trader jim
SOC-14 1K
if a player had to or wanted to use a Large Fleet in a game how could they controol it or even keep track of it during the game??
use of fleet
- Thread starter trader jim
- Start date
Shadow Bear
SOC-12
Basing my reply on the idea that the player is the commanding admiral of the fleet, I would say through his or her squadron commanders and each of them via the individual ship commander.
Lots or area for commands to need to be coded and transmitted into the fog of operations. Without computerized control of massed jumps it could get rather mushy.
Sounds like lots of fun for the GM!!!
Lots or area for commands to need to be coded and transmitted into the fog of operations. Without computerized control of massed jumps it could get rather mushy.
Sounds like lots of fun for the GM!!!
Depending on number of players, you could:
1.) have a player play the admiral, and the others in the party play subordinate squadron commanders (as mentionned above);
2.) have a player play the admiral, and the others in the party play key members of the admiral's staff (operations, intelligence, logistics, navigation, communications, plans, etc.).
Of course, the GM is busy moving the Fleet and creating the fog of war for the players.
Sounds like a game I'd be up for!
1.) have a player play the admiral, and the others in the party play subordinate squadron commanders (as mentionned above);
2.) have a player play the admiral, and the others in the party play key members of the admiral's staff (operations, intelligence, logistics, navigation, communications, plans, etc.).
Of course, the GM is busy moving the Fleet and creating the fog of war for the players.
Sounds like a game I'd be up for!
My first thought was the amount of paperwork involved just to keep current logs of what every craft's action(s) and expenditures. OUCH!!
This is a thought that I've always had in the back of my mind as well on how to play it. In some ways, it comes down to whether one wishes to play it either as a High-Level conflict or a Low-Level conflict.
If the PC(s) have specific roles within a craft or crafts, it can be played low-level that related directly to the PC's occupational role. (eg: Firing of a specific weapon or Damage Control) Everything else outside the realm of the character's direct involvement can then be theorized. (ie: Craft movements and plotting)
If the PC(s) have a general role in the conflict (eg: Ship's Commander), it can be played high-level. The last thing on a Ship's Commander's mind will be the mundane tasks. (eg: Calculating the requirements to execute a plot for a craft's movement.) The Commander would be leaving that up to Officers who do those specific tasks. All the Commander wants is feedback reports resulting from orders given.
Another interest interplay could be to have PCs who fill both of these roles. So a combination of high and low level can be played and in some ways, the referee can also biased the high / low interaction towards all of the players with their PCs involved.
It would be an interest event for all concerned.
This is a thought that I've always had in the back of my mind as well on how to play it. In some ways, it comes down to whether one wishes to play it either as a High-Level conflict or a Low-Level conflict.
If the PC(s) have specific roles within a craft or crafts, it can be played low-level that related directly to the PC's occupational role. (eg: Firing of a specific weapon or Damage Control) Everything else outside the realm of the character's direct involvement can then be theorized. (ie: Craft movements and plotting)
If the PC(s) have a general role in the conflict (eg: Ship's Commander), it can be played high-level. The last thing on a Ship's Commander's mind will be the mundane tasks. (eg: Calculating the requirements to execute a plot for a craft's movement.) The Commander would be leaving that up to Officers who do those specific tasks. All the Commander wants is feedback reports resulting from orders given.
Another interest interplay could be to have PCs who fill both of these roles. So a combination of high and low level can be played and in some ways, the referee can also biased the high / low interaction towards all of the players with their PCs involved.
It would be an interest event for all concerned.
I'd do it as a side adventure.
I'd probably do it as some sort of prequel game that the players understood would generate real history, to be roleplayed as historical figures & not just a jaunt to indulge their own experimental whims.
Could also be run as a flashback. I often give my players information that their characters would never know... so its no trouble for them to have an adventure where they quest to find out the fate of one of the Kinunirs, get to the end of the adventure where their characters haven't found out & so logically would leave to go off on another adventure, so that's when I choose for us to play a flashback. They play the fleet action and find out what happened, & then they get the sense of grandeur of the universe & history as their characters board ship bound outsystem & take off past the asteroid belt where one of the ships they were looking for lies dormant, dull lights winking in space... etc
I'd probably do it as some sort of prequel game that the players understood would generate real history, to be roleplayed as historical figures & not just a jaunt to indulge their own experimental whims.
