CT Only: What if the big Bk2 drives followed a formula?

[aramis]

CT has hiccups in the tables, making the effective value of certain drives higher than it should be if they were formulaic; namely, drives J, W, X, Y and Z.

the CT Bk2 table looks to be 200 Rating•Tons per letter. Divide the rating tons by the hull tonnage to get rating.

Drive J shows that it can drive a 2000Td ship rating 1, but formula fitting shows that it should be only 1800 Rating•Tons.

Drive W can push a 5000 Td hull at rating 1 and a 1000Td hull at Rating 5, both showing 5000 Rating•Tons but an 800Td hull only at rating 5. Formulaic would be 4200 Rating•Tons

Drive X is 6000 Rating•Tons. Formulaic would be 4400 Rating•Tons
Drive Y is 8000 Rating•Tons; for 800Td and 1000 Td hulls it gives 6 due to capping. Formulaic would be 4600 Rating•Tons
Drive Z is 12000 Rating Tons; for 800Td and 1000 Td hulls it gives 6 due to capping. Formulaic would be 4800 Rating•Tons.

Wouldn't be half so annoying if the sizes stepped up for the "missing letters" of capacity.
Here's what those last four would look like with the missing steps added for tonnage and price purposes.

Letter	Missing Steps	JD Td/MCr	MD Td/Cr	PP Td/Cr
W	4	130/250	49/100	76/200
X	8	155/300	59/120	91/240
Y	17	205/400	79/160	121/320
Z	36	305/600	119/240	181/480

Or, for adjusting cargo space and price on existing designs, the size adjustments from "Bk2 standard" W-Z drives.

Letter	Missing Steps	JD Td/MCr	MD Td/Cr	PP Td/Cr
W	4	+20/+40	+8/+	+12/+32
X	8	+40/+80	+16/+32	+24/+64
Y	17	+85/+170	+34/+68	+51/136
Z	36	+180/+360	+72/+144	+108/+288

(Discovered another error in my Spreadsheet for book 2, as well. Grr.)

 

[BillDowns]

Not sure what your point is, Aramis.

The breakdown you refer to is even worse in 1st edition.

I would have been as "happy as a bug in biscuit" if LBB5 had managed to produce drives that matched the majority of LBB2's tables.

 

[aramis]

Not sure what your point is, Aramis.

The breakdown you refer to is even worse in 1st edition.

I would have been as "happy as a bug in biscuit" if LBB5 had managed to produce drives that matched the majority of LBB2's tables.

Book 5 doesn't matter - I'm not discussing Bk 5 at all.

The W, X, Y and Z drives don't follow the progression established by the other drives.

If they did, then they'd be those sizes, instead of the sizes listed in Bk2.

Jump drives would be (2.5%*Jn*Hull)+5Td and MCr(2*(tonnage-5); they are up through drive V.

 

[robject]

Mike Wightman and others have also noted the "missing" drives, and tried to either work them in with some sort of lettering scheme (re-letter them, or squeeze in "intermediate" drives), or use a second (and third) formula after drives get to be a certain size, or some combination of both.

Any solution hangs on whether or not it's worth preserving the canon ship designs which use drives W-Z. Typically those designs are broken anyway, so...

 

[leo knight]

Many moons ago, I tinkered together for myself a hybrid of Book 2 and "Space:1889". That game uses a numerical "engine size", upon which everything else about the drive is based. This translates well to Book 2 drives. Since everything but the letter label becomes a number eventually becomes a number anyway, it seemed to make sense.

Also, I never let PCs get ahold of any big ships. For me, anything with the W-Z drives was a "referee special" anyway. I didn't mind if the ships I intimidated players with were "broken". :devil:

 

[BlackBat242]

I'd tend to just eliminate those 4 completely, and allow multiple drives synched together.

Thus you could fit a 5kt J1 ship with 5xJ drives instead of 1 W. While this is 150dt of Jdrives vs the book 110dt (or 125dt using aramis' formula), it allows a lot of flexibility to ship designs... you could fit 1xQ & 2xE for 140dt as well.

 

[Mithras]

I follow the Book 2 tables, and assume that they represent some factor or aspect of very large drives fitted into large ship hulls. Many things in life (and engineering) are just not linear.

 

[Dagrill]

I follow the Book 2 tables, and assume that they represent some factor or aspect of very large drives fitted into large ship hulls. Many things in life (and engineering) are just not linear.

ditto, I assumed there were economies of scale from larger drives,

Regards

David

 

[robject]

I'd tend to just eliminate those 4 completely, and allow multiple drives synched together.

That works. I tend to go the other route, and extract a formula for each drive size.

As Mithras noted, I also think there could be a second linear (or nonlinear) function that dominates once the drives reach a certain potential, but haven't found one I liked (so far).

 

[Vladika]

I...allow multiple drives synched together.

This is now cannon as of T5. Before it was forbidden. Doing this with multiple BK2 Power Plants allows for some powerful small warships in the 2Kton and up sizes.

 

[aramis]

That works. I tend to go the other route, and extract a formula for each drive size.

As Mithras noted, I also think there could be a second linear (or nonlinear) function that dominates once the drives reach a certain potential, but haven't found one I liked (so far).

Which is how I came up with the size they "should be".

Bk2 JDrives are (until you hit the above mentioned sizes) 5Td + (Jn*0.025*HullTd), with a cost of MCr(2*Jn*0.025*HullTd), or simplified, MCr2*(DriveTd - 5).

 

[robject]

Mike Wightman (again) made the observation that High Guard appears to have "switched around" the m-drive and j-drive percentages. Not literally of course, but in magnitude:

B2 M = 1%-1, 2%-1, 3%-1, 4%-1, 5%-1, 6%-1
HG J = 2%,   3%,   4%,   5%,   6%,   7%

B2 J = 2.5%+5, 5%+5, 7.5%+5, 10%+5, 12.5%+5, 15%+5
HG M = 2%,     5%,   8%,     11%,   14%,     17%

 

[Vladika]

Which is how I came up with the size they "should be".

Bk2 JDrives are (until you hit the above mentioned sizes) 5Td + (Jn*0.025*HullTd), with a cost of MCr(2*Jn*0.025*HullTd), or simplified, MCr2*(DriveTd - 5).

And what could/should we do with that? Make standard J drives from BK2 20% less expensive than custom formula built drives or increase the formula built custom drives by 20%? This assumes the traditional 20% reduction for mass production as BK2 drives are mass produced.

 

[aramis]

And what could/should we do with that? Make standard J drives from BK2 20% less expensive than custom formula built drives or increase the formula built custom drives by 20%? This assumes the traditional 20% reduction for mass production as BK2 drives are mass produced.

I figured for replicating the tables as a formula, as I don't always consider non-standard drives non-standard; IMATU, the "half-A", "A+", and "B+" are standard for jump drives and PP, but only the A+ and B+ for M-Drives. (I use a different drive formula for smaller than A drives in Maneuver). The C+ isn't "Standard" but is available as a non-custom. But, since I also use drive letter damage, the plus is lost on the first hit, along with the peak letter. (Yes, I round down.) The C+isn't different enough for the semistandard hulls (150, 250) to justify it, and 350 ton hulls are custom only.

Low end formula drives

Drive	Drive	Td	MCr	Td	MCr	Td	MCr	100	150	200	250	300
1/2 A	7.5	5	—	—	2.5	4	1	—	—	—	—
A	10	10	1	4	4	8	2	1	1	—	—
A+	12.5	15	2	6	5.5	12	3	2	1	1	1
B	15	20	3	8	7	16	4	2	2	1	1
B+	17.5	25	4	10	8.5	20	5	3	2	2	1
C	20	30	5	12	10	24	6	4	3	2	2
C+	22.5	35	6	14	11.5	28	6	4	3	2	2

[tc=2]Jump[/tc][tc=2]Maneuver[/tc][tc=2]PP[/tc][tr]

Likewise, power plants as described in Bk 2 are MCr4 per 1.5 Td, and 1Td+(1.5% hull).
MD's are Td=(0.015*Rating*HullTd)-1Td, and cost MCr=0.01333*hull*rating

Note that the standard drives are, until the 4 mentioned in my OP, 200 rating tons per letter... the + drives add 100 rating tons.

 

[Vladika]

I like it and find it quite logical. It should be universal in any CT universe.