

And definately take your time to release a good solid product and pay the extra for the hardback printing - credibility is important in the marketplace, IMHO!

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Hambone
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[Secrect Cow Level]

I realize this is a somewhat old topic, but I'd like to chime in. I'd like as little referencing to the PHB as possible. It makes the book easier to use if as many of the rules as possible are in the T20 book. It sounds like hit points and char gen are going to have some big differences to D&D so T20 specific rules changes will need to be explained anyway. Besides, just how much detail on year 1000 do we need in the basic game? A seperate sourcebook should be published to cover every tiny bit of detail on Gateway circa 1000. This way players who prefer to flesh out the setting themselves will only need the core rules and people wanting far greater published detail can buy a sourcebook tailored to their needs.

[This message has been edited by Secrect Cow Level (edited 07 July 2001).]

 

[Carjack]

I also think not repeating the PHB data is a good idea. The amount of time I actually spend flipping through the PHB during game is usually to find out about a spell, and I think T20 will not provide me with that difficutly.
Besides, I'm already hauling at least three books to my game anyway, what's the big deal with having to haul two??

 

[Reginald]

I'm from the old school, where my first introduction into RPG is lugging the three AD&D books around. Of course, back then the books were thin.

I don't know how QuikLink is going to provide you with a d20-based standalone core rulebook. If they're going to use the royalty-free d20 System Trademark License (now available on the Wizards' website ... www.Wizards.com/d20 ) they have to abide by the restrictions and that includes no reprint of the character creation rules and no reprint of the level advancement rules (in case you're wondering, it's on pages 145 & 146 in the Player's Handbook).

The reason why they may go this route is because they want to tap in to Wizards' large customer base which consist of D&D/d20 gamers. That's how profitable having a trademarked logo on your product. Like when you're shopping for a computer, some people prefer a PC with an Intel processor and so look for the computer with the Intel Inside logo.

If they don't want these restrictions, then QuikLink should consider the royalty-free Open Gaming License. This allow you to make a standalone core rulebook complete with a character creation rules and level advancement rules and use any and all published Open Gaming Contents, including those from the d20 System Reference Document which contains the stripped-down version of the D&D rules and designated as Open Gaming Content.

However, there is one drawback. You cannot slap a d20 System logo on your product. You cannot advertise that your product uses the d20 System. You cannot advertise that your product is compatible with D&D and any d20-based products out there. The customers may have to arrive to those conclusions ... or not.

The last route is the most expensive because it involves paying a royalty to the trademark owner. Strike a deal with WotC to get their agreement to use the d20 logos on your products.

Now assuming Quiklink do choose this, and assuming that they are also paying a royalty to Far Future Enterprises (or Marc Miller) who owns the Traveller trademarks, the only way for this company to gain profit for their services in making this product is to tacked the cost of the royalties onto the consumers. Result: a rulebook with a very high price tag.

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Anyhoo... just some random thoughts

[This message has been edited by Reginald (edited 07 July 2001).]

 

[Anubis]

Wait a mimnute...

let me get this straight: You need a WOTC book (D&D or Star Wars) to play Traveller D20? That's a joke, right? I sure hope it is, because that would be a knock-dead reason _not_ to buy it. I think _all_ rules should be in the core book.

cya
Stephan

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anubis:
Wait a mimnute...

let me get this straight: You need a WOTC book (D&D or Star Wars) to play Traveller D20? That's a joke, right? I sure hope it is, because that would be a knock-dead reason _not_ to buy it. I think _all_ rules should be in the core book.

cya
Stephan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To carry the D20 logo, certain material must be left out and refered back to in the D&D3E Players Handbook. That's how the D20 license works.

So yes, you will need a copy of the D&D3E Player's Handbook to play T20.

