wanted: light sabre conversion

[plop101]

Oh yeah. Thats what I want. If we got the Star Trek phasers then we gotta have the Star Wars light sabres. Preferably in CT or MT, but I'll be happy to entertain other formats.

I assume that if such things exist in Traveller, that they have to be at least TL13, and probably more like TL15/16. Very expensive, and hard to produce too.

Any ideas out there? GIVE ME YOUR BRAIN.

 

[Flynn]

Here's an article I posted to Freelance Traveller back in 1998:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/chargen/zartismt.html

It gives light sabre stats in MT, as well as a prior career and rules for using them within the OTU.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Granpafishy]

So what exactly is penetration anyway? I've seen it listed in the books of T4 (the version I have), but dosn't go into detail about what it's used for. As the aformetioned site says, "Penetration 15, Damage 4, Block 2".
What is "Block" as well.

 

[marginaleye]

Um...
Light-sabers, as depicted in the Star Wars series, are only really effective in the hands of Force-sensitive adepts. A light-saber isn't much good unless you can get very close to your target. You can't get very close to a target armed with a conventional ranged weapon unless you use your light-saber to block fire from ranged weapons, and you can't do that unless you've got some sort of precognition.

In the Star Wars series, precognition is supplied by Force-sensitivity, but I'd say that in the canonical Traveller universe, a psionicist ought to be able to do the same thing, via a sort of highly-specialized "combat clairvoyance." Needless to say, ordinary Psionics Institutes probably wouldn't teach this sort of clairvoyance.

A really scary (but probably silly) thought:
Lightsaber-wielding Zhodani commandos. Probably no more effective than the "ordinary" PGMP-toting kind, but aesthetically much scarier (since lightsabers would cut those ever-sharp bonded superdense cutlasses the Imperial marines are so fond of like so much soft cheese).

 

[plop101]

Thanks Flynn. Interesting take on the subject.

Marginaleye writes:

You can't get very close to a target armed with a conventional ranged weapon unless you use your light-saber to block fire from ranged weapons, and you can't do that unless you've got some sort of precognition.

Or really, really, great hand eye coordination

But honestly, your right, they would need precognition in the Traveller universe. Unless they were using combat drug. But I don't think that works real well.

Needless to say, ordinary Psionics Institutes probably wouldn't teach this sort of clairvoyance.

My assumption was that a light sabre wielding individual would be very rare in the 3I. The technology, and the cost[my own notion is that light sabres are very expensive]would make them available only to the nobility. Most of them would find other weapons much more effective. Thus, you would have two very small groups using light sabres:

group a: Nobles using light sabres because they like them, even though they don't have the skills to use them properly. Perhaps they use them as ceremonial weapons, or because they look cool.

group b: Nobles using light sabres that have the skills(eg psionics)to use them properly. This group would be very, very, very small in the 3I.

So, why am I thinking about this...

the compressed nutshell version:
what if Lucan had a Vader or a Maul type on the payroll...

They might make for a intrigueing NPC protagonist.

Interesting.

 

[Flynn]

Granpafishy,

I'm a little rusty on my MT, as it's been some years since I've played, but here's the basics:

Penetration 15, Damage 4, Block 2

Means that the attack has a penetration value of 15, so armor halves the damage for every 15 points of its value. (Help me, guys, is that right?)

Damage, of course, is the amount of Lifeblood damage that the weapon deals.

Block is part of your defensive roll in the contest to determine if the enemy's attack on you was successful.

Marginaleye,

My goal with that article, and the background article that supports the MT rules, was to provide a pseudo-Jedi knighthood that works within the OTU setting, and uses the best technological descriptions (i.e. Darrian plasma art) that comes closest to matching the description of light sabres.

I make no special requirements that the bearer be psionic, but I also put the knowledge of their construction only in the hands of two psionic organizations who are diametrically opposed to one another.

From the background piece, you should be able to see shades of the Jedi/Sith divergences, and be able to integrate that feel into your games, if you so desire.

I also made these organizations secretive, to explain why the sabre isn't seen in widespread public use. The fact that they are TL 16 also adds to that. (TL and Prices are found at the end of the background piece.)

Plop101,

Thanks. I hope this helps you with some thoughts on the use of light sabres in the OTU.

Enjoy,
Flynn

 

[TKalbfus]

You want a light sabre? Why?

Experiment 1: A Traveller character watching an old Star Wars movie gets an idea, so he takes his laser rifle, attaches a rod to the end of the barrel and places a mirror at the end of the rod to reflect the laser beam back into the barrel. Is this a light sabre?

