Twilight 2046

[commando]

Basically world war 3 happens in the 2039 but comes to fore in 2041.

Russia, China, Pakistan vs. USA, NATO, India.

HOw and whys:

1. Worldwide economic depression in the 2020s.

2. Rise of Nationalist and Neo Fascist movements.

3. Russia becomes a dictatorial fascist state in a Hitler style regime due to longtime economic depression and the Caucausus/Chechnya quagmire.

Lately The Russian fascist neo nazi movement is growing but just like before world war 2, it tooks a worldwide economic depression to bring them to power.

4. worldwide climate changes results in major crop failures, famines, disasters etc.

5. Indian-Chinese cold war. Both countries become major competitors in the world market. This is the result of a Chinese "cold war" with the USA and the rise of India due to massive U.S. and western Investments. China and India are also at odds with disputed territory in the Himalayas and Tibet as well as Chinese support of Pakistan. The crisis over Tibet and Burma has further excasserbated this problem. The worldwide depression has further affected both countries further heightening nationalism in both countries.

Leading up to war:

2020s:The end of the war in the Caucasus, one of the first orders of the new Russian government is to plan and implement a massive "gloves off" offensive against the Chechen and Caucausus rebels. Huge search and destroy offensives aided by large chemical weapons use manage to brutally destroy or stamp out the rebellions. The character of this offensive is genocidal with brutally harkening back to the Eastern front in world war 2 and Bosnia. The Chechens are virtually exterminated and this is reminiscent to the Armenian massacres by the Turks in the early 20th century. This prompts economic sanctions and condemnation and a straining of ties with NATO and the USA.

A reborn and vibrant Russian economy(boosted by economic reorganization, stamping out of corruption and the rooting out of the Russians mafias(those not supporting the government). With their economies still in shambles, many former soviet states opt to join Russia in a new Union. Only Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Lithuiania, & Estonia resist.

Burma and China sign a economic military pact. India is enraged as it views Burma as a backdoor to India and is already pissed off at Chinese support of Pakistan and its meddling in the Kashmir. India funds and supplies insurgencies and rebel groups in Burma. As a tit for tat, China begins huge funding for Kashmiri rebels in sinc with Paksitan, this spirals to India funding, supplying and training Tibetan rebels and this sparks a new rebellion in Tibet. Also artillery and armed clashes become more common in the China-India border.

The Lhasa massacre. Chinese troops brutally repress a peaceful demonstration in the capital of Tibet(Lhassa) killing thousands. This prompts worldwide sanctions and ignites a guerilla war in Tibet.

Decline of the Chinese economy and the rise of India: The worldwide economic depression coupled with worldwide economic sanctions and the shift of western investments from China to India has sparked a major downturn in the Chinese economy. China perceives that it is being blockaded by the west.

China-Russia alliance: With both countries being sanctioned by the west. China and Russia forges a major military-economic pact. Russia and China also settle their territorial disputes.

Massive rearmament of China and Russia.

 

[deadlock]

Greetings and salutations,

You seem to have a good history started, but you need to include why the nations went to war. What particular incident(s) was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[commando]

I forgot to add:

"to be continued" anyways:

By 2030, western economy is on the rebound climbing from depression to recovery. Depression has caused destabilization in most countries in the world resulting in small border wars, civil wars, unrest, martial laws etc.

The U.S. sees parts of its country fall in martial law due to riots caused by massive job layoffs. but by 2030 it is in the upswing. The U.S. is still the most powerful country in the world but has been challenged by China and a resurgent Russia. The economic depression affected its international role so much that it has become somewhat isolationist(though it still maintains ties with NATO). Its aid programs around the world has been badly affected by the depression ceasing for all intents and purposes. Also military spending in research has suffered due with many of the funds going to restarting the economy.

In response to Chinese and Russian rearmament. India and the U.S. respond in kind along with the NATO countries to a limited degree.

France leaves NATO. Due to disputes with the U.S. and UK. France however still maintains some ties with NATO.