Could also be run as a flashback. I often give my players information that their characters would never know... so its no trouble for them to have an adventure where they quest to find out the fate of one of the Kinunirs, get to the end of the adventure where their characters haven't found out & so logically would leave to go off on another adventure, so that's when I choose for us to play a flashback. They play the fleet action and find out what happened, & then they get the sense of grandeur of the universe & history as their characters board ship bound outsystem & take off past the asteroid belt where one of the ships they were looking for lies dormant, dull lights winking in space... etc
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
IMTU I ran it this way:
I allowed the PC with the best "Fleet Tactics" skill be in charge. Now this was merely a squadron of 4-6 ships (the largest being 3ktns, the smallest being a pair of 100dtn Scouts). I let the rest of the players do their individual commands.
I ran missions out of Battle rider, and set up the OPfor. Which in this case, in my TNE campaign, was the Soleean Star Empire. The Fog of war came in just like sea battles. Ships falling in and out formation, sensor decoys, and the clash of these "giants".
The PC's Task force was one of commerce raiding--capturing ships was their victory conditions, for which they had hotbunked prize crews aboard (all these had to do was man the ship, and head for home where a Skilled crew would replace them and ferry them back out.
My "SOleean-RC war" became a series of sessions where attrition was the name of the game. Gain more ships than you lose, the enmey cannot replace them or the crews he's losing.
The difficulty or challenge was playing the Opfor when I knew what the Player's had to do. Now this I suppose was handled once-upon a time with Trillion Credit squadron, where the players managed a whole system and the fleets they could build and wage war with. It was more paper work than they were used to, and they appreciated all the detail that went into being a "mere GM" after that, lemme tell you.
Having the Ship's skippers write the bereaved loved ones back home too was a roleplaying challenge for them. (Yes, I made em do it. These were folks under their command, just like real life.). Took three months to do...but ti was worth it.
my .02credits worth lady & gentlemen of the boards
I allowed the PC with the best "Fleet Tactics" skill be in charge. Now this was merely a squadron of 4-6 ships (the largest being 3ktns, the smallest being a pair of 100dtn Scouts). I let the rest of the players do their individual commands.
I ran missions out of Battle rider, and set up the OPfor. Which in this case, in my TNE campaign, was the Soleean Star Empire. The Fog of war came in just like sea battles. Ships falling in and out formation, sensor decoys, and the clash of these "giants".
The PC's Task force was one of commerce raiding--capturing ships was their victory conditions, for which they had hotbunked prize crews aboard (all these had to do was man the ship, and head for home where a Skilled crew would replace them and ferry them back out.
My "SOleean-RC war" became a series of sessions where attrition was the name of the game. Gain more ships than you lose, the enmey cannot replace them or the crews he's losing.
The difficulty or challenge was playing the Opfor when I knew what the Player's had to do. Now this I suppose was handled once-upon a time with Trillion Credit squadron, where the players managed a whole system and the fleets they could build and wage war with. It was more paper work than they were used to, and they appreciated all the detail that went into being a "mere GM" after that, lemme tell you.
Having the Ship's skippers write the bereaved loved ones back home too was a roleplaying challenge for them. (Yes, I made em do it. These were folks under their command, just like real life.). Took three months to do...but ti was worth it.
my .02credits worth lady & gentlemen of the boards
Liam you sound like a chip off the old block 
I make my players do that sort of stuff too, they *hate* it but the appreciate it in a grander sense. I feel justified - whenever I play solo I make myself write 'colour' like that to bring the game to life for when I might want to re-read (or nick for my f2f Traveller games).
Trillion Credit Squadron handles the dilemma of the Opposing Forces nicely, but I would hand it to one or two of my players who I knew would live up to the challenge. I'd brief them beforehand about how Solee act, and get them into their mindset a while early. I'd also give them a carrot as a reward for playing the bad guys.... something like they get to run an adventure sometime soon. Oh, btw, we play more of an Ars Magica troupe style Traveller game so this of course makes sense, and players are more used to knowing stuff about the universe that their characters would never. Makes the roleplaying much more fun with that level of irony, we have found.
