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Twilight 2000 4E nuclear targets map

Diveguy said:
Your conclusion that it would not be spared sir.
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Diveguy said:
I'm less discussing the strategic facilities and more the "let's not make the whole straits a high-rad zone if we don't need to" idea.
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I frankly don't believe such a military base will be left unnuked, seeing other targets...

How long will it be a high-rad zone? and this will hardly affect the Russian fleet. As Condotiere said, it was not powerful in the Mediterranean, and its submarines would not be so affected...
 
Grav_Moped said:
At the least, they'd have hit the McDonnel Douglas facilities at LGB airport! (Later Boeing, since mostly demolished and replaced by office parks and retail. Relativity Space was using one of the last remaining hangars.)

And yes, the USN had a presence at LA/Long Beach in the 80s.
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Yes, as a kid we used to go down and watch the ships going in and out. Long Beach and the port are very different today then back in the 70's for sure. :)
 
McPerth said:
I frankly don't believe such a military base will be left unnuked, seeing other targets...

How long will it be a high-rad zone? and this will hardly affect the Russian fleet. As Condotiere said, it was not powerful in the Mediterranean, and its submarines would not be so affected...
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And those are fair counterpoints. Just offering my food for thought - which is part of the fun exercise of revisiting such game/timeframes and doing the "what if?" options.
 
My thoughts on the 1st Edition target map can be found here.
Timerover51

Thread 'Thoughts on Twilight 2000'

I have been spending some time looking again at Twilight 2000, including buying three of the online modules at DriveThru: Gateway to the Spanish Main, Korean Peninsula Sourcebook, and the East African Sourcebook. I bought the module Gateway to the Spanish Main when it came out and then bought Twilight 2000 to see how it worked. I am a sucker for ships, including sailing ships. (See my Horatio Hornblower collection along with others.)

In looking at some of the other modules, I keep thinking that there was some wishful thinking when it came to nuclear weapon targets, primarily New London...
 
This map is pure K'Kree dung.

It is critical infrastructure and military sites that were the targets in the 80's.

I have an uncle who was a missile silo commander in Minot ND, back in the 80's. He said there are many other military/sensitive sites in and around NY State, over half of it would be directly glassed. Albany, Troy and Schenectady each had a 100 megaton bomb aimed at them. The Watervliet Arsenal had one just for itself. The bunker busters of Desert Storm, many of the cannons for the navy, t and the armor and cannon for M1 Abrams tanks are made there. I just remembered, Grumman still had a factory down in Bethpage, Long Island back then.

Now for reference, I live roughly 10 miles north of Albany NY, along side the Hudson River. On the other side is Troy and Schenectady is about 16 miles west of me. The Watervliet Arsenal is less than ten minutes from me. GE has an R&D facility in Schenectady with Knolls Atomic Power Labs near by it. Over in Troy is Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute has a reactor. Heck, the old Kodak facility in Rochester had a nuc plant too.


It wasn't going to look like Damnation Alley's version of Albany NY theat is for sure (the scene at the end was filmed up in the Saratoga area, btw).


MAD, no one gets out alive.
 
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Deldarius said:
This map is pure K'Kree dung.

It is critical infrastructure and military sites that were the targets in the 80's.

I have an uncle who was a missile silo commander in Minot ND, back in the 80's. He said there are many other military/sensitive sites in and around NY State, over half of it would be directly glassed. Albany, Troy and Schenectady each had a 100 megaton bomb aimed at them. The Watervliet Arsenal had one just for itself. The bunker busters of Desert Storm, many of the cannons for the navy, t and the armor and cannon for M1 Abrams tanks are made there. I just remembered, Grumman still had a factory down in Bethpage, Long Island back then.
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During a period of bizzarity in Russia, much of the Kremlin's archive was available online, including (briefly) the targeting lists. A lot of expected sites were missed. A number of WTF sites were listed.

Whittier, AK, got targeted. Hasn't been a military site since 1953 or so. Not a terror target, either; too small. But it was still targeted by the Kremlin in the 90's.

The thing is, targeting require that the targeteer believes that there's a valuable target there. Not all extant sites worthy of targeting will be believed worthy. Not all sites thought worthy are worthy.
 
Puget Sound should be glassed in any Cold War timeline. Between Bangor, Whidbey Island, Bremerton, Fort Lewis, McChord, Boeing plants, and the cargo facilities, there's targets to go around for a number of bombs.
 
The Chilling Soviet Plan to Crush the West in Seven Days...

A secret Cold War strategy planned nuclear devastation across Europe in just a week. Could the Soviets have won World War III? Or would it have doomed us all? Let’s find out.




Nuclear proliferation seems likely.
 