 

[marginaleye]

I would suggest that light-saber "blades" ought to be able to pass through one another freely, which would make "fencing" with light-sabers radically different than with ordinary blade weapons. In Classic Traveller terms, I'd subtract 2 from the the equivalent ordinary blade combat skill (foil, perhaps) to determine how well a "conventional" swordsman does with a light-saber.

A nastier possibility is that instead of passing through one another, light-saber blades disrupt one another. When the blades touch, the "gravito-magnetic containment fields" flicker, releasing their contents rather like small plasma-gun bolts. The effect should be unpredictable -- the plasma might just jet off harmlessly, or it might end up wounding one, or both, of the fencers. At best, the fencers have to pause to re-ignite their light-sabers, at worst, they both end up dead.

Can a light-saber be "set to overload?" Star Trek's hand phasers come to mind, and (more poetically) so do a few particularly powerful magical items (wizardly staves, I believe) from Dungeons and Dragons. Using one's light-saber as a "plasma grenade" could be a spectacular sort of "honorable suicide attack."

 

[MrMorden]

I don't use this kind of thing IMTU, but here would be my take on it if I did:

The main problem with a "light saber" is what the blade is made of. If you want it to behave as in the SW movies, your options are limited. Light doesn't work, it genberates insufficient physical force to 'push against' anything else, especially another light beam. Plus, how could you terminate such a thing?

Plasma's not bad for termination (assuming somthing that ionizes the air and sets up magnetic containment), but you still have a problem if you want to have a 'saber duel'...two such blades cannot effectively interact.

There is the idea of a shaped 'force field', but this is just a little beyond the scope of most Traveller games, and gets up pretty far beyond TL15.

Last is the way I would do it: with gravitics. A high energy shaped grav field could slice, by forcing molecules apart on contact. It could interact with other sabers in the way you'd expect, as the two repulsor fields would force each other apart.

Best of all, if you use a grav field you don't have to get outside of Traveller's assumed technologies. The grav field could even generate the neato hum and light show. I'd say the first one would be available at mid-TL14, with a flexible power cord going to a small power cell worn on the belt or around the arm. Self-contained versions might appear mid-TL15.

 

[robject]

I like the idea of light sabers being useful generally, but laser-deflecting to precognitives only (Knights of the Imperium?). I haven't looked at specific equipment design sheets for them, but what kind of power source would a light saber need? Wouldn't it have to be anitmatter (given that laser rifles require a heavy backpack)?

AM lightsabers might move them to the realm of nobility for sure, since there are few worlds with the infrastructure needed for AM experimentation.

I suppose Knights of Darrian would have them.

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by plop101:
Oh yeah. Thats what I want. If we got the Star Trek phasers then we gotta have the Star Wars light sabres.

The horror... the horror...

Sorry, but I think the Jedis are a bunch of pussies. Yeah, you can deflect a laser pulse with your lightsaber. Cool. Try that against a VRF Gauss gun. Actually, I'll just take a page from Attack of the Clones, herd them all into a confined space and introduce them to concepts such as variable-timed artillery, or the orbital meson strike. "Hey Yoda: dodge this!"

IMTU, guys who get to wear combat armor, usually manage to hit what they aim at.

 

[Flynn]

MrModren,

I went with plasma held within grav fields for my concept.

The Order of Zar-Tis: A Daryen Society of Psionic Knights

The full description is included toward the bottom of this page, actually.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[far-trader]

Just to dampen the enthusiasm a little (not to give the wrong impression, I think it's kinda cool but not likely a MTU thing) make sure you think ahead a little of what that tech could bring with it...

I for one now want a LightSuit in any LightSabre universe. Something that uses the same tech but as part of an armored suit. Put the power in a belt or backpack and when things get too hot for your basic hardshell turn on the juice and voila sparkly light show and hum surrounds you and all that laser etc. danger (even LightSabres) just bounces off you and your arms are lethal weapons that can chop through anything. Just remember to not apply it the soles of your boots or fall down

Should be as doable as the fancy sword old man

 

[plop101]

Salamander writes;

The horror... the horror...

Sorry, but I think the Jedis are a bunch of pussies.

I concur. Your fanciful but relevant point deals in part with the context that the weapon would be used. Light Sabres (or for that matter any blade or melee weapon) do not really belong on the battle field of the Far Future.

However, your point cuts both ways.

