University help required

[wiggywade]

Hi everyone,

This may have been answered before (I'm new here) but...what classes can enter uni? The Rogue PC example says he can't go to uni because he is a rogue - but where in the rules can this be found?

Also, if a 1st-level army PC enrols in a uni, when he gains xps am I right in assuming that they go towards his army class levels?

Many thanks for ay assistance.

 

[RabidVargr]

Most characters in a university apply the levels to acadamiac or Professional, since these apply the most to what you'll be studying there. Only way I'd allow military levels is if they were OCS students, and only one level max even if they went through a few terms. Ya can't learn to sail ships by sitting on shore....

RV

Oh yeah, for your first level army guy, when he's in the uni, he's not serving actual army, therefore unelegible for army levels. (Unless your GM allows the modified rule above) He'll have to pick up a PRO 1 or ACA 1 or maybe even TRAV 1 (Studies abroad).

 

[wiggywade]

Thanks for that. I was going to allow OTC members to acquire military levels (sponsored through college) but was unclear on the others.

Maybe you can help on another topic...

Animals - do the attributes modify FRW saves and BAB as normal? The examples in the pre-gen NPC section imply they do, but Str isn't added on to damage. I rolled a 3200 kg pouncer doing 1d6 damage and it seemed rather odd.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by wiggywade:
Hi everyone,

This may have been answered before (I'm new here) but...what classes can enter uni? The Rogue PC example says he can't go to uni because he is a rogue - but where in the rules can this be found?

Use your common sense. If it can be learned in a University/College/Academy, you can use the University part of the rules.

Ex: A Belter (Mining Engineer) that is rather strong on theoric rather than practical knowledge. (compared to a "Belter's since 7 generation")

Ex: Any scientific, be it hard science or social science (Noble sure must like taking Polical Science courses

.

Ex: Since Theft, Fencing, Looting isn't part of any curriculum, I suspect that Rogue can't be learned in university. Same goes for Traveller or Barbarian.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by wiggywade:
I rolled a 3200 kg pouncer doing 1d6 damage and it seemed rather odd.

A Giant Sloth ;p

Big, Sharp Claws but slow as hell

 

[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by Sandman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wiggywade:
Hi everyone,

This may have been answered before (I'm new here) but...what classes can enter uni? The Rogue PC example says he can't go to uni because he is a rogue - but where in the rules can this be found?

Use your common sense. If it can be learned in a University/College/Academy, you can use the University part of the rules.

Ex: A Belter (Mining Engineer) that is rather strong on theoric rather than practical knowledge. (compared to a "Belter's since 7 generation")

Ex: Any scientific, be it hard science or social science (Noble sure must like taking Polical Science courses

.

Ex: Since Theft, Fencing, Looting isn't part of any curriculum, I suspect that Rogue can't be learned in university. Same goes for Traveller or Barbarian. </font>[/QUOTE]IIRC: Entering University is not restricted by class. All you have to do is pick it as your next 'term' and make the admissions roll. (With the possible exception that your GM may have a reason for not allowing the character to go to University).

As far getting into University, I could easily see a rogue using it as a chance to change their fortunes, or improve their skills or as a cover for other activities. Given some of the people I met in college, I would certainly say that you can take the rogue class with the experience gained there...such individuals probably skipped classes a lot or applied what they learned in 'creative' new ways.

Traveller and Barbarian should certainly be able to enter University if they can pass the acceptance test. As a GM I would probably make the Barbarian's player come up with a background story (full of juicy hooks I can use later) that explains how he managed to pull it off. Since the Traveller class simply represents someone who spends a significant amount of time 'travelling' and the wide variety of skills and experiences that entails I see no reason whatsoever for not allowing them into University.

Of course, Barbarian levels can't be earned using University experience points based on the standard restrictions of the class. Traveller levels shouldn't be hard to justify...depends on the type of University or degree program. I've seen a couple of starship's that were built as travelling universities which could well justify it. Plus programs that involve a lot of travel could do it as well.

 

[Reginald]

Originally posted by wiggywade:

This may have been answered before (I'm new here) but...what classes can enter uni? The Rogue PC example says he can't go to uni because he is a rogue - but where in the rules can this be found?

Anybody got a page reference to that? I want confirmation.

Also, if a 1st-level army PC enrols in a uni, when he gains xps am I right in assuming that they go towards his army class levels?

If his starting class is Army, then he can use his XP from the university term to advance his Army level. After that he must then serve his first term in the Army (see Prior History), regardless if he completed his OTC or not.

 

[themink]

Originally posted by Sandman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wiggywade:
I rolled a 3200 kg pouncer doing 1d6 damage and it seemed rather odd.

A Giant Sloth ;p

Big, Sharp Claws but slow as hell

</font>[/QUOTE]It's a drop bear!!

(One of Australia's lesser known perils)

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by The Mink:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sandman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wiggywade:
I rolled a 3200 kg pouncer doing 1d6 damage and it seemed rather odd.

A Giant Sloth ;p

Big, Sharp Claws but slow as hell

</font>[/QUOTE]It's a drop bear!!

(One of Australia's lesser known perils) </font>[/QUOTE]

D*#M! I wanted the first CotI keyboard kill, not to be the first victim

OK, its only a virtual kill but if I had had my usual surfin drink of a large cold Dr. Pepper you'd owe me a new laptop, printer, and the cleaning bill for the wall, posters, and my jeans, seriously you got me that bad

We have drop bears in Canada too for your info, so buy plenty of repellent if you come to visit!

If I hadn't already given you five stars for elsewhere you'd get it for that

 

[zensunni]

Originally posted by Reginald:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wiggywade:
The Rogue PC example says he can't go to uni because he is a rogue - but where in the rules can this be found?