More thoughts: did you see China and the oil producing regions in middle east have not ben targeted, according the map?

Again, does anyone believe this to be credible?
 
McPerth said:
More thoughts: did you see China and the oil producing regions in middle east have not ben targeted, according the map?

Again, does anyone believe this to be credible?
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Not much of a need really.
Most of China and the middle east would starve to death, the survivors would be put to work working the oil for one last chance of survival.

Without oil we slide a lot farther down the tech level tree.
 
Looking over the target list for Canada is weird. I was in the RCAF in 1989, so I remember the Cold War mentality well.

Several key Canadian Forces bases are missing off the list (Cold Lake and Bagotville are major fighter bases then and now). Another RCAF base critical for hunting submarines, Greenwood (NS) is not listed. Key army bases at Gagetown (NB), Valcartier (QC), Petawawa (ON), Shilo (MB), Suffield and Wainwright (AB) were not targeted.

However, some targets that perplex me are Kamsack (SK), a town of less than 2000 people and Bowden (AB), population 1200. I also find it weird that Prince George, BC, a logging town (though with highway and railroad links) is targeted.

Point Tupper coal power plant in Nova Scotia is targeted, but the large nuclear reactor complexes at Gentilly (QC), and the Bruce Peninsula (ON) were untouched. (Note: I am not counting Pickering Nuclear plant because it is close to Toronto (a target) or Point Lepreau because it is close to St John (NB, also a target)).

An odd list...
 
If you just want to maximize the area of a country you want to generally f--- up in a nuclear war, target the reactor sites. This spreads massive highly radioactive 'stuff' downwind for hundreds of miles. You can turn most of Europe into a radioactive graveyard that makes Chernobyl look like a joke doing that alone.
 
Enoki said:
If you just want to maximize the area of a country you want to generally f--- up in a nuclear war, target the reactor sites. This spreads massive highly radioactive 'stuff' downwind for hundreds of miles. You can turn most of Europe into a radioactive graveyard that makes Chernobyl look like a joke doing that alone.
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In no way disputing this point - but, it comes more into the overall question of "why" on the strike and target list?

Are you seeking to decapitate the enemy command and offensive/defensive capability surgically?
Are you aiming for a massive impact on the above plus infrastructure?
Or, as this post posits, are you going scorched earth?

Each might have their reasons - but any game building off such should have in mind the what and why, rather than just randomly lobbing expensive warheads...
 
Diveguy said:
In no way disputing this point - but, it comes more into the overall question of "why" on the strike and target list?

Are you seeking to decapitate the enemy command and offensive/defensive capability surgically?
Are you aiming for a massive impact on the above plus infrastructure?
Or, as this post posits, are you going scorched earth?

Each might have their reasons - but any game building off such should have in mind the what and why, rather than just randomly lobbing expensive warheads...
Click to expand...
It comes from one of the best public studies done on a general nuclear war.

9780394720425-uk-300.jpg


Nuking nuclear plants does two things:

1. It cripples the target nation's energy production
2. It creates huge no-go zones and potentially lots of civilian casualties overwhelming medical services. The no-go zones could be used as barriers to military operations by the nation creating them. The enemy is not able to maneuver freely.

In terms of Traveller, doing that to a planet could render much of it uninhabitable for a long time. That might be a desired outcome.
 
The Cheyenne Mountain Complex, located near Colorado Springs, is a premier Cold War-era nuclear bunker designed with 15 buildings mounted on over 1,300 massive steel springs to absorb shockwaves from a 30-megaton blast. Buried 2,000 feet under granite, this facility serves as a resilient, self-sufficient backup command center, utilizing shock-isolation to protect personnel and sensitive equipment.

Key Features of the Cheyenne Mountain Spring System

Shock Mitigation: The 15 steel and reinforced concrete buildings are mounted on massive coiled springs (some measuring 18 inches) to isolate them from the intense ground motion of a nuclear explosion.

Design Capacity: The structure is engineered to allow internal buildings to move up to a foot in any direction without compromising structural integrity.

Blast Resistance: Beyond the springs, the complex is protected by 23-to-25-ton blast doors designed to seal in seconds.

Function: It is designed to withstand a 30-megaton blast and remains operational, providing a "city under stone" with its own power, water, and air filtration.

Other Examples of Specialized Bunkers

Greenbrier Bunker (Project Greek Island): A top-secret, Cold War-era bunker designed for the U.S. Congress, hidden beneath a hotel, which, while not primarily noted for spring-mounted, was designed for long-term survival.

Sonnenberg Bunker: A Swiss facility designed for 20,000 people with specialized air filtration for nuclear, biological, and chemical threats.

The Cheyenne Mountain Complex continues to operate as a critical, hardened, and secure location for NORAD and other agencies.




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