Virus

[MJD]

My great concern when embarking upon this project was that it would drown in a debate on why Virus works, how it works, what its effects were etc.

The purpose of the 1248 book is to re-unify the TRaveller timeline, to move on from the cliffhanger and into the future. Along the way some things have to be explained or amplified. The main reason for this is obvious if you write down a list of what-ifs from the descriptions of events 1130-1200.

It's a big job and some of the decisions won't please everyone. I can only hope that the end result is good enough that it's acceptable.

But: 1248 is not about Virus. It's about the reconstruction of interstellar civilization. The rise of the 4th Imperium, the interactions abetween the various successor states (Terran Commonwealth, Ziru Sirka and Imperial Regency, to name 3).

Virus is one small facet of this environment. One that I would prefer not to have been saddled with, to tell the truth. But it's in there and we have to do something about it.

The bottom line here is, 1248 is not a volume about Virus. There is a treatment of Virus in there that you can take or leave at your pleasure. But understand that 1248 is more than that.

 

[Flynn]

Although I am a collector of Traveller materials, I stopped when TNE came out, and only recently have gone back. The reason, of course, is the sense of hopelessness I got from the introduction of Virus. My opinions on the matter are very similar to a lot of others, both on and off the boards and lists, so I won't go into what would sound like a familiar diatribe.

But I can say that my faith in the New Era has been revitalized by the approach you're taking with TNE 1248, Martin. Virus is still present, but it's not overwhelming. People have a chance in this setting, and there's growth and advancement. The polities are small enough to be enjoyable, and there's plenty of room for frontier exploration, mercenary and mercantile activities, and the whole gambit of gaming experiences I enjoy in other versions of Traveller, but felt were missing in TNE. (This is, of course, only my opinion. Others will vary, and that's cool by me.)

Personally, I like the focus you've maintained with 1248, and support the continuation of only a moderate emphasis on Virus, along with an increased focus on the possibilities that open up for us organic lifeforms.

Thanks, And Keep Up The Hard Work,
Flynn

 

[Elliot]

While I hate to praise anyone...

I agree with Flynn - from what I have seen of 1248 it brings the Traveller feel back to the shattered universe. By making the Vikings only a small part of the big picture, we have our game back. I like the shattered regency, too.

By the way, I am really eager to see how the Terran Commonwealth pans out - its something I always wanted to see in Traveller and its arrived (nothign to do with the fact that I anticipated it in my TNE campaign in the early 1990s, of course).

The Virus - I can take it as a fictional given in the setting, so I don't really care.

Keep up the work .

As to death threats - are you serious? - there are some real inadequate saddos out there. Maybe they should get a little perspective in their lives!

(Threat to kill by way is an imprisonable offence and carries a 2 year term in the clink!)

 

[mike wightman]

Virus was always going to be the hottest topic to be dealt with from TNE, IMHO. While it may be better to get it out of the way by having these discussions and reaching a workable compromise, do you really think everyone with an opinion on this matter will ever agree?
And that's just the people who contribute to these boards .

At the end of the day it is Martin's decision, he's the one putting in all of the hours writing this thing, for which he deserves the praise above and let me add mine to it

.

My reading of the playtest material to date fills me with the hope that the Official Traveller Universe will allow for a wider range of adventure possibilities than have existed in any of the canon Traveller eras thus far.
But don't forget you can always take the bits you like and tinker around to include what you want to IYTU and if you don't like something, change it, it's your game from the moment you read it. There are plenty of people on these boards who quite happily share house rules and discuss new ideas

.
And now, on to the Empress Wave

 

[ACK!!]

Ok I got TNE back in the day and thought it was very interesting.

Until, I actually played it.

The rules were a bear.

Megatraveller had good rules but the Rebellion was not handled well and its open-ended direction was a bear to deal with. How can your players impact the rebellion too much when the idea of hanging canon out to dry hanging over your head.

TNE was a beast from my perspective on both sides. The Duex Ex Machina of the Virus brought old-timers on the hate parade early and then the new rules were house and not the treasured Traveller rules we were use to.

Most of the times I found no solace in the rulebooks. I went out and winged it a lot.

That is all IMHO and such.

A list of questions to be answered:

1. Hint at the answer to what the Hivers big psychohistory style goal was in helping humanity back to its feet. In the "Real World" countries help others country's out sometimes out of simple straightforward self-interest. Come on, this is fiction it has to be deeper than that.

2. What about the Solomani? Have they expanded? What are they doing?

3. Can the Reformation Coalition continue its more democratic form or will it have to resort to an Imperium style noble system to work?

