What do you offer to an interdicted world?
- Thread starter rancke
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E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Rare expensive metals, gold, silver, platinum. Maybe cash in some form. Another might be a company off world willing to pay for workers they cannot otherwise get because the work is dangerous, deadly, causes severe illnesses, that sort of thing so, an expendable, unaccountable. unaware workforce is just the thing.
Indenturing might be another option here. You round up the illegals, ship them somewhere to do work nobody wants to do and you collect their pay from the company.
E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
The rare metals are out because they would notice their loss. As for slavery, not if you want to live. Bad enough smugerling to a interdicted world, but if you got cought as a slaver then it's the death sentence for sure.
Best regards,
Ewan
The world as Hand describes would be rated as Agricultural.
So, aside the possibility it has some rare product (special foods, drugs, spices or liquors), perhaps not even too apreciated by natives (as were potatos, tomatoes or tobacco for the native americans), I think any agricultural product (from timber to make furniture to real food) would be well sold in a world with no friendly biosphere, so it would not be so difficult to find something to barter the products you sell.
But don't forget anything you'd take as payment would have to be smuggled to Imerial markets too, or at least a cargo manifest would have to be forged, as you cannot justify where did you boy your cargo.
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Peter Newman
SOC-12
Canon does not fully define what the Imperium thinks of as 'slavery'. It is quite possible that debt peonage does not count. Thus
"I'll lend you the Cr 8,000 you need for Middle Passage off of your world. The Interest rate is 10% monthly, compounded daily."
"I can't come up with that much money."
"Sure you can, I know a guy who runs a brothel...."
May be fine with the Imperium and the only problem is the 'Interdicted planet' issue.
It might be an interesting twist if worlds are interdicted but the people of the world are not. If they leave the planet they have the same rights as anyone else.
From MT:RC, page 36:
I think this will forbid slavery in the Imperium, as no nation (AFAIK) has allowed its own citizens to be slaved. Even where slaves where accepted, the first prerequisite to be citizen has always been to be free.
About 'de facto' slavery, this has always been a problem, but I guess you'd slide into very dangerous terrain if you're catched in such a human (sentient?) trade (and more so if they come from an interdicted planet)...
Peter Newman
SOC-12
All that this says is that you can't do things to aliens that you can't do to humans. It doesn't say you can't be an SOB to everyone. 'Protected being' is meaningless until we know _what_ they are protected from.
When I wrote the Warrant of Restoration for T4 (and it was printed essentially verbatim therein), I specifically wrote in that chattel slavery was barred.
Anything else would - at least during Milieu Zero - have been a local-option decision. In discussions about it, I specifically pointed out that debt peonage, serfdom, and bondage to servitude as a penalty for a criminal act were among those forms of 'slavery' not barred, because they weren't chattel slavery.
A small fusion power plant, plus fuel scoop and refinement plant would be useful to a TL6 purchaser - though it would be expensive. A basic power plant costs 8MCr - adding the scoops and refinement, a control computer, etc will bring the price up even more. I haven't got High Guard or Striker to hand, but I guess the whole package would fit easily in a trader cargo bay.
Grav equipment would be my second choice, followed by computing hardware and library data.
As others have mentioned, the trouble is getting paid enough in local produce. Anagathics and psi drugs are perhaps the most valuable, followed by radioactives and gems. If the locals have a credible plan to one day end the interdiction, then land grants and monopoly trade rights would be very valuable.
Grav equipment would be my second choice, followed by computing hardware and library data.
As others have mentioned, the trouble is getting paid enough in local produce. Anagathics and psi drugs are perhaps the most valuable, followed by radioactives and gems. If the locals have a credible plan to one day end the interdiction, then land grants and monopoly trade rights would be very valuable.
I still say I don't remeber as now any nation that has allowed its own citizens to be slaved (at least formally so). Of course, more subtle forms of slavery exist...
Both of them are too likely to raise alarm when (not if, because it's too obvious) discovered by the IISS, IN or whoever enforces (as poorly as they do) the interdiction.
As soon as external nuclear tech is discovered on the planet, IN will take quite an interest in this interdiction, and I guess same will occur as soon as IISS discovers external grav tech (IN will not be so concerned by grav tech, but surely by nuclear tech)
There's a mercenary tiket in Amaranx, published on a Challenge IIRC (sorry, I cannot find its exact reference at this moment) where the introduction of a nuclear CV and a nuclear submarine by an external power is seen as an infraction that can lead to Imperial intervention. And that is just TL 7 fission tech on a TL 6 planet, so I guess introducing TL 8-9 fusion power (depending on the version you play fusion may be TL 8 or 9) will also make IN very interested (just what you try to avoid in this kind of comercial adventure)
This will sure be a very good option, if this is the case and they can be trusted (or blackmailed for having accepted external aid...)
