US$ to Cr?
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I've seen $3=1CrImp elsewhere on these boards, as well.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
There is no chance that US$1 = Cr1. That's impossible, based on many of the prices of the Classic Traveller LBB3 equipment.
For example, an ATV is a mere Cr30,000.
Huh? Who the heck in the modern 21st Century USA can go out and buy an armored, pressurized, vaccuum-proof, lunar-capable 10-ton truck for US$30,000? Yes, the technology exists for such a vehicle, but who will actually be able to buy one for a mere $30,000?
For example, an ATV is a mere Cr30,000.
Huh? Who the heck in the modern 21st Century USA can go out and buy an armored, pressurized, vaccuum-proof, lunar-capable 10-ton truck for US$30,000? Yes, the technology exists for such a vehicle, but who will actually be able to buy one for a mere $30,000?
Spiderfish
SOC-12
Well according to that converter 30,000 CRImp is just under $100,000 US.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Maladominus - you don't think those trucks advertised daily on TV can accomplish that? How about just taking one to those guys on discovery channel?
Seriously, vehicles were a lot cheaper in 1971. Heck, they were a lot cheaper in 1987 (when I bought my first new car)! Hence, the $1 conversion, then.
Seriously, vehicles were a lot cheaper in 1971. Heck, they were a lot cheaper in 1987 (when I bought my first new car)! Hence, the $1 conversion, then.
fredofmars
SOC-12
My guess is around US$2=Cr1 (or at least that is what I use).
I wonder how much it would take to get one of those GAZs street-legal in the US? My wife wants one now!
I wonder how much it would take to get one of those GAZs street-legal in the US? My wife wants one now!
Spiderfish
SOC-12
Yes your wife.
And if we make the assumption that the prices are based on a TL15 economy some low TL ATV is a piece of crap isn't it? Unless it was made a long time ago and is now a rare museum piece that is.
I think pricing is based on the local economy, with higher tech being skewed to the more expensive and low tech being cheaper. That is, buying a TL9 ATV on a TL9 planet is Cr30,000 - the same for buying a TL15 ATV on a TL15 planet - at least that is how I read the LBBs.
The economics of Traveller are seriously flawed and oversimplified. Then again, it not supposed to be CPA role playing.
The economics of Traveller are seriously flawed and oversimplified. Then again, it not supposed to be CPA role playing.
I did the conversion in my "Consolodated Equipment List" for both classic Traveller and for GURPS Traveller. The conversion factors are on the notes page at the front of the book.
Why 2 difforent factors? Because GURPS is based on it's publication year and CT is based on it's.
EDIT: Oh you can download a copy at my web site.
Why 2 difforent factors? Because GURPS is based on it's publication year and CT is based on it's.
EDIT: Oh you can download a copy at my web site.
archhealer
SOC-12
One thing to keep in mind when converting credits to currency: You can't, since it's so far in the future.
For example, that vac-rated lunar-capable headed pressurized armored ATV? They'd be really expensive now, yes, but TL and all aside, if they're produced en masse, they'd be cheaper, even at lower TLs.
Also, some things we have that're relatively cheap may well become far more expensive in the future. Supply/Demand will be pretty different in the context of the OTU Vs. The modern US. I'd say the closest I've heard that sounded reasonable is the 1cr=3$US, but even that breaks down here and there, with small, supposedly inexpensive items costing far more than they should and larger, more expensive items being all over the place.
For example, that vac-rated lunar-capable headed pressurized armored ATV? They'd be really expensive now, yes, but TL and all aside, if they're produced en masse, they'd be cheaper, even at lower TLs.
Also, some things we have that're relatively cheap may well become far more expensive in the future. Supply/Demand will be pretty different in the context of the OTU Vs. The modern US. I'd say the closest I've heard that sounded reasonable is the 1cr=3$US, but even that breaks down here and there, with small, supposedly inexpensive items costing far more than they should and larger, more expensive items being all over the place.
P
Pickles
Guest
The thing to do is to stay away from detailed comparisons. Work in basic equivalents, such as 'standard mass-produced personal transport' which could be a car today and an air/raft at TL10.
As long as like is compared with like, a conversion rate should work well enough for any game. After all, who really worries about such things in actual play?
princelian
SOC-12
T20 states (can't give you page number, sorry) that US $3 = 1 Cr.
I have always worked under the assumption that 1 Cr is an hour of skilled labor [within the Imperial definition of "skilled," i.e., Comp-1, Elec-1, Mech-1, Engn-1, or the T20 equivalents]. Also, this is "human skilled labor," not "robotic labor," which is where that armored, vacc-rated, lunar-capable, 10-ton, etc. ATV is built.