I make my players do that sort of stuff too, they *hate* it but the appreciate it in a grander sense. I feel justified - whenever I play solo I make myself write 'colour' like that to bring the game to life for when I might want to re-read (or nick for my f2f Traveller games).Trillion Credit Squadron handles the dilemma of the Opposing Forces nicely, but I would hand it to one or two of my players who I knew would live up to the challenge. I'd brief them beforehand about how Solee act, and get them into their mindset a while early. I'd also give them a carrot as a reward for playing the bad guys.... something like they get to run an adventure sometime soon. Oh, btw, we play more of an Ars Magica troupe style Traveller game so this of course makes sense, and players are more used to knowing stuff about the universe that their characters would never. Makes the roleplaying much more fun with that level of irony, we have found.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
DoomHunk "Liam you sound like a chip off the old block I make my players do that sort of stuff too, they *hate* it but the appreciate it in a grander sense. I feel justified - whenever I play solo I make myself write 'colour' like that to bring the game to life for when I might want to re-read (or nick for my f2f Traveller games)."
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One of the gamers died in real life during this series of games. I took over his character & their ship ( a Gazelle CE, painted neon Green with black stripes, RCS Green Hornet). Edward Duugamiisha was the PC's name. He rammed the Soleean ED's bridge that was pasting the resupply clipper for the PC's TF, aptly named TF-"Honor Harrington". (He was killed in a head on collision btw, outside FT Campbell KY 1997). Art following life, I guess. Edward Griffen was his real name. Lived the ganme like he lived his life. By the seat of the pants.
Maybe a bit too intense for some of you, But the player's appreciated Eddy's sacrifice, and in an odd way, we remember him still as the man who saved our bacon in the Desert. To absent Friends!
I make my players do that sort of stuff too, they *hate* it but the appreciate it in a grander sense. I feel justified - whenever I play solo I make myself write 'colour' like that to bring the game to life for when I might want to re-read (or nick for my f2f Traveller games)."--------------------------------------------------
One of the gamers died in real life during this series of games. I took over his character & their ship ( a Gazelle CE, painted neon Green with black stripes, RCS Green Hornet). Edward Duugamiisha was the PC's name. He rammed the Soleean ED's bridge that was pasting the resupply clipper for the PC's TF, aptly named TF-"Honor Harrington". (He was killed in a head on collision btw, outside FT Campbell KY 1997). Art following life, I guess. Edward Griffen was his real name. Lived the ganme like he lived his life. By the seat of the pants.
Maybe a bit too intense for some of you, But the player's appreciated Eddy's sacrifice, and in an odd way, we remember him still as the man who saved our bacon in the Desert. To absent Friends!
As the fleet Admiral, the player would give orders to the ship captains. He would have no direct control over any one of the ships without releiving the ship captain. His part would be to make policy concerning what the captains should do in concert when encountering anything.
The GM would be the one to actually run the ships for the PCs. The GM should take to heart the attitude that any order will be misinterpreted to the advantage of the order taker as much as possible.
The GM would be the one to actually run the ships for the PCs. The GM should take to heart the attitude that any order will be misinterpreted to the advantage of the order taker as much as possible.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Vegascat wrote:
"As the fleet Admiral, the player would give orders to the ship captains. He would have no direct control over any one of the ships without releiving the ship captain. His part would be to make policy concerning what the captains should do in concert when encountering anything. "
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Which is what CPT Saffron "Old Ghost" Ghulz /Player SSG Adrian Dillon did, imtu. AFter the initial two battles, he had a month's time in the "yards" with one of their captures, a Fer de Lance DE, and in place of the ship's boat hangar, had a "battle" bridge emplaced to better have command/ control, management of the battle.
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"The GM would be the one to actually run the ships for the PCs. The GM should take to heart the attitude that any order will be misinterpreted to the advantage of the order taker as much as possible."
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By the time of their third sortie into Soleean Space, the Task Force numbered ten ships (5 of the original vessels, plus five captures, these had the NPC crews back from the Safe of the RC aboard plus prize crews to man anything seized back again. Needless to say, things got a wee tight when a hit was scored and crew casualties mounted.
So I had to run the NPC skippers for the "task Force" too. ANd yes, I interpreted Ghulz's orders to the ship CO's advantage as much as possible.
They made a name for themselves with the enemy, and their efforts helped shorten the "war".
As a parallel issue, I used the Second world War as a theme for battles (planetary & other wise). The last big offensive, eg Solee mustered was their Ardennes "battle of the Bulge" into Thoezennt, and it was stopped cold.
Ghulz was deployed to Thoezennt with his TF as Mueller and the RC geared up towards Shenk's "island(planet-system)-hopping" campaign.
The sidebar adventures with personal touches added color/ flavor to the commanders.
Dealing with enemy prisoners who felt they were in the right and the PC's side was wrong was another special touch.
"As the fleet Admiral, the player would give orders to the ship captains. He would have no direct control over any one of the ships without releiving the ship captain. His part would be to make policy concerning what the captains should do in concert when encountering anything. "
--------------------------------------------------
Which is what CPT Saffron "Old Ghost" Ghulz /Player SSG Adrian Dillon did, imtu. AFter the initial two battles, he had a month's time in the "yards" with one of their captures, a Fer de Lance DE, and in place of the ship's boat hangar, had a "battle" bridge emplaced to better have command/ control, management of the battle.
--------------------------------------------------
"The GM would be the one to actually run the ships for the PCs. The GM should take to heart the attitude that any order will be misinterpreted to the advantage of the order taker as much as possible."
-------------------------------------------------
By the time of their third sortie into Soleean Space, the Task Force numbered ten ships (5 of the original vessels, plus five captures, these had the NPC crews back from the Safe of the RC aboard plus prize crews to man anything seized back again. Needless to say, things got a wee tight when a hit was scored and crew casualties mounted.
So I had to run the NPC skippers for the "task Force" too. ANd yes, I interpreted Ghulz's orders to the ship CO's advantage as much as possible.
They made a name for themselves with the enemy, and their efforts helped shorten the "war".
As a parallel issue, I used the Second world War as a theme for battles (planetary & other wise). The last big offensive, eg Solee mustered was their Ardennes "battle of the Bulge" into Thoezennt, and it was stopped cold.
Ghulz was deployed to Thoezennt with his TF as Mueller and the RC geared up towards Shenk's "island(planet-system)-hopping" campaign.
The sidebar adventures with personal touches added color/ flavor to the commanders.
Dealing with enemy prisoners who felt they were in the right and the PC's side was wrong was another special touch.
I've been through all of this several time.
As my first character this has become my favorite example.
I rolled the character as a naval commander
and he was pressed back into service for
pirate fighting. But after 10 years the ref had completed 3 intersellar wars between 3 20-30 system governments. My war was the 3rd and its a joy to deal with the mistakes of previous player groups.
It is a lot of paperwork. Fuel and supply
routes, protecting resources, intelligence
gathering, training, fleet maintenance, supporting new technology development and ship building. How about rolling up new command crews as replenishments.
Now toss politics into the party. I was the
only Assault Fleet Admiral that the Grand
Admiral has in his staff the others were rear admirals with defensive positions. He had retired after the 2nd war and was re-activated after the murder of the present grand admiral. The new GA was a player. We also had a captain/ ship engineer, a marine officer, a general and a couple nobles turned naval officers.
How about tough decisions. A cruiser with
battle damage of a destroyed jump drive, 15 parsecs behind enemy lines. Impossible to redistribute the crew and fuel without being overrun they volunteered to delay the approaching enemy fleet. Did I mention every 10 to 1 odds, since it was a suicide mission.
Or as Commodore preparing for the defense of the 2nd most significant strategic world. How about walking past a popular officers bar looking for a key a NPC seen in the area. A cadet comes to you and asks if you would have a toast with him and his friends. You politely decline, ask his unit and say a few positive words. It is not the St. Crispens speech but they're energized by the presence of a war hero.
A couple days later after routing the main enemy fleet and destroying they're assault squadron its time to hand out awards and review the casualties.
All the cadets were lost in battle.
So, if you really want to build teamwork. Put a face on the war. And then deliver the awards and promotions.
Then there is politics....admirals with a defensive role looking for reasons to grab your fleet. Nobles that reduced funding before the war begging for support or trying to grab planets for fiefs. Rebuilding the naval academy because the homeworld was nuked. Well, believe it or not we won that war. We could not out number the enemy so we hit them in their morale and the wallet. They were unable to econmically continue the war and sued for peace after loosing half of their ship building capability and a prime world. They didn't know we had 95% losses in my assault fleet and we're near economic collapse. Attrition hurts.
Talking about naval academies. Has anyone really put thought into them? The key is to see that the instructors survive. Any thoughts on where to put it. If your capital is too close to the front line... Yep, the admirals take care of the high level stuff. There is a lot of logic to having a naval officers training program with the civilian universities.
So, with a high level player group they should have two characters. One for the high level work and one for the field work. Otherwise, the paperwork will killem'. I also had a test pilot turned agent.
Our navy centralized around two 125 ton battleships, mine was Prince Regent, 80 or so combatants (including 30-40 18k battlecruisers) and support vessels. Enemy fleet battlewagons were as high as 2 million tons. Agreeing on a war strategy was usually the big issue.
Savage, JC Admiral
Agrarian Commonwealth Navy
As my first character this has become my favorite example.
I rolled the character as a naval commander
and he was pressed back into service for
pirate fighting. But after 10 years the ref had completed 3 intersellar wars between 3 20-30 system governments. My war was the 3rd and its a joy to deal with the mistakes of previous player groups.
It is a lot of paperwork. Fuel and supply
routes, protecting resources, intelligence
gathering, training, fleet maintenance, supporting new technology development and ship building. How about rolling up new command crews as replenishments.
Now toss politics into the party. I was the
only Assault Fleet Admiral that the Grand
Admiral has in his staff the others were rear admirals with defensive positions. He had retired after the 2nd war and was re-activated after the murder of the present grand admiral. The new GA was a player. We also had a captain/ ship engineer, a marine officer, a general and a couple nobles turned naval officers.
How about tough decisions. A cruiser with
battle damage of a destroyed jump drive, 15 parsecs behind enemy lines. Impossible to redistribute the crew and fuel without being overrun they volunteered to delay the approaching enemy fleet. Did I mention every 10 to 1 odds, since it was a suicide mission.
Or as Commodore preparing for the defense of the 2nd most significant strategic world. How about walking past a popular officers bar looking for a key a NPC seen in the area. A cadet comes to you and asks if you would have a toast with him and his friends. You politely decline, ask his unit and say a few positive words. It is not the St. Crispens speech but they're energized by the presence of a war hero.
A couple days later after routing the main enemy fleet and destroying they're assault squadron its time to hand out awards and review the casualties.
All the cadets were lost in battle.
So, if you really want to build teamwork. Put a face on the war. And then deliver the awards and promotions.
Then there is politics....admirals with a defensive role looking for reasons to grab your fleet. Nobles that reduced funding before the war begging for support or trying to grab planets for fiefs. Rebuilding the naval academy because the homeworld was nuked. Well, believe it or not we won that war. We could not out number the enemy so we hit them in their morale and the wallet. They were unable to econmically continue the war and sued for peace after loosing half of their ship building capability and a prime world. They didn't know we had 95% losses in my assault fleet and we're near economic collapse. Attrition hurts.
Talking about naval academies. Has anyone really put thought into them? The key is to see that the instructors survive. Any thoughts on where to put it. If your capital is too close to the front line... Yep, the admirals take care of the high level stuff. There is a lot of logic to having a naval officers training program with the civilian universities.
So, with a high level player group they should have two characters. One for the high level work and one for the field work. Otherwise, the paperwork will killem'. I also had a test pilot turned agent.
Our navy centralized around two 125 ton battleships, mine was Prince Regent, 80 or so combatants (including 30-40 18k battlecruisers) and support vessels. Enemy fleet battlewagons were as high as 2 million tons. Agreeing on a war strategy was usually the big issue.