Imperial Rome, Classical Greece, Pharonic Egypt, biblical Israel, 18th C US & UK... all of which allowed citizens to enter into indentured slavery. In Rome and Greece, it could be term or lifelong, depending upon the contract. In Israel, it was always term - never more than 7 years, either. 18th and early 19th C US allowed indenture both civil (contract) and criminal (court ordered); 18th C UK was the same. Further, all of these had nominal citizens who were chattels - women and/or children. (Modern US and UK, children are wards, not chattels - the state can sever your bond without payment, and you can't sell them off nor rent them out.)
Was this indentured servitude have the status of formal slaves? I'm not sure they could be sold or killed as a true slave could, or (in Rome) they were thought as unable to give testimony without torture, as slaves were, to put some examples of what being a true slave meant.
If not (I really don't know, so I trust your knowledge about it), this may well enter in the 'more subtle slavery ways' I cited
Instead of cargo, provide medical services? Fill the cargo bay with a clinic, have a few Medical-4 types on board and do laser eye surgery, fertility and anti-fertility treatments etc. People will pay a very high price for medical miracles.
Or some kind of advanced isotope separator (google AVLIS for a real-world example), take your cut in processed radioactives. If the world has a rudimentary nuclear industry (centrifuges etc) then it's hard for the interdictors to notice the increase in production, as long as you don't leave the equipment lying around.
And in general, any manufacturing or processing that can be done in the ship - land, do a batch run, get paid, get out. Your trade goods don't have to be higher tech than the locals, just as long as you can make it cheaper than them you'll turn a profit.
Or some kind of advanced isotope separator (google AVLIS for a real-world example), take your cut in processed radioactives. If the world has a rudimentary nuclear industry (centrifuges etc) then it's hard for the interdictors to notice the increase in production, as long as you don't leave the equipment lying around.
And in general, any manufacturing or processing that can be done in the ship - land, do a batch run, get paid, get out. Your trade goods don't have to be higher tech than the locals, just as long as you can make it cheaper than them you'll turn a profit.
Giving you a small, select group of rich people who know the secret and will do anything to keep it secret (~illuminati group). Yes, that will suit my purpose very well. Thanks for the idea.
Hans
A citizen could be killed by a patrician for a wide variety of reasons, with little risk to the patrician's life. Exactly what level of reason was punishable varied widely. So, a citizen in bondage to a patrician was always in danger of execution. And there are many documents of gladiators of citizen birth being sold. So, yes, Roman indentures (which included a surprising number of gladiators) could be sold.
What to take to an interdicted system would depend on why the system was interdicted.
Lewis/Aramis - Tukera owns most of the planet and are trying to force out the outside settlers (The Traveller Adventure):devil:
Inthra/Dethenes/Old Expanses - Self requested by the planetary government to control the technology also has a Scout and Navel Bases (Digest 12)
2 systems in Five Sisters are interdicted but have C starports - Droyne worlds:frankie:
Dijini/Lanth - E starport, TL9, pop 8 people
There are many reasons for interdiction develop the system and find out. Besides an X starport is just another way to try to keep you out but reality could be different because starting at TL5 an airport could be used as a E starport and at TL7 or 8 a D starport.
Who knows the interdiction might be for your safety not there development.:devil:
Lewis/Aramis - Tukera owns most of the planet and are trying to force out the outside settlers (The Traveller Adventure):devil:
Inthra/Dethenes/Old Expanses - Self requested by the planetary government to control the technology also has a Scout and Navel Bases (Digest 12)
2 systems in Five Sisters are interdicted but have C starports - Droyne worlds:frankie:
Dijini/Lanth - E starport, TL9, pop 8 people
There are many reasons for interdiction develop the system and find out. Besides an X starport is just another way to try to keep you out but reality could be different because starting at TL5 an airport could be used as a E starport and at TL7 or 8 a D starport.
Who knows the interdiction might be for your safety not there development.:devil:
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Exactly correct. There are lots of reasons for a system to be an amber zone.
Two that are included in a novel I have almost finished, based on Traveller, are Ginshar (0803) and Durne (1006) in the Hinterworlds.
Ginshar is interdicted (amber) because the locals produce a variety of bio-engineered and pharmaceutical products that are generally illegal in the extreme. To protect their system they have a very aggressive and violent system defense force that will attack unannounced arrivals without warning.
Durne, as part of the Ral Rantha is one of a number of worlds in that "empire" tha that engages in various criminal and 'extra curriculuar' activities like spying, political and corporate assassination, intrigue, etc. The Ral Rantha are made out to be, as a whole, a "business" / political association of systems that generally engages in these sort of activities to anyone who can afford their prices. They are left alone by the various powers like the Solomani and Imperium because of what they know and what they could potentially do in the way of disrupting their goverments.
Instead, these and other powers use the Ral Rantha as sort of a intelligence and black ops for hire orgainzation to do all sorts of dirty jobs they themselves don't want to do or possibly get connected to. This is why so many Ral Rantha worlds are amber and why the Ral Rantha have a couple of systems within Imperial space. The later makes it easy to make 'arrangements' to get "things" done by the Imperium so these worlds are tolerated and left alone.
I guess we all agree in this point. When Ranke2 began this tread, he also began another about the same planet that explains why it is interdicted:
