What was wrong with CT?

[jackleg]

There is nothing wrong with CT. It has provided thousands of hours of entertainment for thousands of fans. It works. Just like a '82 Buick Regal in 1982. There have been a lot of changes in rpg's since CT hase been released. Players have moved beyond rolling for stats and then rolling for a career and skills. They want to create naval officer they will create one instead of getting a two term 'other' with pistol-1 and air/raft-2.

The one thing that has kept CT from expanding is that GDW never promoted another background. TSR had Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Dark Sun to name a few. CT was linked to the 3rd Imperium and has never let go of it, even in current editions(d20&gurps). Where is the CT universe where they have ftl communication? Or possibly humaniti is fighting a race of parasitic worms that need human brains to kick start their own intelligence. They were in the fans hands and no one got to see them except the people they gamed with at the time.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by robject:
If I have offended you, then I ask your forgiveness.

nah, you didn't offend me. I was really just illustrating that generalising about what people want, expect, need, or think is good about Traveller is bound to lead to disagreements. Not everyone is as keen on T5 as you seem to be.

You did show interest in our interest in T5, though, I presume? Thus your posts in this forum?

You'll note that all my posts about T5 have been *against* the idea. I'm not interested in T5 itself, I'm more interested in discussing whether there's any point to it. I tend to remind people that their wistful thinking is just that - some of the 'evangelism' I've seen for T5 has been plain ridiculous. The fact is that T5 will not revolutionise the roleplaying industry as some people seem to expect, and I'm pretty certain that the only people who will really appreciate its existence will be the diehard minority of Traveller fans who have been waiting for ages for it to come out. Everyone else seems to be happy with what they have.

I've gathered that some people want to game using a 'final evolution' of the CT system, but beyond that I see little justification for T5, and no place for it in the current RPG market. If it does come out, I'd imagine the most sensible way to do a T5 would be as a PDF file of the final ruleset without any setting attached.

 

[Renard Ruche]

Originally posted by Dynamo:
You also can't have any ship over 1000 tons either.

Sorry about the double post, Travellers....first time posting to the Board. Just wanted to point out you can design ships up to 5000 tons, and with some quick math, up to 10,000 tons.

I haven't actively played Traveller in about 18 (yikes!!) years, but it has always had a special place in my heart mainly because I never got to play that much, as everyone I knew wanted to play D&D, never could get a steady group going).

However, I have recently begun collecting and re-reading the Granddaddy version, and I have to admit, if I got a group together today (and I'm thinking about it!), I would actually use Books 1-3, and keep it very simple, adding in the DGP Task System (if you can find the older description from Grand Survey/Grand Census, the system is explained in deep yet simple detail and much easier to grasp than how it is set out in MT - IMO).

I want a nice, simple framework, not a lot of rules. I own MT and T20, and my eyes start to glaze over a bit when I get about halfway in. There are some great ideas, but (IMO), RPGs should be about a story, not about what part of the body your slug-thrower hits

(I also realize that this is a matter of personal taste - no offense meant)

Also, I believe one of the greatest strengths of the LBBs was the absolute lack of a campaign setting. I have about four different ideas of a campaign world I could run in CT, ranging from a system-wide campaign, to a full sector, and all of them are possible from the rules provided.


I admit, there are some limitations to the LBBs, but for a group of two or three people who simply want to spend and hour or tweleve spinning yarns about adventures in space, nothing gives a better basic framework than the LBBs.

(Man, when did I turn into a CT prolestyler[sp]??)

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Originally posted by Lord Iron Wolf:
In the discussion of character generation detail and the death of characters, I believe it was game balance for the lethality of staying in too long.

If you stayed in a long time (continued generating a character) the resulting character was very formitable. The two things that balanced this were the chance of death and the effects of aging. It gave the player a choice of having a good character alive or trying to push it and have an excellent character with the inherant danger of destroying them.

Scouts...com'on! a good chance of getting a scout courior free and paid for to travel around the known and unknown stars with that could refuel anywhere. That's worth taking a risk for!

Character generation is a game within a game and risking the odds for higher payoffs is always part of a good game.

Lord Iron Wolf

When I DM my first traveller game in the first 3 hours very player character in character generation
so I make a rule that no one die in character generation so I can get the game going. I have rolled up character that die in their first term.