Anybody got a page reference to that? I want confirmation.</font>[/QUOTE]Hmm... not sure if you're looking for the page number for the example mentioned or the elusive rules summary. The example is on pg. 141 under section 5. Regarding the page(s) of the rules backing-up that statement, I'm still hoping someone will be able to provide that.

As far as I can tell, anyone should be able to attend U.; the only requirement is that they pass the admissions check. The Rouge example contradicts this, but I can't find anywhere in the book that supports the statement made there.

As long as university questions are being asked, does anyone find it questionable that people are required to have a Masters before going for a Doctorate? Is this a part of the OTU? Today, people can and do go for Doctorates with just a Bachelors. The only exception I can immediately think of is that you're required (I believe) to get a Law degree before going for a JD.

Also questionable is the requirement that the field of a higher degree is the same, albeit more refined, than the original Bachelors. People can and do change fields completely between degrees; and some fields that at first glance seem incompatible can actually be quite complimentary. A person with a Bachelors in psychology could go for a Masters in CIS (e.g., person going into artificial intelligence, although they'd likely have taken quite a few CIS courses during their undergrad years).

I think it would be more realistic to make these the norm, but requiring them just doesn't fit real-life. If anything, I'd suggest just increasing the Admissions DC if the character is going straight for a Doctorate without the benefit of a Masters (or maybe decreasing it if going for a Doctorate with a Masters already in hand--the admissions DCs already seem quite tough--and while one is likely to be turned down from a school, how many people limit their chances/choices by applying to just one???).

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by BrennanHawkwood:

Originally posted by Sandman:
[qb] As far getting into University, I could easily see a rogue using it as a chance to change their fortunes, or improve their skills or as a cover for other activities. Given some of the people I met in college, I would certainly say that you can take the rogue class with the experience gained there...such individuals probably skipped classes a lot or applied what they learned in 'creative' new ways.

Traveller and Barbarian should certainly be able to enter University if they can pass the acceptance test.
[snip snip]

As I said, you have to use your logic. Sure, a barbarian can go and be accepted into university. Same goes for a Rogue, but you'll be hard pressed to explain how you got so good at Pickpocket at university

I'm not saying that characters should be barred from university, but that you have to explain what you are learning there. Quantum Physics is easy to explain. So is Economics and Botany or Engineering.

Wilderness survival is a bit less, and Lockpicking more so.

I prefer the "If you can explain it and not sound as a muncking then it's ok" approach.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by far-trader:
We have drop bears in Canada too for your info, so buy plenty of repellent if you come to visit!

We even have the North Pacific Deckpecker who gives hard time to the Navy

http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal1999-35.html

 

[helbent4]

Good points, about University!

This is one thing that SCREAMS for an official clarification. I don't care too much if the Air/Raft is the correct weight, but if you have to struggle just to basically create character, that's a real hindrance.

The conceptional difficulty for me is in CT rules Universtiy was taken at the beginning of a career, the skills (etc.) were taken, then the career was played out until the player was ready to begin play (willing or not). In T20, a charcter essentially beings play at the end point of the prior history, then you go back and figure out the career he's had until you arrive back at the beginning.

With University, does past character levels or prior history (before or after) somehow disallow someone from going to University or the levels you take while there?

In essence, it should come down to character concept. To paraphrase tan earlier post on this threat, the player chose not to have the Roguecharacter not attend school not becuase the admissions people took one look at the character sheet and shut the door in his face, but because the player decided the character was just not going to go to school regardless (due to inclination, lack of opportunity, evan a personal or family obligation etc.).

This is a little different from Old School CT, whereas a career was largely (if not exclusively) the luck of the dice. I don't think there is anything in the rules that prevents a character who takes a level in barabarian from going to University, other than conceptually it's hard to justify. Refs have to pay attention to character concept now!

As for the levels you can take while in University, that depends on character concept. A typical 18 year-old honour student levels up to 3rd! If they have not served a term of service in a Core or Service Class, what do they take the levels in?

I guess it would make the most sense if University in and of itself were to list the skills earned per level gained, feats, etc. But then, I guess that's the same as saying levels gained in University might as well be Academic or Professional levels.

As a digression, according to the rules you can't be part of the reserves without first having served a term in a given service. So, once out of the Army/Navy/Marines you can take further levels, but you cannot be a typical "weekend warrior".

 

[sandman]

The way I see it, you can go to university as long as you can pass the exams.

Your barbarian could if he'd pass the admission exam.

IMTU, you begin as a level 1 Character. THEN you do your prior history. You can choose to go to University, Enlist, Get employed, etc.

Note that there isn't always a requirement to do your first term in the carreer you got your first level into. It is noted when you cannot. (Belters, Barbarian, etc.) Simply because you're a doctor doesn't mean you couldn't sell your services as a Mercenary, you share the same risks and the same reward. You just can't multiclass into merc if you don't started as one or have levels in Service Class.

That's IMTU...

As for the Official take on University and class vs Prior History terms, we shall ask our hosts, Hunter or Martin.

 

[helbent4]

Sandman,

Thant's how I ended up rolling my Noble character. He leveled in University, then served a term in the Navy, then spent the rest of his carrer as a Noble. But the first levels, the ones that were gained in University, were taken as Noble, even though his next step on the career path was Noble. I'm just temped to say "hey, we couldn't multiclass in the old days, so you guys can't MC now!" It would make things a lot easier.

Of course, it would be easiest if University would give you a set series of skills, skill points, and feats, but no actual XP and thus no levels. This would mimic CT, as University gave you solid benefits while being outside the standard Terms of service in a career, which were the de facto "levels" of CT. You effectively served a term in school (if you made it), but it was not really considered a term in and of itself.