4. What the hell happened to Margaret? She was too cool a player to die like a cheap punk.

5. What happened to the other big Rebellion ruler players?
(This is an adventure campaign in and of itself.)

6. Will there be a Fourth Imperium? What will it look it?

7. How have the other less-impacted society's on the Imperium's fringe moved along in terms of society and tech. (The virus impacted everyone but someone has to be doing some damn research.)

My advice for sh*t-list of topics to cover is to troll through the topics here. A lot of people have been asking a lot of questions they all want answered in a definitive canon like fashion.

I can think of two decent campaign ideas immediately.

1. A deep core mission to find out the fate of the major Rebellion players. Tying canon down.

2. Against the borg style campaign, where the Virus is changing itself to evolve against the growing and more effective human threat into a central conciousness concept where its commands are being transfered via an x-boat style exchange.

Will Marc Miller be involved from a consulting point of view?

 

[Erik Boielle]

00000Although I am a collector of Traveller materials, I stopped when TNE came out, and only recently have gone back. The reason, of course, is the sense of hopelessness I got from the introduction of Virus.00000

But see, in TNE space has hit rock bottom. The only place to go is up. Almost no matter where your PC's go and no matter what they do they can hardly help but leave things in a better state than when they arrived.

I thought that was mildly uplifting.

00000One that I would prefer not to have been saddled with, to tell the truth.00000

Be that as it may, it doesn't cost you anything to be nice to TNE and it might mean a reduction in crowing from vindicated TNE haters for me.

Vaguely consider how a 4I fan would feel if a future generation of traveller retconned Mr. Avery in to a hunchback drooling feebleminded fool who all the cool people laugh at parties and take care not to unnecessarily do the same to anything from TNE.

Please.

Not that its actually especially mean to TNE, but er on the side of caution. Makes one look the big man eh?

In short

SANDEMUSSTARVIKINGSRULEOK

http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/viking.htm

 

[DED]

Originally posted by MJD:
My great concern when embarking upon this project was that it would drown in a debate on why Virus works, how it works, what its effects were etc.

Unless I missed it, I don't think it has.

The purpose of the 1248 book is to re-unify the TRaveller timeline, to move on from the cliffhanger and into the future. Along the way some things have to be explained or amplified. The main reason for this is obvious if you write down a list of what-ifs from the descriptions of events 1130-1200.

It's a big job and some of the decisions won't please everyone. I can only hope that the end result is good enough that it's acceptable.

Except for a couple of points that I feel need further clarification, I've been quite happy with what you've written.

I certainly hope that my couple of negative comments haven't outweighed the vast majority of my positive comments.

But: 1248 is not about Virus. It's about the reconstruction of interstellar civilization. The rise of the 4th Imperium, the interactions abetween the various successor states (Terran Commonwealth, Ziru Sirka and Imperial Regency, to name 3).

And that's a good thing.

Virus is one small facet of this environment. One that I would prefer not to have been saddled with, to tell the truth. But it's in there and we have to do something about it.

Yeah, I think Virus has been the most controversial thing to ever be put into Traveller. Tackling that ogre was certainly not an enviable task.

The bottom line here is, 1248 is not a volume about Virus. There is a treatment of Virus in there that you can take or leave at your pleasure. But understand that 1248 is more than that.

I hope that all of the anti-Virus crowd of old will see that and come to accept the new setting.

 

[DED]

Originally posted by DED:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MJD:
My great concern when embarking upon this project was that it would drown in a debate on why Virus works, how it works, what its effects were etc.

Unless I missed it, I don't think it has. </font>[/QUOTE]Oops! I did indeed miss it. I had no idea that the "Terran Confederation" thread had switched over to a Virus debate. My apologies.

 

[Malenfant]

I like Virus.

I'm just having problems with what this Signal GK adventure said about the chips on Cymbeline. As far as I'm concerned, it's yet another example of stupid old CT baggage hobbling everything that comes after, that should be summarily ignored and tossed onto the bonfire.

I'd much rather than TNE:1248 ignored Signal GK, and just used what TNE said about the chips as the sole canon source.

 

[Elliot]

Posted by DED

_____

Oops! I did indeed miss it. I had no idea that the "Terran Confederation" thread had switched over to a Virus debate. My apologies
_____

Yeah! - Dear all get back to what that thread is supposed to be about!

 

[savage]

Didn't see this thread when I just posted on Imperium...etc.

I'm pro-Virus (sounds weird) but I have no problem with the Signal GK description as long as it taken with restraint. Virus needs flaws and cannot be all powerful. Further, its about as realistic than Vargr and Aslan.