How many museum or bank security guards run around with VRF Gauss guns. How many police patrols can call in ortillery? The light sabre, or for that matter any blade or melee weapon, fancy or not, is going to be used in those particular close combat situations where things like rapid pulse fusion guns are not immediatly available. Something handy to sneak up on the guard and dispatch him, quickly. The light sabre has its disadvantages [bright, makes some noise, probably expensive] but the ability to slice through things (especially bulkheads) would be very nice.

Actually, I'll just take a page from Attack of the Clones, herd them all into a confined space and introduce them to concepts such as variable-timed artillery, or the orbital meson strike. "Hey Yoda: dodge this!"

Your standard martial arts type person with a katana probably wouldn't survive an ortillery strike either. But would you really want to fight him in a back alley way? Especially without your combat armor and your FGMP-15 because your on a law level 7 world. Something to contemplate...

 

[MrMorden]

Originally posted by Flynn:
MrModren,

I went with plasma held within grav fields for my concept.

The Order of Zar-Tis: A Daryen Society of Psionic Knights

The full description is included toward the bottom of this page, actually.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

I read it...looks cool! Good job.

Though I don't want light sabers in my game, there's no reason they can't peacefully coexist with the rest of the OTU. I'd think the trick would be (as you've done) to make them very rare near-artifacts.

It certainly seems like the kind of thing a noble would want. IMTU nobility traditionally solve their differences with blades (guns are considered cowardly and disgraceful). I think the use of "retro" weapons, instead of "just another BFG" can add a whole lot to a campaign.

 

[TKalbfus]

If you can make a shaped force field into a light sabre, why not make a light shield instead? You just wear the light shield and it deflects lasers. Anyway with precognition you could just shoot the guy whose going to shoot you tomorrow.

 

[stofsk]

Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
If you can make a shaped force field into a light sabre, why not make a light shield instead? You just wear the light shield and it deflects lasers. Anyway with precognition you could just shoot the guy whose going to shoot you tomorrow.

Because a shield is not a weapon, and a sword can be used for defence as well as attack. Furthermore, blasters are unwieldly. You're more likely to miss a target using a ranged weapon than you are with a sword.

And I personnaly don't buy the whole Jedi precog thing being used on a CONSCIOUS level, which you seem to be implying. The application of the Force is based on intuitive responses, not cognitive functions (short version: they feel, don't think).

It's also a cultural thing too. A sword, because it can be used as a defensive weapon, lends itself well to symbolism. It is harder to find any 'noble' qualities in something which just destroys (like a gun). Remember the words: "A more civilised weapon, for a more civilised time."

*Star Wars Rant mode off*

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by plop101:

How many museum or bank security guards run around with VRF Gauss guns.

I saw a Wackenhut security guard unloading an ATM the other day. He was wearing a revolver and there was a 12-gauge in the cab of his armored car. Canada is TL 6/7 and LL 8/9 so this might represent a typical opponent for your psionic swashbuckler. His lightsabre would not defend very well against 00 buckshot from a 12-guage shotgun especially at anything longer than lightsabre range. If I empty a 15 round clip "SAS-style", from a 9mm pistol, or even all 6 rounds from a revolver, are you telling me that Luke Skywalker is going to parry and dodge all of those bullets, a la The Matrix? What if both guards open up simultaneously? I've never seen that in any of the Star Wars movies.

Star Wars energy weapons have ridiculously low rates of fire and, if the movies are any indication, must be abysmally inaccurate. I mean, have you ever seen a StormTrooper actually hit what he aims at?

In Traveller, slug throwers rule, and a lightsabre would be next to usless against them.

How many police patrols can call in ortillery? The light sabre, or for that matter any blade or melee weapon, fancy or not, is going to be used in those particular close combat situations where things like rapid pulse fusion guns are not immediatly available.

Toronto cops carry Glock semi-autos. My understanding is these pistols have 15 round clips. Most patrol cars also have a 12-guage shotgun. We haven't even called in the Tactical Squad and the cops already have plenty of firepower to deal with any lightsabre wielder.

Besides, any world which would restrict concealed handguns will definitely restrict a frickin laser/plasma/force sword capable of cutting through superdense (see Phantom Menace), unless that society endorses some bizarre "code duello", in which case all bets are off. Any world which would allow a lightsabre would presumably at least allow concealed handguns. Barring total surprise, I'll put my money on the handgun.

Something handy to sneak up on the guard and dispatch him, quickly. The light sabre has its disadvantages [bright, makes some noise, probably expensive] but the ability to slice through things (especially bulkheads) would be very nice.

See above.

