What does a sandcaster look like?
- Thread starter ravells
- Start date
Since the sand caster in CT is interchangeable with a missile launcher in a turret (and IIRC holds the same number of shots) it must be similar in size to a turret missile.
I alwys imagined that it works by pushing a button and waving your arms (like most sci-fi technology).
I alwys imagined that it works by pushing a button and waving your arms (like most sci-fi technology).
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
We know for a fact (most Traveller rules anyway) that a single sand canister is only 50kg, total.
About the only way I think such a small amount of material can work is if it is "magic" sand and/or it gets "shotgunned" at the target.
So either it is fired in point defense against probable incoming laser fire (and possibly missiles) in the "shotgunned" case...
...or there is some cohesive element that shapes the "sand" into a shield like screen that follows the ship's vector in between you and the enemy in the "magic" sand case.
About the only way I think such a small amount of material can work is if it is "magic" sand and/or it gets "shotgunned" at the target.
So either it is fired in point defense against probable incoming laser fire (and possibly missiles) in the "shotgunned" case...
...or there is some cohesive element that shapes the "sand" into a shield like screen that follows the ship's vector in between you and the enemy in the "magic" sand case.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
And firing all this magic sand out there, is done as point defense against Lasers even though Lasers are a light speed weapon and sensors are, at best, also light speed. (In other words the first indication that someone is firing a Laser at you is that you get hit.)
So it is definitely magic, time traveling, sand.
So it is definitely magic, time traveling, sand.
Dirk Desiato
SOC-5
IMTU, sandcasters are S.A.N.D. casters (Standard All-purpose Noisemaking Decoy). The canister is a 50kg decoy that messes up enemy targeting and has limeted use as an anti-missile. They are fired in the direction of attacking ships (one turret per enemy, multiple turrets can engage) ant the attacker gets -3 to hit with an additionla -1 per extra caster fired in that direction. The decoys last for one turn. They may be used in the missile defense phase with a -2 modifier to hit a missile. Targeting programs are not needed to use a S.A.N.D. caster.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...or missed, or painted by active sensors to achieve a target lock. Lots of ways to know you're in trouble and where it's coming from, in general at least.
I figure that you pick your probable arcs of incoming fire and hope you guess right.
Otherwise, yes, magic time travelling sand it is, or precognitive gunners
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I like that decoy/noise option. I like it so much better than the OTU one or my TU one I may just snag it (with credit of course) Thanks Dirk Desiato!
I think I'll change the acronym to Standard Active Noise Decoy though
Now why didn't this occur to me ages ago? I don't recall seeing the idea floated before either. But then in both cases given my memory of late I may have just forgotten
I think I'll change the acronym to Standard Active Noise Decoy though
Now why didn't this occur to me ages ago? I don't recall seeing the idea floated before either. But then in both cases given my memory of late I may have just forgotten
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Sure, flood the EM bands with all kinds of signal, blind the enemy sensors (and of course your own) and it's harder for them to target you.
Not audio noise of course, but I suspect you knew that
We all remember that in space no one can hear you scream.Dirk Desiato
SOC-5
Snag it and run! I like your name for it better also, so I'll snag that back.
I got the idea while running one day. I have come up with many a cool idea as I try to distract myself from physical activity. I probably should start running again for that reason alone, now that I don't have to. (I just mustered out of the USAF, 3 terms, failed my survival roll and got a medical retirement. I'm not injured physically, just mentally.)
I got the idea while running one day. I have come up with many a cool idea as I try to distract myself from physical activity. I probably should start running again for that reason alone, now that I don't have to. (I just mustered out of the USAF, 3 terms, failed my survival roll and got a medical retirement. I'm not injured physically, just mentally.)
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I asked LKW this question a few years ago on the TML. He said Marc's idea was a type of "depth charge in space" kinda thing.
The sand being dispersed from cans like depth charges, flung out from the ship until the "pop".
I think the idea has morphed from Marc's original concept over the years.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Considering how big space is, how fast they would have to disperse, (and they will keep dispersing just as quickly) and how small they are (50kg) compared to the size of the ship they are protecting. The jammer in a can is a better choice.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
...or missed, or painted by active sensors to achieve a target lock. Lots of ways to know you're in trouble and where it's coming from, in general at least.
I figure that you pick your probable arcs of incoming fire and hope you guess right.
Otherwise, yes, magic time travelling sand it is, or precognitive gunners
I don't care how desnely you pack a 50kg can, it is no more than 50kg of sand.
