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What the deal with swords

I have not played Traveller for 15 years and started a t20 game. One of my players was a marine. He recived the weapon focus cutlass. Why would you train a hi tech marine with a useless skill? I can see hi tech warriors learing a bayonet skill in basic to instill discipline. A cutlass in a morden battle is worthless. In the civil war the were rarely used in combat it was a sign of rank. Gen Custer had his troopers pack their swords away before the battle of little big horn.I like to know why enlisted marines recive this skill.( i let the player chose a differt focus)
 
Originally posted by intheburgh:
I have not played Traveller for 15 years and started a t20 game. One of my players was a marine. He recived the weapon focus cutlass. Why would you train a hi tech marine with a useless skill? I can see hi tech warriors learing a bayonet skill in basic to instill discipline. A cutlass in a morden battle is worthless. In the civil war the were rarely used in combat it was a sign of rank. Gen Custer had his troopers pack their swords away before the battle of little big horn.I like to know why enlisted marines recive this skill.( i let the player chose a differt focus)
"The Marines train with the cutlass for many reasons: Tradition of course is a major reason, but is only part of the picture. Swordwork is an excellent workout and emphasizes body positioning, which is important to troops who have to operate battledress. In addition, fencing is a sport that easily adapts to cramped starship corridors...." Ground Forces-GURPS Traveller
 
How many bullets, laser beams, and grenade fragments would you like to be zinging around in your control room?
When fighting in vacuum, any breach in your vacc suit is lethal. An edged weapon is an effective way to make that breach.
Any combat in close quarters, such as shipboard, means you will have friendlies in your line of fire. With a blade, you will not have to worry about friendlies past your target.
Custer may have had his troops pack away their sabers before Little Big Horn, remember what happened to him?
The bayonet came back into use during WWI and WWII. Quite a few troops put a sharp edge on their entrenching tool (shovel) to use as an axe when things got close. Anytime someone has said a weapon was obsolete, they got a suprise in their next battle.
Never forget, the best way to know how to defend against something is to know how to use it.
Any marine that ignores the cutlass is throwing away a very useful discipline that may keep him alive in his next engagement.
 
I the present day remember that the British Army is still very fond of its bayonets.

To quote Cpl Jones of "Dads Army"

"They don't like it up'em Sir"
 
Originally posted by intheburgh:
I have not played Traveller for 15 years and started a t20 game. One of my players was a marine. He recived the weapon focus cutlass. Why would you train a hi tech marine with a useless skill? I can see hi tech warriors learing a bayonet skill in basic to instill discipline. A cutlass in a morden battle is worthless. In the civil war the were rarely used in combat it was a sign of rank. Gen Custer had his troopers pack their swords away before the battle of little big horn.I like to know why enlisted marines recive this skill.( i let the player chose a differt focus)
Even though bayonets caused very few casualties after the decline of cavalry (they replaced pikes which were needed to protect slow-firing gunmen) they were a key element in a charge. If you see a mass of men running at you full speed with a big knife in front of them at some point you're going to want to avoid getting stuck. Still applies today and I'd think even more so in the close quarters on a ship. (w/ high TL knives, axes, etc.)

And look what happened to Custer.
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FWIW, the last old-fashioned cavalry charge in the West was in 1870 during the Franco-Prussian War. Still useful though they suffered heavy casualties. There were still used in the eastern fronts in WWI, RCW*, and WWII.

'Sides characters look kewl swinging a sword and it's part of the science fiction Traveller was inspired by.

* my favorite is horse drawn machine gun carts supporting lancers and cossacks during a charge.

Casey
 
FWIW, the last old-fashioned cavalry charge in the West was in 1870 during the Franco-Prussian War.
Err - try in the 1920s in India/Afghanistan for plenty of WORKING cavalry charges, but the last that I can recall, magnificent yet hopeless, was the 1st Polish Lancers charging against the German (2nd?) panzer Division.

Now, how do I persuade my players to try that ... ?
 
There was also the charge of the Australian Light Horse at I think Bathsheba in WW1. The charge was apparently successful but I believe the casualty rate was very high.
 
Back to the original question of swords as opposed to cavalry... ;)

I have always liked the whole tradition and good form of excercise aspect of the Imperial Marines being trained in cutlass. I also think the idea of having a good bladed weapon available for combat in a vacuum makes sense (I had not thought of the bayonet...cool idea!).

The thing I have always found odd is that the Imperial Marines are trained in what is primarily a slashing weapon. Sure it might tear great big holes in a vac suit, but I would think the slashing movement would be much less controllable in a zero-G environment than a thrusting movement like you would get from a rapier or other thrusting blade (bayonet!). Plus, if the vac suit is at all armored, a thrusting blade might have a better chance of penetrating. The puncture would not be as large and might be easily sealable, but you would not be as likely to loose control and would be in a better position to hit your opponent again or defend against another opponent.

I suppose there is no reason that tradition can't still be an explanation:

Marine Private: "Sarge, why the *beep* are we learning to use a cutlass? Its gonna send me flying if I ever take a swing at someone and the grav field's been cut."