Your standard martial arts type person with a katana probably wouldn't survive an ortillery strike either. But would you really want to fight him in a back alley way?

Well, Joe Katana better run faster than me. And he'd better avoid slipping on the trail of excrement that I leave as I run away screaming. But if you're talking about my character: why is he going into an alley alone and unarmed, anyway?

Again, unless we're talking about a world whose law level is interpreted as expressly forbidding slug throwers but expressly permitting--nay encouraging--carrying blade weapons, this is a straw man argument. If I know that guys are lurking in alleys with swords, I'm not going into an alley alone or unarmed. Joe Katana will have to be very stealthy or very clever to get more than one swipe at me before my buddies gun him down.

Especially without your combat armor and your FGMP-15 because your on a law level 7 world. Something to contemplate...

I'll repeat myself: no LL 7+ world is going to allow private citizens to walk around with a weapon that could cut a G-Carrier in half. I don't get my gauss SMG, you don't get your lightsabre. If you're concealing your weapon and carrying it illegally, how do you know that I don't have something in my coat as well?

And if I'm knocking out a museum guard, why not use a subsonic tranq round from a body pistol?

I don't think that Star Wars and Traveller dovetail very well, probably because George Lucas never played Striker. The lightsabre is a cinematic weapon which would be completely useless against TL 6/7 auto or semi-auto firearms. Besides, once people know you have one, they're going to do their best to drop you before you get close enough to use it.

The usual caveats apply, however: it's YTU, so "do what thou wilt" shall be the whole of the law.

 

[stofsk]

Stormtroopers are actually very good with ranged weaponry. A stormtrooper took a quick shot from a VERY awkward position and it managed to hit Leia in the shoulder. There's also the line from ANH where the Stormies attacked the Jawa sandcrawler in straetgic spots. Chewie is also a crackshot, as is Han Solo.

The problem is with RANGED weapons in GENERAL. It is easier to stick a knife into someones gut if you are in engaged in melee. It is a lot harder to fire a ranged weapon at a moving target, especially if you're moving as well.

However, your point about 'do what you want in your game' is taken to heart. Personally I'd take a lightsabre anyway, mainly because they are so cool.

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by stofsk:
The problem is with RANGED weapons in GENERAL. It is easier to stick a knife into someones gut if you are in engaged in melee. It is a lot harder to fire a ranged weapon at a moving target, especially if you're moving as well.

Which is why automatic weapons were developed to begin with and the Star Wars universe doesn't seem to account for this. And if you start positing the kind of precognitive and telekinetic abilities which go along with slinging a lightsabre, then I think you've introduced a heavy unbalancing force [pun intentional] into the game.

"This isn't the Traveller you're looking for. Move along."

However, your point about 'do what you want in your game' is taken to heart. Personally I'd take a lightsabre anyway, mainly because they are so cool.

Here are my CT stats:

Plasma Sword:

TL 16, Cr 150,000, weight: hand modulus 1.5kg, belt pack, 2.5kg, duration: 5 minutes, recharge from ship PP or any high-energy source, "blade" deployed length: 1m, 1 turn to charge and deploy, 1 turn to discharge (emergency discharge as PGMP-13)

The Plasma Sword uses the most current advances in laser and magnetic containment technology to create a "blade" of laser-excited hydrogen plasma which appears as a white-hot glowing "rod". The sword does 6D damage and the opponent must roll vs. DX to avoid having a limb amputated.

Because the magnetic "bottle" is formed by harnessing high-potential E-M fields, two plasma swords coming into contact will resist each other, allowing one PS to parry another. Any other weapon or material will sustain the full 6D damage. The PS is also source of high amounts of RF and will tend to interfere with unshielded electronics within 2 range bands (most milspec electronics will not be affected). Any equipment which can monitor E-M disturbances will detect an active Plasma Sword at up to 2km distance. A PS also produces a significant IR signature which is impossible to mask, allowing IR detection from significant ranges (30+ km if LOS). Finally, a PS requires 1 turn to discharge with the collapse of its EM field modulus bleeding away most of the plasma thermal energy. This is still enough to raise the ambient temperature of the immediate surroundings by 15-20 degrees C. Most PS users wear a special thermal suit (treat as mesh armor) to protect them from this heat. In an emergency, the modulus can be collapsed suddenly with the plasma discharging as if fired from a PGMP with 1/3 the range and at -2 to hit. All splash/area effects apply.

I will leave the whole "parry laser bolt" mechanics up to someone who actually allows psionics IHTU.

Hope that helps [shudder, shudder].