Savage, JC Admiral
Agrarian Commonwealth Navy
I ran a campaign somewhat like that.
All the PCs were Luitenents right out of Command School (they got advanced placement due to "Outstanding evaluation during Departmental Training Rotation").
I gave each of them a 400 ton SDB and sent them on missions. So each PC got his own ship to command.
From there, promotion for all of them to Lt. Cmdr. and assignment to Destoryers. Put all the PC's ships in the same squadron, assigned to escort a Battlecruiser. The BC got blowed up real good by some Zoes and they had to scramble.
I was going to promote them again and assigne them to Cruisers, but they got sick of it.
All the PCs were Luitenents right out of Command School (they got advanced placement due to "Outstanding evaluation during Departmental Training Rotation").
I gave each of them a 400 ton SDB and sent them on missions. So each PC got his own ship to command.
From there, promotion for all of them to Lt. Cmdr. and assignment to Destoryers. Put all the PC's ships in the same squadron, assigned to escort a Battlecruiser. The BC got blowed up real good by some Zoes and they had to scramble.
I was going to promote them again and assigne them to Cruisers, but they got sick of it.
Sorry, they got bored. Only a few of us were ship captain. Actually, most people preferred staff positions. It also made things more interesting. In a particular battle the grand admiral and I created marines for a ground invasion of a key enemy starport.
Two staff members (1 marine, 1 legionaire) were now in command of a serious military operation. This is how a ref can determine the quality role playing of a player. They had a hard time not seeing us as our primary characters. One individual that often commented on my Patton-like strategy was the first to use tactical nukes.
Does anyone else have player designated fleet battles in a war that they could share experiences with?
Savage
Two staff members (1 marine, 1 legionaire) were now in command of a serious military operation. This is how a ref can determine the quality role playing of a player. They had a hard time not seeing us as our primary characters. One individual that often commented on my Patton-like strategy was the first to use tactical nukes.
Does anyone else have player designated fleet battles in a war that they could share experiences with?
Savage
Does anyone else have player related fleet action -
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Well, close. Many moons ago (circa 84) We played a pseudo traveller - warp had just been sold to humanity by the Vargr (who owned all of local space). Worried that the Vargr would get round to wiping humanity out once they got arround to it, a space fleet was built.
A 300t "Battleship" with 60 crew, three 400t merchants packed to the gills with Low Berth colonists plus colony gear - three 100t "scout/refuel" ships - Each player had a character on each scout plus one on the battleship. Depending upon the adventure we'd jump between parties. It worked better than I thought it would - I coerced each player into having very distinctive characters, wearing name badges etc - One bonus was that when fighting, the admiral had a personal relationship with every captain and didn;t want to have any of them hurt - normally PC's tend to sacrifice NPC ships - not this time.
I wouldn;t try it again - it only worked because I had two good roleplayers who loved the idea and dragged everyone else allong with them - but I'm glad I did it.
It ended up feeling like a cross between Battlestar galactica and star trek.
Since then, I've had a couple of larger ship actions involving players - but nothing that's worth reporting and nothing that I wouldn;t avoid if I had to do it again.
------
Well, close. Many moons ago (circa 84) We played a pseudo traveller - warp had just been sold to humanity by the Vargr (who owned all of local space). Worried that the Vargr would get round to wiping humanity out once they got arround to it, a space fleet was built.
A 300t "Battleship" with 60 crew, three 400t merchants packed to the gills with Low Berth colonists plus colony gear - three 100t "scout/refuel" ships - Each player had a character on each scout plus one on the battleship. Depending upon the adventure we'd jump between parties. It worked better than I thought it would - I coerced each player into having very distinctive characters, wearing name badges etc - One bonus was that when fighting, the admiral had a personal relationship with every captain and didn;t want to have any of them hurt - normally PC's tend to sacrifice NPC ships - not this time.
I wouldn;t try it again - it only worked because I had two good roleplayers who loved the idea and dragged everyone else allong with them - but I'm glad I did it.
It ended up feeling like a cross between Battlestar galactica and star trek.
Since then, I've had a couple of larger ship actions involving players - but nothing that's worth reporting and nothing that I wouldn;t avoid if I had to do it again.