Marine Seargent: "We aren't here to argue with thousands of years of tradition! We are here to learn how to fight with a Marine cutlass! ... However, I can't recall ever finding a regulation denying a marine from carrying a thrusting weapon as well as their cutlass..."

I've always assumed that the tradition originated with old Terran military tradition carried into the stars by the Terran military and then the Rule of Man and eventually to Third Imperium. That makes it an impressive tradition...it also provides a long time for it to have shifted towards a more practical weapon, like a heavy rapier. As for MTU, I've considered varying it by region or sector depending on the level of Solomani influence and so on.
 
You can thrust with a cutlass. I fenced saber for about 5 years. I got about half my touches with the point. Just because their weapon has an edge, people tend to forget it has a point as well.
Here is a good picture of a cutlass.
http://www.stanleylondon.com/swordcutlass1860.htm

Cold Steel strikes fear in the hearts of those who face it. (unless you're manning a VRF Gun with a full ammo bin ;) ).

Besides, I like a bit Space Opera in my Traveller.
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Um yeah...

Well, to para-quote "Only a retard brings a sword to a gunfight"

I actually tried to GET my players to use swords waay back when by having a house rule that any round fired inside a ship that missed its target had a change of casuing a critical hit to the ship itself. So, my players switched to shotguns for internal ship defense and asked why the hell the inside of their ship had to be made out of rice-paper.

I put a stop to it when the group started trying to 'armor' the inside of their ship. Their thinking was "if the boarding party is using swords, we'll use LMG's....."

Personally, I feel that the sword is not a viable military weapon in a modern (or future) military. The bayonet has it's uses, and I've heard old soldiers say "you can stick 'em quicker'n shooting them" -- in fact my grandpa told of grabbing his rifle and impaling Japanese simply because he couldn't get his finger on the triger fast enough...said he'd then shoot to get the guy off his bayonet...
 
Swords are cool, but yeah, I see the point about future warfare.

Has anyone else noticed that most U.S. military planning seems to assume we'll be staying on Earth?
 
I am not sure how useful a bayonet is in zero-g. A sword leaves you one hand to hold on with or to control your jets. Groundside a sword gives you a less-lethal option for crowd control. A bayonet is better, but not on a bullpup carbine.

I personally suspect the cutlass tradition is a game artifact to give ex-Marine characters a useful skill on low-tech worlds.
 
Recruit: "Why do I need to know how to throw a knife in a nuke fight?"
Tac: (Throws knife, pinning recruits hand to wall)
Recruit: AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
TAC: (to other recruits) "Because he can't fire a nuke without his hand."

Paraphrased from "Starship Troopers" AKA "90210 in space"

Knives, blades in general are the last items to be outlawed on higher law level worlds.
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You don't have to kill a man to take him out of the fight. Cut the air hose, let HIM worry about the air. And as previously stated, blade don't tend to bound around and hurt that delecate starship machinery. (Unless you throw poorly)
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One counter point... Don't try to use a cutlass in the main corridor of any long ship, Unless you can run VERY fast...
 
I had always assumed that archaic tradition was the reason for the Marine cutlass (tho I like the reasons people have given for using them)I can't help but feel that a low recoil weapon (especialy loaded with shot or flechett rounds) will be rather better than the cutlass.

IMTU naval officers wear dress daggers and army officers carry sabres in dress uniform. No good reason just tradition
 
Two other reasons of the use of blades by military: 1) On worlds where firearms are prohibited, it still allows for an increase of personal protection and 2) it would be the primary weapon for duels, since the duels could be fought till "first blood", allowing the survival of trained Imperial assets.
 
How about a Greatsword or a waraxe? Since T20 debuted all the D&D weapons are now available for use in a Traveller setting. Not much mention of the flail, Mace or Warhammer, would these weapons have much place aboard a spaceship?
 
Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
How about a Greatsword or a waraxe? Since T20 debuted all the D&D weapons are now available for use in a Traveller setting. Not much mention of the flail, Mace or Warhammer, would these weapons have much place aboard a spaceship?
The trick is having the space to use a greatsword or flail in a starship corridor. A space ax at least has a nice spike for poking through armor.
The cutlass is compact and heavy, and even has a nice bellguard. A TL C cutlass is probably a good survival tool as well. You can cut the top of a can of rations or cut down a tree with it.
 
Knowing your opponents armor or defenses ahead of time is a great help in winning a battle, but how offen will htat happen?
The best you can hope for is to be able to pick the weapons for the conditions they will be used in.
If you are going to fight in a closet, bring a knife.
If the battle is on a flat paved landing field, then by all means, bring a high powered fully automatic crowd shredder, preverably mounted in a tank.
In vacuum with no gravity, a high powered crossbow with explosive tipped bolts might be just what you need.
In tight quarters or control areas shipboard, a medium length edged eapon may be just the proper tool for the job.
An axe in one hand and a SMG in the other may be the perfect answer to the occasional boarding party.
 
I seem to recall in "Hard Times"/MT, where ammo was scarce, certain corsairs' crews had the skill & weapons of halberd, and polearms, so depending on resupply issues, Vegascat is correct, a sword never (or axe/ spear/ boarding pike) never ran out of ammunition.
 
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