Twilight 2000 boxed set, version 2.2

[Supplement Four]

A month or two ago, I stopped in at my local used book store to browse. It's an activity that I used to enjoy--the treasure hunt of the endeavor. Well, I got lucky and found some gold.

I picked up a complete boxed set of version 2.2 of the Twilight 2000 game for $23.99.

I've never played the game before, though I've been interested in it over the years. Today, I started to read through the rulebook. I see that version 2.2 was created to make the game compatible with TNE.

TNE is a game that I used to hate, but I've softened on it over the years. I still wouldn't care for it as the main background for Traveller, but as an alternative to the classic Traveller background, it's a good one.

The rules have always been interesting to me. I like the depth and detail, but I'm not sure I like the crunch. I've never looked at them very closely, but I've planned to for years.

I guess now, I will.

 

[aramis]

The only major differences between 2.0 and 2.2 can be sumarized as...

	2.0	2.2
Die	1d10	1d20
base TN	≤Skill	≤(Stat+Skill)
Unskilled	1d10≤Att grants temp skill 1	increase difficulty one step
Task Levels	3: ×2/×1/×½	5: ×4/×2/×1/×½/×¼
Autofire

[tc=2]don't have the books to check handy[/tc]

It does not have the (later introduced) TNE declining skills per term.

Before 2.2 was released, the Ref's screen carried the task system changes (and the weapon specialization rules, which depend upon them) TNE was announced somewhat later than the Ref's Screen.

 

[Kilgs]

Boxed set for 2.2? I thought it was just released in book format...

While it is a form similar to TNE, you take out all the space, construction, and so on... it's a very simple and fun game with good rules. TNE (or high tech) just complicated it the nth.

 

[Supplement Four]

Boxed set for 2.2? I thought it was just released in book format....

Evidently, there was. What I have is a standard box with a gold star sticker advertising the 2.2 version on the cover.

 

[aramis]

Evidently, there was. What I have is a standard box with a gold star sticker advertising the 2.2 version on the cover.

Which is also how I got mine...
My FLGS at the time didn't get the 2.2 as a book only... so I've 4 copies of the poland map. (1.0, 2.0, 2.2, and one from a friend's discards)

 

[Timerover51]

Hmm, I will have to dig out my first edition then and take another look at it.

 

[Putraack]

2.0 and 2.2 autofire is rolling for a lot of bursts, which number is derived by calculating the Recoil of the weapon, number of bursts fired, and shooter's Strength. Suffice to say you roll a lot of dice.

in 2.0, you roll a d6 for each potential hit, and 6s hit.
In 2.2, you roll a lot of d20, at 1/4 (or was it 1/8?) of (Str+Stat).

The highest I've seen was a character firing an M249 (RoF 10) with nearly-maxxed-out skill and Str. Forty-two d20 rolled through the dice tower. We had that many dice available, but we couldn't fit them through the tower in one throw.

And you keep half of the misses, to roll at any other targets that move through an area 4m on either side of the target(s), the length of the range bracket, for the rest of the phase.

Shotguns were just as scary, Automatic shotguns were even scarier.

 

[aramis]

Hmm, I will have to dig out my first edition then and take another look at it.

Just remember, mechanically, 1E and 2E are quite far apart, while 2E & 2.2 are pretty close.

 

[jcrocker]

Hope that you have fun with it!

I had an article for T2K accepted for Challenge magazine, back in the day, statting out a DC-3. Pity it folded before they could print it.

 

[Supplement Four]

Hope that you have fun with it!

I had an article for T2K accepted for Challenge magazine, back in the day, statting out a DC-3. Pity it folded before they could print it.

If you still have it, I wouldn't mind adding it to the collection!

 

[jcrocker]

PM'd. Hope it comes in handy!

 

[Kilgs]

Okay... what is a dice tower?

Back on topic... v1.0 was hard to grok as I was like 15. But I love v2.2. I just wish stats didn't weigh more than skills. Or that skills were higher (which I've always increased).

If you really want to have crazy fun with T2K v.2.2, check out pmulcahy's website. Do a search on "pmulcahy" and "Twilight 2000".

(can't link as blocked at work)

 

[jcrocker]

Link to a dice tower article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_tower

Lots of clattering involved, for the ones I've seen.