Prelude:

The straw that breaks the Camel's back:

Since Russia became fascist. Ukraine and Russia's diplomatic relations took a downturn. Ukraine had a sizable Russian minority and some territorial disputes with Russia. Its economy was still in a shambles, its military significantly behind Russia's. THe only thing that was significant was its sizable nuclear arsenal. Russia was financing a guerilla war within Ukraine(mostly done by ethnic Russians). Russia uses this as a context to invade. Before the massive Russian invasion. Precision strikes by cruise missles, airborne laser platforms, JDAMs on Ukrainian missle silos manages to eliminate most if not all of them. The central government in Kiev is decapitated by the assasination of the President as well as his advisers and chiefs of staff in a commando raid causes confusion and panic. The Ukrainian army is not really a match for the Russian forces as it is antiquated(in many cases they are still using t-72s or t-80s). As the Russians were nearing Kiev, in desperation, the Ukrainians launch a few tactical nukes to destroy the Russians offensive. The Russians were able to shoot down most of the tactical nukes(they used airborne lasers and patriot type missles). One managed to get through and maul a Russian division. The Russian response was devastating with the Russians nuking major Ukrainian troops concentrations. Major popoulation and industrial centers are not to be harmed but pocketed and bypassed(though Kiev itself is nuked).The major population centers are encircled and bypassed. Within a few months, the Russians manage to overrun the whole country with some sizable pockets of resistance which are massively hit with chemical weapons. A few Ukrainian ministers manage to escape and form a government in exile. While organized resistance has ceased, partisan groups suddenly spring up and harass the Russians.

To be continued...

 

[mbrinkhues]

Question:

How likely will NATO survive between the US and France leaving? Wouldn't a stronger European Defence Pact (WEU) with an associated GB (IIRC they are not a member) and ties to the US be more realistic?

And Russia going "Hitler" is a bit to strong for my liking. Russians accept hardship and stress pretty calm. Given persons like Putin isn't going back to Stalin or Breshnew style "Dictatorship of Proletarians" (the Sowjet System) more likely and easier?

Russian "Patriot" is IIRC the SA300 "Giant" and really has some Anti-Missile abilities.

Michael

 

[deadlock]

Greetings and salutations,

Ah, that's one of the straws that broke the camel's back. I await what else you have done with the history of Twilight:2046.

And Russia going "Hitler" is a bit to strong for my liking. Russians accept hardship and stress pretty calm. Given persons like Putin isn't going back to Stalin or Breshnew style "Dictatorship of Proletarians" (the Sowjet System) more likely and easier?

I have to agree with you that Russians do accept hardship and stress as a way of life. If a "Hitler" or "Stalin" did end up as a leader of the resurgent Soviet Union, then his manuevering into power would have been very subtle "Hitler" or brutal "Stalin". Actually, if the person is modelled after Hitler, go all the way. Hitler was a great leader for working the crowd into a frenzy and the generals knew this. Therefore, they helped him get into power but had formed their own "party" within the new government. The new president is great at social functions, but when it came to war... He would tell his generals what he wanted done and they would do it. Think of it as Hitler and Rommel, Hitler and Himmler, Hitler and the generals that were not trying to kill him. The new president would handle the social and economic aspects while the generals dealt with the military aspects. The new president's "Eva Braun" could also work for the General Staff. She would whisper their plans into his ear and he would come back to them saying he had an idea.

I apologize, I was speaking of another subject matter. Back to my original train of thought.

The hardline Communists would back his play because
</font>

1. it would put them back in power</font>
2. the economic plan he presented looked/sounded feasible</font>
3. the new Soviet Union's position as a world power would increase.</font>

Not to be left behind, a few Russian Mafia groups would also back his play by being the people to supply him with whatever the government could not and by "dealing" with problems that required an alternative solution the government could not provide. Eventually, they become the new Internal Security (Gestapo, SS, KGB) in effect, then they get the uniforms.

 

[jcrocker]

One question - why would the new USSR be best buddies with China? The old USSR had a large-scale falling out forty years ago, they've never trusted each other since. A new Russian Hitler/Stalin would probably scare the pants off Bejing, especially with events in the Ukraine that you've outlined. You'd have to pull a major rabbit out of the hat to cover that - or just go for the 'barfight in a blender' of a three-way war.

 

[deadlock]

Greetings and salutations,

China-Russia alliance: With both countries being sanctioned by the west. China and Russia forge a major military-economic pact. Russia and China also settle their territorial disputes.