And given the general arc for such a small can, or battery of small cans, that is still not going to give you very good coverage, even if you threw 30 canisters out there. (10 Triple turrets organized as 1 battery.) Trying to cover a ship that is in excess of 100 meters long. Also remember, in this case Newton had it right, objects in motion, tend to stay in motion. Your window for intercept is ridiculously small and you have to fire before they do, giving them a good pinpoint on your location. So I guess the sand is fired first and the laser is fired into the sand because it is there.
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Hi !
*bla bla start*
Regular sand consists in fact of specially produced nano layered ultra-planar metal surfaces (mostly Mo), which provide a high reflection rate for even high TL X-rays laser beams, but notably less tendency to get evaporated.
Typically a sandcaster load provides an effective surface of around 50000 m², which has some potential to disperse an incoming beam attack.
Anyway its not very efficient and its needs a bunch of turrets to provide a significant defense effect.
Historically in early space times really sand or other crytalline materials were in use, but this stuff was much more inefficient as the newer materials. Anyway the name "sand" was defined.
Well, the effect on missiles is a different one.
The metal filaments disturb sensoring itself and eventually render the sensor equipment useless, by accumulating of the surface of the missile.
Starships making it thru a battle sometimes have a pretty visibly pattern of tiny reflective spots on their front surface. Thats the reason for the synonymical phrase "having been on a party" for a former starship combat.
Starship engineers really hate this stuff, as cleaning away the "sand" from vital surface attachments is always a pain.
*bla bla stop*
As always, don't take it all to serious
regards,
TE
*bla bla start*
Regular sand consists in fact of specially produced nano layered ultra-planar metal surfaces (mostly Mo), which provide a high reflection rate for even high TL X-rays laser beams, but notably less tendency to get evaporated.
Typically a sandcaster load provides an effective surface of around 50000 m², which has some potential to disperse an incoming beam attack.
Anyway its not very efficient and its needs a bunch of turrets to provide a significant defense effect.
Historically in early space times really sand or other crytalline materials were in use, but this stuff was much more inefficient as the newer materials. Anyway the name "sand" was defined.
Well, the effect on missiles is a different one.
The metal filaments disturb sensoring itself and eventually render the sensor equipment useless, by accumulating of the surface of the missile.
Starships making it thru a battle sometimes have a pretty visibly pattern of tiny reflective spots on their front surface. Thats the reason for the synonymical phrase "having been on a party" for a former starship combat.
Starship engineers really hate this stuff, as cleaning away the "sand" from vital surface attachments is always a pain.
*bla bla stop*
As always, don't take it all to serious
regards,
TE
Considering how big space is, how fast they would have to disperse, (and they will keep dispersing just as quickly) and how small they are (50kg) compared to the size of the ship they are protecting. The jammer in a can is a better choice. </font>[/QUOTE]You'd have to fire them on the incoming trajectory of a missile, or the predicted trajectory of direct laser fire (i.e. between you and the attacking ship). I only allow the effect the last a single combat round (it's a -2 penalty to hit for T20 IIRC).
There's no real scientific basis for this, I just like the depth charge analogy. I'd also allow customised missiles to act as decoys / jammers.
These would be more expensive than standard missiles.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
I always imagined that it looks like a giant catapult, hurling magical sand into space, thereby adding to the pollution of Deep Space.
Mine are like really big-bore shotguns on full auto... 50kg. isn't the mass of a singel shell, but of enough 'sand' shells to fire in a single round.
And, of coursee, the sand isn't really sand, but a metallized ceramic designed to:
screw up sensors by acting as chaff
disperse beam weapons
impact and damage/destroy incoming missiles
do REALLY BAD THINGS to any boarders that decide to enter visual range of an active sandcaster!
And, of coursee, the sand isn't really sand, but a metallized ceramic designed to:
screw up sensors by acting as chaff
disperse beam weapons
impact and damage/destroy incoming missiles
do REALLY BAD THINGS to any boarders that decide to enter visual range of an active sandcaster!
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
You are firing these things out of a tube that is less than 1/3 of a DTon. In your scenario your sand is going to continue to disperse from the point of which it fires. You are covering the arc of a ship that is moving and maneuvering radically in 3 dimensions that is 100+ Dtons, from 1 or more ships that are also moving and maneuvering radically in 3 dimensions and from a weapon that, the only indication that it has fired is that you get hit (or in all fairness missed). Further the rules say you have to reload each rail every three shots.
You would shoot your magazine dry, even without the reloading rule, in less than a combat round to give you that kind of coverage and it would last a combat round, maybe.
This would fit more with the Sand as a shield concept than the Sand as point defense concept (as described in the rules).
Which is why most of us use Handwavium and Unobtainium methods of dealing with the concept.
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