Hunter

 

[far-trader]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...Regina Com-Cen this is the far-trader Empress Poppaea inbound...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...or in other words, greetings. This is my first posting (here or anywhere) so please forgive any newbie lapses in etiquette and/or form. I first looked into this board some time back, and more recently at the first news of T20. I always meant to check back sooner but here I am now after reading and digesting all that I missed, so on to the reply...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hunter

To carry the D20 logo, certain material must be left out and refered back to in the D&D3E Players Handbook. That's how the D20 license works.
So yes, you will need a copy of the D&D3E Player's Handbook to play T20.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That seems like a pretty definitive and final answer there Hunter. Its also disappointing as I have to agree with those who want the full meal deal, but I can live with a side order of the most basic d20 rules left out, as previously noted below...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Reginald

I don't know how QuikLink is going to provide you with a d20-based standalone core rulebook. If they're going to use the royalty-free d20 System Trademark License (now available on the Wizards' website ...www.Wizards.com/d20...) they have to abide by the restrictions and that includes no reprint of the character creation rules and no reprint of the level advancement rules (in case you're wondering, it's on pages 145 & 146 in the Player's Handbook).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The arguments for a full core book are all good. Honestly, (to reverse the WotC rules a sec) how many sales of 3rd Ed D&D would have been lost if the players and dm had to buy a copy of the d20 StarWars book for the "core" rules. I guess this is one final plea to make Core T20 a single volume but you gotta do what you gotta do.

To stray slightly off topic I'd like to throw my voice behind some format preferences. Briefly: I'd like to see a hardcover book with artwork, and a couple deckplans (a whole discussion topic in itself, don't get me started...), maybe the Scout and Free-Trader and a small Starport or Base. Whatever you do, please for the love of all that is merciful and good beg, kidnap or pay some proof-readers with a good knowledge of Traveller whose first language is English (I missed all the "me, me too" for playtesting :-( but you can consider me willing and available for proof-reading). Just one more idea, I know this opens up a whole, impossible to control your well deserved profit can of worms, but I'd love an electronic format version, like PDF on a CD.

My apologies for the length and thanks for the forum. Long live the Empire.

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anubis:
Wait a mimnute...

let me get this straight: You need a WOTC book (D&D or Star Wars) to play Traveller D20? That's a joke, right? I sure hope it is, because that would be a knock-dead reason _not_ to buy it. I think _all_ rules should be in the core book.

cya
Stephan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just like you need the D&D 3E PH to play the Sword & Sorcery produced D20, or the (possibly) d20 Harn; for the forseeable future, it lookslike the only new d20 books that may be complete are the "Wheel of Time" and "Call of Cthulu", as these are being done in-house by WOTC (COC is licensed by WOTC from Chaosium, and WoT direct from the Author; both announced by WOTC in the last few months).

And Hunter has mentioned that the SW is off-limits as a prerequisite... probably due to a LFL license issue, IMHO.

But, in play, you really won't need to reference it once players know how to level up and spend their skill points. (The little bit off-limits is trivial, and easily memorable.) And all the stuff missing should be available in 3E, SW, and maybe CoC or WoT.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

[This message has been edited by aramis (edited 15 July 2001).]

 

[The Gneech]

The d20 Core Rules are also available online for free.
http://www.wizards.com/D20/main.asp?x=welcome,3

-The Gneech


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"I pity da fool, thug, or soul who tries to take over the world and then goes home cryin' to his momma!" -Mr. T

 

[Nurd_boy]

so,
let me get this straight then.
all the development, playtesting and research will only result in a glorified 'high-tech' suppliment for D$D?

becuse THAT's sure what it sounds like if you HAVE to have the DMG/PHB to refence 'omitted' rules....

anyone think about using the D6 system from west end games? or the chaosium system from runequest/strombringer? or developing your own D10 system (and open licensing THAT!)

frankly,I will not spend my hard earned credits on a D$D suppliment...no matter if I like the game mechanic itself or not.

no offense Mark, but the whole open license thing does sound like a Wotc pyramid scheme...