That sounds like a good reason to me. Plus, if you use the "Hitler" leads Russia, then that has many possiblities unto itself. From history, we learned that Hitler made nice with Stalin. Apparently, the ulterior motive was to take Russia. Maybe that is what's going on with this. The new Soviet leader thinks China can be taken. IIRC, China does not have any nukes at our current point in time. Maybe by 2046, they may have enough to keep smaller countries from attacking/invading. The new Soviet Union would not be threatened by this once they bring their other countries under foot.

China seeing that they may not be on equal footing with NBC weapons, but it would have the manpower and I think they would start putting women into combat units. The other train of thought is if China signs a pact with Russia:
</font>

• mutual borders are protected</font>
• trade</font>
• sharing of technology</font>
• play along with Russia until China develops an effective plan to protect itself from a northern invasion or can invade into the Soviet territories.</font>

But that is only my opinion.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Marquis Deadlock:
Greetings and salutations,

Ah, that's one of the straws that broke the camel's back. I await what else you have done with the history of Twilight:2046.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
And Russia going "Hitler" is a bit to strong for my liking. Russians accept hardship and stress pretty calm. Given persons like Putin isn't going back to Stalin or Breshnew style "Dictatorship of Proletarians" (the Sowjet System) more likely and easier?

I have to agree with you that Russians do accept hardship and stress as a way of life. If a "Hitler" or "Stalin" did end up as a leader of the resurgent Soviet Union, then his manuevering into power would have been very subtle "Hitler" or brutal "Stalin". Actually, if the person is modelled after Hitler, go all the way. Hitler was a great leader for working the crowd into a frenzy and the generals knew this. Therefore, they helped him get into power but had formed their own "party" within the new government. The new president is great at social functions, but when it came to war... He would tell his generals what he wanted done and they would do it. Think of it as Hitler and Rommel, Hitler and Himmler, Hitler and the generals that were not trying to kill him. The new president would handle the social and economic aspects while the generals dealt with the military aspects. The new president's "Eva Braun" could also work for the General Staff. She would whisper their plans into his ear and he would come back to them saying he had an idea.

</font>[/QUOTE]Short note on history: Hitler was despised by most generals ("Der kleine Gefreite - The little Privat" [IIRC he was a corporal at the end]) The group that brought him to power (and believed they could "control" him) was the "Zentrum" Party (Conservative party, connections to industry, fills the roles of British "Tory" or german CDU/CSU[actually formed mostly by Zentrum guys post 1945] and FDP) There is a nice drawing showing Hitler with his way of the "german greeting" (Hand back, almost horizontal) and the shadows of "big money guys" standing behind titled "Millionen stehen hinter mir - Millions stand behind me"

And one more: You don't need Nazis to have Faschists (Franko, Mussolini, Peron, Stalin[Yes, the UdSSR system was a Faschism]). And Faschist Neo-Nazis is a double (All Nazis are Faschist)

I apologize, I was speaking of another subject matter. Back to my original train of thought.

The hardline Communists would back his play because
</font>

1. it would put them back in power</font>
2. the economic plan he presented looked/sounded feasible</font>
3. the new Soviet Union's position as a world power would increase.</font>

I agree with "old school communists" and, in case of a Putin-style leader (Btw: I like Putin!) the military joining sides with him. And with clever propaganda quite an amount of the people (Life was better for many in the old days - A roof over the head and food on the table beats no roof/food but democracy for most humans)

Not to be left behind, a few Russian Mafia groups would also back his play by being the people to supply him with whatever the government could not and by "dealing" with problems that required an alternative solution the government could not provide. Eventually, they become the new Internal Security (Gestapo, SS, KGB) in effect, then they get the uniforms.

Integrating the "Organitska" into the Internal Security should be easy - If one believes the rumors half of them are former "Kommisariat of State Security" personel. And I believe most of the RSF would enjoy getting the old powers back.


As for the rest of your history: Can we skip the Twilight war and use the environment for Mercenaries/Smugglers/Resistance fighters Sorry, I prefer "Techno Thriller" to "Post doomsday" (Merc to Twilight)

+ Russia and China as uneasy allies allow for a lot of espionage by all sides (Are they really keeping the treaties? How can the block be broken up)

+ How is South Afrika going? Between them SA, Namibia and Russia share how much of the "strategic minerals?"