General Products, or your Traveller universe's equivalent, has a robotic factory that churns the things out at 10 per second, and can be re-tooled for different tech levels by the push of a button. (Aren't memory metals grand?) Why does GP, a TL15 megacorporation, make TL9 ATVs? Because the TL9 market world has the capability to make spare parts/fuel/etc. for TL9 ATVs and not TL10 ATVs. Sure, some of the wealthier folks pay to bring in high-tech vehicles (probably mostly TL15 tricked-out speeders), but not the bread-and-butter common folk.
Take televisions in the United States. They were horrendously expensive when introduced. In 1948 (after a few years on the market), they ranged in price from the $100 3" Pilot's TV to the DuMont 20" set for $2495. That's 1948 dollars, there, so up that by an order of magnitude and you get $1,000-$25,000 for a TV. And a crappy TV at that.
Now, you can get a 32" LCD TV for about $1,000 or even less, and if you wanted a 3" TV (in color, even), you could get one to carry around with you for about $200. If you just wanted a no-frills 15" TV, you could probably find one for less than $100.
Now, would General Products put some push-the-envelope features on their ATVs to be marketed on the TL9 world? Certainly! Their ATVs are going to be superior to the home-built ones (TL15 engineering programs ensure that all the kinks are totally worked-out and the materials are superior) and probably be TL 9.1-9.2. Still low enough that the infrastructure on the planet can support them, but high enough to lure the buyer into buying the GP-112XV instead of the local brand.
It's all about mass production and mass consumption....
I have always worked under the assumption that 1 Cr is an hour of skilled labor [within the Imperial definition of "skilled," i.e., Comp-1, Elec-1, Mech-1, Engn-1, or the T20 equivalents]. Also, this is "human skilled labor," not "robotic labor," which is where that armored, vacc-rated, lunar-capable, 10-ton, etc. ATV is built.
General Products, or your Traveller universe's equivalent, has a robotic factory that churns the things out at 10 per second, and can be re-tooled for different tech levels by the push of a button. (Aren't memory metals grand?) Why does GP, a TL15 megacorporation, make TL9 ATVs? Because the TL9 market world has the capability to make spare parts/fuel/etc. for TL9 ATVs and not TL10 ATVs. Sure, some of the wealthier folks pay to bring in high-tech vehicles (probably mostly TL15 tricked-out speeders), but not the bread-and-butter common folk.
Take televisions in the United States. They were horrendously expensive when introduced. In 1948 (after a few years on the market), they ranged in price from the $100 3" Pilot's TV to the DuMont 20" set for $2495. That's 1948 dollars, there, so up that by an order of magnitude and you get $1,000-$25,000 for a TV. And a crappy TV at that.
Now, you can get a 32" LCD TV for about $1,000 or even less, and if you wanted a 3" TV (in color, even), you could get one to carry around with you for about $200. If you just wanted a no-frills 15" TV, you could probably find one for less than $100.
Now, would General Products put some push-the-envelope features on their ATVs to be marketed on the TL9 world? Certainly! Their ATVs are going to be superior to the home-built ones (TL15 engineering programs ensure that all the kinks are totally worked-out and the materials are superior) and probably be TL 9.1-9.2. Still low enough that the infrastructure on the planet can support them, but high enough to lure the buyer into buying the GP-112XV instead of the local brand.
It's all about mass production and mass consumption....
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
And, they will pay through the nose to have the thing maintained.
They will have to buy special parts and have specially certified mechanics put them in. And, the shipping will be horrendous, as they will have to come from 4 parsecs away. (Not that I'm speaking from personal experience, or anything....)
I've usually used Cr1=$5 based upon price points for vehicles and expenses from TTB versus Anchorage prices. (Cost of living in Anchorage is high...) But it doesn't work when compared to canonical costs of living, nor does the $3:Cr1.
A middle class income in MT says Cr1750/month for an adult. Given that that works out to $5350/month, given $3=Cr1, even that is a good bit high... that's $69550/year (also given the 28 day month and OTU year of 13 months). Spending $70K a year puts the figures higher than I care for. My father makes $70K as an upper non-management civil servant. Master's teachers in Anchorage (upper part of the middle third salary wise in the nation) top out at $65,000, but generally are still firmly middle class.
The other problem is that the canonical (MT) cost of living of Cr250*Soc. Realistically, that's bad. It's way too low for the high end, (soc 9+) and plenty too high for the low end...
A middle class income in MT says Cr1750/month for an adult. Given that that works out to $5350/month, given $3=Cr1, even that is a good bit high... that's $69550/year (also given the 28 day month and OTU year of 13 months). Spending $70K a year puts the figures higher than I care for. My father makes $70K as an upper non-management civil servant. Master's teachers in Anchorage (upper part of the middle third salary wise in the nation) top out at $65,000, but generally are still firmly middle class.
The other problem is that the canonical (MT) cost of living of Cr250*Soc. Realistically, that's bad. It's way too low for the high end, (soc 9+) and plenty too high for the low end...
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