Savage

 

[MJD]

Ack, I'm pleased you asked those questions... 1248 pretty much covers them all. Nivce to know I'm on the right track.

 

[kafka47]

I will be very happy if the Virus is relegated to the sidelines and we can get on with a epic struggle facing sophants in the distant future.

Having the virus in TNE should be the sandbars, rocks or the reefs in a 18th naval game. Everyone knows of their existance but insufficient charts or inaccurate, they present an ever present looming danger for the unwary.

Having the virus evolve into some sort of super lifeform was definately anti-Traveller and one of the bones that I would pick with Dave Nilsen. But, he did bequeath many useful and interesting concepts of an interstellar timeline shattered by war, poverty and want.

Combined with killer illustrations TNE was a continuation of the great things that had become Traveller (sure, I would have liked Hard Times to last longer) but if there had to be total weapon to wipe the slate clear better the virus than some phony balony cheap trick, like the rupture of the space-time continumn or something like that.

I can only hope that MJD will find the artist that will complement the fine words/ideas that he has shared thus far with us.

 

[DED]

Originally posted by Kafka47:
I will be very happy if the Virus is relegated to the sidelines and we can get on with a epic struggle facing sophants in the distant future.

Having the virus in TNE should be the sandbars, rocks or the reefs in a 18th naval game. Everyone knows of their existance but insufficient charts or inaccurate, they present an ever present looming danger for the unwary.

From what I've read so far in the playtest, that is quite a good description of it's role. However, it's also possible that someone can make it something more, if they want to.

 

[kafka47]

I heard it said many times on the list...that many people wish that Traveller had a 17th/18th century feel to it.

Whereas, I have always tried to play it as the classic space opera or, at least, a Doctor Who episode.

What is the feeling like for TNE Mk II? And, more importantly what would we like to mood to be like? I have always envisioned a combination of Judge Dread/Mad Max combined with a sophiscated Asimov plot (any of the recent reworkings of the Foundation novels by Brinn, Bear & company) for the TNE milieu.

What are others thinking?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Kafka47:
I heard it said many times on the list...that many people wish that Traveller had a 17th/18th century feel to it.

Whereas, I have always tried to play it as the classic space opera or, at least, a Doctor Who episode.

What is the feeling like for TNE Mk II? And, more importantly what would we like to mood to be like? I have always envisioned a combination of Judge Dread/Mad Max combined with a sophiscated Asimov plot (any of the recent reworkings of the Foundation novels by Brinn, Bear & company) for the TNE milieu.

What are others thinking?

WEll, I'd like to play it like a hard scifi post-apocalypse recovery setting, not a 17th/18th century historical rework

 

[Erik Boielle]

0000What is the feeling like for TNE Mk II? And, more importantly what would we like to mood to be like?0000

I have likened it to the world post WWII.

Squashed up a bit, with the universe coming out of a war and all the optimism and whatnot, the civil rights movement (vis Virus), Vietnam and cold wars against former allies of convenience.

Course, I was slagging off the 4I at the time, but I think the metaphor holds, and doesn't have to be negative.

Or possibly some kinda great age of exploration where people set out in ships from Europe to nick stuff from natives. More New World than Viking Raiders.

0000I have always envisioned a combination of Judge Dread/Mad Max combined with a sophiscated Asimov plot (any of the recent reworkings of the Foundation novels by Brinn, Bear & company) for the TNE milieu.0000

Dude, there’s totally a book called Space Viking by H. Beam Piper. Sgood.

Fun adventuring in an Imperium Collapsed with added viking activity. Published 1963.

http://www.nesfa.org/piper/html/Space-Viking.html

The seminal work for TNE. Only with the attitudes wrt democracy and autocracy reversed.

And no Virus.

0000Combined with killer illustrations TNE0000

Hmmm. I’ve always thought that using this guy

Here

for a lot of the TNE illustrations has a lot to do with people finding it to dark and depressing.

All the veins, see.

If I could give one piece of advice, it would be to wear sunscreen.

No, wait, I mean to use bright colours and nice clean high tech looking art.

 

[Erik Boielle]

00000 WEll, I'd like to play it like a hard scifi post-apocalypse recovery setting, not a 17th/18th century historical rework

00000

You can't do that!

How will everyone know how to act!

--

Its seems to recovered for a post-apocalypse thing.

More a post war boom sort of piece.

 

[MJD]

Space Viking is one of my favourite books.

 

[MJD]

Thus it would appear that I agree with Erik about at least one thing. Most of the time I'm not sure whether I agree or not, since I don't read Erikese too well. But we've been over that on another thread...

... but no Space Viking uis a book everyeone should own. Find a copy and treasure it, folks.