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

I would say just leave in the chance of death but explain to the players the risk involved in trying to get a high powered character. It's always fun to see how far a player will gamble to gain something.

This no chance of death really takes an edge off of many modern games.

LIW

 

[ACK!!]

What was wrong with Classic Traveller?

What do I have to adjust considering I got into CT sideways?

I went from MT tried TNE and then moved back to the LBB's when they went on re-print.

I use Hyphen's combat rules with just a few minor adjustments like initiative is completely individual based not side based.

I use Andy Slack's Experience Rule.

I use the Digest Group Task System.

Honestly, give me a set of tweaked out MT rules and I am happy.

BTW, some people say that they liked the T4 combat system. What was it like?

My house rules fit one page here -- IMTU

What was the best system for creating a Starship or Vehicle since I am not a gearhead?

 

[mike wightman]

What was the best system for creating a Starship or Vehicle since I am not a gearhead?

Good question.
My answer starts with another question. Do you want to build small, 100 to 5000t ships(Book 2), multi-kt monsters or both(Book 5)?

IMHO Book 2 design is quick and easy (and you can borrow weapons from Book 5). After a few goes ship designs take only a few minutes. You just select components from a couple of tables, add it all up to make sure it fits in the hull, and off you go.

Book 5 ship designs can be used for both scales but requires a little more time due to the % based components. But again, after a few goes ship design is easy.

Give them both a try and see what you think.

 

[Jame]

They fixed the limited career paths and skills with the supplements. So that's no matter.

But by my own godliness, those tech levels were seemingly repressed! If T5 ever comes out, I'd say fix the technological progression to take the real world into account. I tried to email Marc about this, but after several months I think he's ignoring me...

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Jame]:
They fixed the limited career paths and skills with the supplements. So that's no matter.

But by my own godliness, those tech levels were seemingly repressed! If T5 ever comes out, I'd say fix the technological progression to take the real world into account. I tried to email Marc about this, but after several months I think he's ignoring me...

Check out the laundry list I posted up for the Wish List thread.

IMHO, MT got a bad rap. The Rebellion and the assasination may not have floated my boat. However, it tied up a lot of loose ends putting the digest group task stuff and the pen/atten combat system of striker all into perspective and in place. I liked that. Sure, people say but I already had all that. I say cool for you buddy but not everyone started collected the LBBs in 1977 and had all the JTAS and Traveller Digest issues on hand. For some of us, MT added a lot more value.

Just give me CT with a bit of MT and T4 even from what I am hearing.

Lots of Pictures. Lots of equipment and lots of weapons. New stuff for canon like monofiliment blades so characters can chop their own leg off in a fumble.

I liked the picture on t5 site of a proposed (not sure by whom) front cover with the Little Black Book feel but a nice picture to catch the newbie eye.

 

[eiladayn]

I like CT, it's my favorite RPG, but the younger players I've tried to get interested have had one major complaint. I would very much like to overcome this one complaint and beg for suggestions. They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills. They have no problem with the stats or even the progression, its the lack of control over WHICH skills their character receives. Does anyone else have this problem, have you solved this problem, do you even consider it a problem?

Thanks,
Pappy

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by eiladayn:
I like CT, it's my favorite RPG, but the younger players I've tried to get interested have had one major complaint. I would very much like to overcome this one complaint and beg for suggestions. They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills. They have no problem with the stats or even the progression, its the lack of control over WHICH skills their character receives. Does anyone else have this problem, have you solved this problem, do you even consider it a problem?

Thanks,
Pappy

some options:

1) Get a copy of the MT player's handbook, and use the CG tables in there. (More cascades, more choices)

2) have them roll the 1d for skill, then pick the table.

it was enough of a problem that MT used more cascades to provide more options. I sometimes use BOTH the above... can get some really tailored characters that way!

 

[flykiller]

They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills.

I have them roll up normally, then let them choose one skill per term served, either upgrades or new ones. gives them a good mix of random and controlled input.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by eiladayn:
They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills. They have no problem with the stats or even the progression, its the lack of control over WHICH skills their character receives. Does anyone else have this problem, have you solved this problem, do you even consider it a problem?

Well, I've been using a rule of thumb "character conception" based system for a while.

Essentially, you hand-design a character, with the requirement that it could be generated from the standard tables without being too wildly improbable.