+ Russian theoretical science is great but technological development lacks in some areas. Spy hunting in the oil industrie, exspecially in Alaska. Sabotaging the Trans-Alaska Pipeline to cause an Eco-Outcry and cripple the "old enemy"

+ Support the Ukranian resistance movement. Smuggle weapons in and/or persons out

+ Kill the EU, make it a Franco-German dominated part and some Independents (Italy, GB) than set it on the minor states in the east, exspecially Poland (IRL the Poles pissed off France mightily joining the US in Iraq. France has looooong memories. And in germany there a still "screming minorities" who'd preferr a "Fall Weis" style EU integration of Poland) Maybe we are still "rattling the saber".

+ What's with South Amerika/Middle Amerika. With the US getting more isolationistic, they might get more active. Channel Zone anyone?

Michael


P.S: Some nice readings to borrow from

+ Protect&Defend (For China and the regions)
+ War in 2020 (for the Alliances and Influences)
+ Vortex (For defious Ruskies and South Afrika)

 

[womble]

By 2046, China won't be putting women in the Armed Forcers, because they'll be too precious to risk. Don't be surprised to find breeding camps, given their population's propensity to use female infanticide to make sure their only permitted child is a boy.

I think China do have nukes. Not many, but some, and their ICBMs are inferior and few, but they have 'em.

I like the idea of updating the Twilight: 2000 background, but I don't think China will have forgotten the lessons Russia leanrt. However, I'm not sure what Russia has to gain by conquering China, apart from a huge hostile population. I think it's more likely that China will start to covet the resources of Siberia. Have a read of Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon but make the villains less stupid and less blinded by their own importance.

 

[commando]

Actually the book where I got the inspiration for this setting is War at the Top of the World by Eric S. Margolis.(highly recomended)

Basically this book talks about the politics and situation in Afghanistan and South Asia.

China and India are poised to be the new great powers coming into the world. China and India both view themselves to be the rightful masters of Asia, both dislike each other, both are poised to be economic rivals for the world market. Both China and India both feel threatened by its nuclear arsenals. They still have a border dispute in the Himalayas and Tibet and India hates China for its support of Pakistan(and its giving the bomb to Pakistan). China also feels threatened by India since the West has been shifting its investments to India as a counterbalance to a powerful Chinese economy.

Another straw that breaks the camels back is in Burma, which has long been regarded by China and India as its backdoor. Feeling pissed off at India's support of insurgents in Tibet and the numerous border clashes along the disputed border, China signs a military pact with a totering Burmese government. Ethnic insurgencies coupled with the worldwide economic depression has caused a miitary coup which overthrew a civilian government(which took over in the 2020s when SLORC finally fell apart but the civilian government inherited many of the problems of the old government and were not able to deal with them.). This military coup was supported by China. A civil war immidiately starts in Burma which is essentially a united front with various ethnic and political factions uniting against the government in Rangoon but this is financed and supported by India. The rebels take huge swathes of the Country and Rangoon is endangered. China immidieatly rushes large numbers of troops into Burma, defeats and destroys the rebel offensive and virtually occupies the country but again like Ukraine, Chinese trooops control the cities but the rebels control the countryside(which is mostly Jungle and hills) and the rebels are aided by India.

Outraged at this, India already putting a large part of its budget in military expenditures, starts mobilizing in population for war. Massive numbers of troops concentrate on the Burma border and to a lesser extent Tibet and the Himalayas(if war were to happen with China, it would be centered mainly in Burma), the borders with China would be too mountanous but I can see infantry battles happening there too and a stalemate). Pakistan has come out and supported China and has also mobilized troops in the Hindu Kush and in Kashmir.

Q&A:

Why would Burma be important to China?

For one thing, Burma has a lot of resources(Jade, wood, oil, Rubies, gold etc.). It has a strategic position being a backdoor for both China(Yunnan) and India(Calcutta). China also wants to bring down its rival India while there is still a chance to do it.

NATO would still survive with France leaving but would be dead if the U.S. left(which I think it won't).

And in 30 years, I can see the Russians, Indians, and Chinese getting close to the west militarilly. By 2039, cheap smart bombs, UAVs JDAMs and cruise missles will be available in the third world(probably either cheap, Chinese, Isralei, Indian or Russian copies). lasers will also be the next revolution in military weaponry in use with first world coutnries and used to shoot down missles, planes, blind troops, even newer stuff to fry vehicles but they are big and not portable yet anyway, heck lasers might become a battlefield anti missle defense system used to shoot down tactical nukes. More countries are going to have nukes. The western countries also develop better tech than the rest of the world: smart fighter UAVs, laser weaponry, microwave weapons, smart vehicles(tanks), smart missles which can evade or jam anti missle systems or even fighters.