 

[Putraack]

My dice tower in this case was corrugated cardboard, so it wasn't too noisy. Or, one could say it sounded like an autofire burst!

I also made one out of Lego. I've seen Youtubes of powered dicetowers- push the button, and it clatters away!

 

[DiabolicDonut]

Sorry about this guys, but I'm trying to get my head around the penetration and armor in Twilight 2000 2.2 right now and the rules state that you

"Multiply the armor protection by the weapon's penetration value and subtract the result from the weapon's damage value.".

Just to be clear, this means that higher penetration values equal lower damage correct?
Armor Protection of (1) x Penetration value of (2) = 2 lost dice
Armor Protection of (2) x Penetration value of (1) = 2 lost dice
Armor Protection of (2) x Penetration value of (2) = 4 lost dice
Armor Protection of (1) x Penetration value of (1) = 1 lost die

This sounds counter intuitive to me. Am I missing something? and in the book the .357 magnum has a penetration of 1 - Nil, and the .44 magnum has a penetration of 2 - Nil. The .44 magnum should have more penetration than a .357 magnum and so I'm assuming that larger penetration values should be better not worse.

 

[whartung]

This is compensated by the fact that the .44 starts with 3 dice of damage vs 2. The basic point being here is that armor slows them both down similarly. It also reflects how most modern ballistic armors are "equally" effective against .30 and .40 caliber pistols. As with anything firearms, there's a zillion factors to consider. They could have gone 3 damage, 1-nil, but that would have made the .44 significantly more powerful and competitive with middle weight rifles (.44 is powerful, but it's not a high powered rifle).

You're simply seeing the granularity (or lack of) in the combat system, and the .44 doesn't really have a Goldilocks zone.

So, carry it for the 3d again unarmored targets. Not its engine block penetrating power.

 

[Rupert]

Sorry about this guys, but I'm trying to get my head around the penetration and armor in Twilight 2000 2.2 right now and the rules state that you

"Multiply the armor protection by the weapon's penetration value and subtract the result from the weapon's damage value.".

Just to be clear, this means that higher penetration values equal lower damage correct?
Armor Protection of (1) x Penetration value of (2) = 2 lost dice
Armor Protection of (2) x Penetration value of (1) = 2 lost dice
Armor Protection of (2) x Penetration value of (2) = 4 lost dice
Armor Protection of (1) x Penetration value of (1) = 1 lost die

This sounds counter intuitive to me. Am I missing something? and in the book the .357 magnum has a penetration of 1 - Nil, and the .44 magnum has a penetration of 2 - Nil. The .44 magnum should have more penetration than a .357 magnum and so I'm assuming that larger penetration values should be better not worse.

No, your maths is correct. The end result is that the .44 has much the same penetration as the .357 - both penetrate AV1 but not AV2.

Note that blunt trauma of one point per die stopped applies, so the .357 will do 1d+1 damage, whilst the .44 will do 1d+2.

 

[aramis]

Okay... what is a dice tower?

Back on topic... v1.0 was hard to grok as I was like 15. But I love v2.2. I just wish stats didn't weigh more than skills. Or that skills were higher (which I've always increased).

Well, the fix for atts and skills is to use 2.0.

THe char gen is the same. I have found that 2.0 was more fun for me than 2.2, specifically because skill links limited maximum skill (costs double above the linked attribute) but have no task impact except for unskilled.
The 2.0 difficulty multiplers work fine on 2.0.
I've got loads of d10's, so the 2.2 mode but using d10 and no stat works fine for me.

I don't have enough autofire experience to be able to judge the realism...

I'll note as well - T2K4 is a totally different engine... but maintains the spirit of T2K 2 while making some updates to the timeline, a much more accurate inventory of equipment (Alt Hist has that advantage, y'know?). One of the findable items on the random search table is a copy of T2K...

 

[Rupert]

I'll note as well - T2K4 is a totally different engine... but maintains the spirit of T2K 2 while making some updates to the timeline, a much more accurate inventory of equipment (Alt Hist has that advantage, y'know?). One of the findable items on the random search table is a copy of T2K...

I'm not particularly enthused with T2K4's weapon damage rules. The range is too small, so you get oddities.