This works better with the marginally better balanced MT system rather than the CT one, but both are OK.

Obviously this approach makes no sense if your players are munchkins.

In the case you suggested, perhaps they should just note down how many skills they become eligable for, and select an appropriate mix of skills at the end of chargen. This gives you a chance to exercise a veto as well.

Alan B

 

[mike wightman]

Borrow from the T5 playtest character generation files(or use them instead of the Book 1 tables). Quick character generation allows for the selection of one skill from any open to the profession per year. If you want to keep a more CT feel then only pick one per term(or 2 for MT) plus any automatics from rank etc.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Borrow from the T5 playtest character generation files(or use them instead of the Book 1 tables). Quick character generation allows for the selection of one skill from any open to the profession per year. If you want to keep a more CT feel then only pick one per term(or 2 for MT) plus any automatics from rank etc.

What he said. The T5 chargen work well, and feel like T4's system, but the T5 Quick Gen sections scream. All you do is pick the service, pick the terms served, and then pick the skills. Wham, bam, done. Dizzying.

 

[binky]

Originally posted by robject:
What he said. The T5 chargen work well, and feel like T4's system, but the T5 Quick Gen sections scream. All you do is pick the service, pick the terms served, and then pick the skills. Wham, bam, done. Dizzying.

The more I work with the T5 system, the more I like it. The quick gen does indeed remove the randomness which a lot of people don't like.

Now to persuade my players it's the way to go

- Neil.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by eiladayn:
I like CT, it's my favorite RPG, but the younger players I've tried to get interested have had one major complaint. I would very much like to overcome this one complaint and beg for suggestions. They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills. They have no problem with the stats or even the progression, its the lack of control over WHICH skills their character receives. Does anyone else have this problem, have you solved this problem, do you even consider it a problem?

Thanks,
Pappy

Andy Slack's House Rules have an Alternative Character Generation section:
Andy Slack House Rules

However, it does seem that T5's rules from what I am reading do more to preserve the initial flavor of the Traveller Character generation system. I might also pump up the points he gives if you usually do an MT (background skills, further eduction, and all that) style character generation.

Honestly I use the mtcg.exe program with some limits as to aliens and other options to help my PC's create a character. It is still probably too random for your guys.

MTCG for DOS link

What kind of RPG are they use to? What kind of char gen system are they use to?

 

[robject]

My group is used to technical chargen design: SpaceMaster, RuneQuest, and GURPS. Each of these has unique features, but in my mind they all sort of blend together. Of the three, RuneQuest delivers the most bang for my buck, but I prefer Traveller. And in particular, I prefer its random chargen, because I'm a poor planner and I'd rather let the dice do some of the thinking. Also, I like a little chaos. However, I admit that I wound rather than kill off characters.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by robject:
My group is used to technical chargen design: SpaceMaster, RuneQuest, and GURPS. Each of these has unique features, but in my mind they all sort of blend together. Of the three, RuneQuest delivers the most bang for my buck, but I prefer Traveller. And in particular, I prefer its random chargen, because I'm a poor planner and I'd rather let the dice do some of the thinking. Also, I like a little chaos. However, I admit that I wound rather than kill off characters.

I prefer my character have little or no idea about the hit damage their characters have taken. I describe the type of wound and whether or not they are stunned or unconcious from said wound.

I do a hit location system I found on traveller central.

They get hit in the head through the eye from a shot with no helmet then I do not care what the damage says they are going down.

They might no be dead but they are going down.

I prefer to not let charts and damage versus pen/atten matrixes dominate the game. This is a bold statement from me. The section for personal combat in my house rules is getting pretty large. But the play is still the thing.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by eiladayn:
I like CT, it's my favorite RPG, but the younger players I've tried to get interested have had one major complaint. I would very much like to overcome this one complaint and beg for suggestions. They say that the character generation is just too random, they want more control over their skills. They have no problem with the stats or even the progression, its the lack of control over WHICH skills their character receives. Does anyone else have this problem, have you solved this problem, do you even consider it a problem?

Well, assuming you are using straight Book 2 char gen, there are two solutions I have used:
- pick the table *after* you roll the die.
- roll the first skill in a term, pick the rest.

Also, if you want the increased level of skills, without using the Book 4,5,etc. generation, use Book 2 and double the number of skills received. Then, allow the player to pick all of the extra skills.