I patterned Russia more to Stalin by way of Hitler. Charismatic but ruthless and somewhat insane(paranoid).

Why would China be best buddies with Russia?

Both countries become sanctioned by the west, they become closer but then again, who said they were really best buddies. Who can really trust the guy who rules in Moscow???? Can you trust Hitler or Stalin?????

While Russian theoretical science is good now all they need is an efficient government to make it work. Look at world war 2.

Actually right now China has nukes(it has the 5th larges stockpile after France)but it does not have the range to hit the U.S. but does already have the range to hit New Delhi. It 30 years it can hit any country in the world. It is already starting a space program.

To be continued...

 

[womble]

Additional details that it would be sensible to address:

* AIDS is a major problem in India that they haven't really woken up to yet. How do they deal with it?
* Africa: what's happening there? Are the nations growing up and settling down or is it still a sinkhole of poverty and bloodshed?
* The Oil States: how're the traditionl sources of petrochem holding out?
* Iraq: are the US still mired there, or has it developed to the potential of a young, vibrant democracy with big friends?
* North Korea: still a pariah state, or reformed?
* Japan: how's it doing with the drying up of petrochem?
* Energy: what alternatives to petrochem start to become economically important?
* Climate: what effects of global warming are becoming apparent?

I can see that a trade-off between Russia and China in alliance might be resources from Russia and manpower from China. It won't be an entirely relaxed relationship, though, because once China has been (effectively) paid in Russian resources, what's to stop it just appropriating Siberia? Russia will want to keep the balance of power at one setting, while China will have different goals.

The space program that China's developing could even be a source of conflict.

 

[commando]

Answers:

1. AIDS is still a major problem worldwide, even by 2039, a cure still has not been discovered but some drugs have been developed to actually limit its growth and contagiousness, something like Herpes right now, it not curable but can be brought under control. By 2039, the AIDS problem in India is bad, it was really bad from 2010-2020 but because of cheaply manufactured drugs, it was brought under control. AIDS has caused some panic and disorder in India but it has not caused the country to collapse.

2. Africa is still a cesspool in 2039. But its not as bad as in 2000s-2010s. South Africa itself has declined while being still the most richest and most powerful country in Africa it is a shadow of its former self. Basically picture africa as a somewhat more stable version of what it is today but somewhat more advanced(though some areas have actually regressed in tech level due to civil war).

3. Oil is still important but not as important as it was decades ago. Many or most cars and now either on electric, pseudo electric(partly gas powered) or Hydrogen(mainly in Europe). Military vehicles though still run on gasoline but can run on other fuel sources.

4. The U.S. is not mired in Iraq, the U.S. withdrew in either the 2010s or late 2000s leaving behind a working(somewhat) government but by 2039, there is no Iraq. The North is under Turkish occupation after the collapse of the Iraqi government in the 2020s due to a civil war between Sunni and Shia factions. and they are fighting a hard guerilla war there against the Kurds. The a large part of the country has been annexed by Iran and what is left is still calling itself Iraq but is under Sunni rule(backed by the Saudi gulf states). They are still probably still killing each other down there.

Now How can the U.S. stand for this? The depression of the 2020s put paid to U.S. military interventionism and the U.S. became somewhat isolationist focused more on solving its problems than solving others peoples.

North Korea? The depression of the 2020s did not really badly affect the country compared to South Korea since it is not really tide to the global economic system what happened was that the shipment of food and oil from china has largely become a trickle since china increased their costs. This has caused more famine in NK and some revolts in the countryside which were brutal suppressed by the army. Kim Jong Il is killed in a military coup and the military takes over. In 2039, North Korea is virtually a Chinese puppet, the new military government opened the country up to South Korean and Chinese investments and its economy is on the reform ala China in the 90s. Both sides have talked about unification but nothing came about it since it is projected at this current stage, it will cost about a few trillion dollars to reunify the two koreas but if North Korea has become economically prosperous then unification is possible. U.S. forces have largely withdrawn from Korea and Japan btw in the 2020s.

Japan is very innovative and by 2039 is now mainly using electric or hydrogen fuel for their cars and vehicles. It is still allied with the U.S. as a counterpoint against China(North Korea is not as feared as it once had been) but China and Russia has become potential threats(especially after the signing of the pact). It is however somewhat rearming but has stayed neutral in Asian or world geopolitics.

Global warming effects. Weather has become strange, in many parts of the world, it has become hotter, deserts are growing. flooding has devastated many communities. The worse one is the return of the dustbowl in the midwest in the 2020s.

to be contined...

 

[Krakow]

Commando: A simply outstanding political scenario. Global warming, if it continues, will prove to be an interesting disruption with political ramifications. However, I'd like to see more of the effects of technological change, apart from military hardware and fuel.

Unless the pace of technological change over the next 40 years is reduced substantially, there will surely be some wild cards thrown into the mix.

Looking at 40 years ago is instructive. Example: 40 years ago (1964/5), what were the developments waiting in the wings?

Computers were in their infancy, with the ramifications of millions of linked personal computers (The Internet) unimagined, except in science fiction. Also in the realm of science fiction was a world bathed in microprocessors, to be found in the most mundane of consumer goods.

Bombers were king, and ICBMs were a promising new development. Satellites were also showing promise as a communication enabler, though hand-held satellite telephones and Global Positioning Systems again science fiction toys.

Cutting edge medical technology was largely confined to the development of new vaccines and refined operating procedures, with many of today's miracle devices dependent on microprocessors still waiting to be discovered.

By 2040, what will be the advances in genetics, metallurgy, plastics, microprocessors, robotics, Artificial Intelligence, energy production... Fusion? Hydrogen fuels? battery technology? (I suspect the dominant personal energy source 40 years from now won't be gasoline...) If the past 40 years is any indication, miniaturization is a sure bet.

Politically, the world of 1964/5 was bipolar (Pro-US, Pro-USSR, or neutrals playing off both sides). While it certainly didn't feel like it at the time -- with the constant threat of nuclear destruction -- it was a fairly stable, predictable political balance. The (original) canon Twilight: 2000 background reflected that status quo. Today's world is considerably different: A single superpower in steady decline by multiple measures (the most important being economic -- recent Chinese & German economic statistics in relation to the USA are startling!). Once minor players are rushing in to fill power vacuums. The United Nations & NATO struggle to define their roles in the turn-of-the century political world. NPOs (Non-Political Organizations, a curious term since many are quite political) such as multi-national corporations, activist groups/organizations, and criminal/terrorist entities wield power unthinkable 40 years ago.

Result: An orderly political world increasingly abraded by chaotic elements. Your political background represents this well. Just don't forget that nation-states won't be the only players in the world of 2040.

Maybe somebody already pointed this out... I might have missed this in the thread, but by 2040, whatever nations "hold the high ground" -- Orbit -- will be the pre-eminent military powers. NEO will be militarized, 1960's wishful thinking notwithstanding. Orbital defense platforms, in the development stages from the Eighties through now, will be fully developed by 2040. There will be a half-dozen or more countries effectively immune to most current nuclear delivery systems: Bombers, ICBMs, and even cruise missiles would be dangerously vulnerable to overhead attacks. Overhead surveillance will be constant, redundant, and thorough. Orbital lasers and rapid-firing mass drivers would make short work of any massed military formation, whether ground, sea, or air. Nuclear/non-nuclear attacks against these primary countries would have to be sneak attacks using stealth, civilian cover, or submarines. Just as the battleship was eclipsed by the aircraft carrier, orbital weaponry will trump many existing military technologies. Clever countries will develop anti-orbital weaponry technologies, such as hunter/killer sats, ground-based defenses, etc. The flip side of this development will be counter-counter-measures to protect orbital assets. Since armoring/hardening of satellites could well be too expensive, this will probably take the form of stealth technology and safety of numbers -- put up too many to kill.

Recent third party developments in the new space race -- civilian orbital transport development here in the US, Brazil launching its first rocket, China putting its man in orbit -- demonstrate where developments will lead to 40 years from now. Near Earth Orbit will be a crowded, busy place. By 2040, whoever doesn't have an armed presence in the "high ground" will be a military non-entity.

I love this thread... Keep working on it! ;>)