Twilight 2000 4E nuclear targets map

[McPerth]

In no way disputing this point - but, it comes more into the overall question of "why" on the strike and target list?

Are you seeking to decapitate the enemy command and offensive/defensive capability surgically?
Are you aiming for a massive impact on the above plus infrastructure?
Or, as this post posits, are you going scorched earth?

And that is one of the things that surprised me the most. As I said in the OP:

Frankly, I find it quite wrong and breaking with 1E and 2E (the ones I knew), where most nuclear strikes were to military significant targets…

Of course, this includes government centers too, and may include power production, but probably not the nuclear plants, just to avoid what Enoki says:

If you just want to maximize the area of a country you want to generally f--- up in a nuclear war, target the reactor sites. This spreads massive highly radioactive 'stuff' downwind for hundreds of miles. You can turn most of Europe into a radioactive graveyard that makes Chernobyl look like a joke doing that alone.

This is a good tactic for a nuclear doomsday, but this was (quite unuccessfully) tried to avoid in T2K background, where each strike was inteded for a specific (in most cases military significant) target, not to fully destroy the countries.

 

[Dragoner]

Reality of a full launch (Soviets didn't have measured response doctrine) Germany is struck by 30,000 warheads so not much game there, probably go with the game scenario.

 

[bookwyrm]

Hey cool, I'm in an infrastructure casualty!

As a military brat, and now a civilian, my whole life has been lived in a nuclear strike zone of one sort or another.

I'm reminded of a poster I saw while in the Boy Scouts. In the event of a nuclear war, pull down your pants, sit down, bend over, kiss your 'booty' goodbye. This was a poster on a military base, so I changed the word originally used to booty. Think slang used for donkey.

Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank. A small town in Florida after a nuclear exchange between the U.S. & U.S.S.R. Set in the 1960's. One of my favorite reads.

 

[Diveguy]

And that is one of the things that surprised me the most. As I said in the OP:



Of course, this includes government centers too, and may include power production, but probably not the nuclear plants, just to avoid what Enoki says:



This is a good tactic for a nuclear doomsday, but this was (quite unuccessfully) tried to avoid in T2K background, where each strike was inteded for a specific (in most cases military significant) target, not to fully destroy the countries.

Agreed - just looking at it from some of the ways the conversation has meandered throughout the posts.

Which leads to the separate posit of - how would this targeting tale change if we shifted to 2026 world and Russia or China as the adversary, rather than the T2K Warsaw Pact/NATO model? Would be an interesting write-up for someone invested in it...

 

[aramis]

Reality of a full launch (Soviets didn't have measured response doctrine) Germany is struck by 30,000 warheads so not much game there, probably go with the game scenario.

They also didn't have rapidly programmable missile targeting; essentially, it was manual ROM replacement, to prevent local sabotage.
So wherever was targeted at time of deployment was what was targeted at time of launch, regardless of who triggered the launch sequences.

And some targeting choices were patently absurd... like Ft Wainwright for a mere few MT, while Eielson, a mere 20 miles away, was not, despite having been (off and on) sporting a Bomber Group, being a TDY location for bombers... Meanwhile, Anchorage's Elmendorf and Fort Rich (and north anchorage) were jointly targeted with, IIRC, a mere 20 MT... not enough to wipe out both bases and Anchorage, but just enough to destroy Elmendorf Field, Bryant Field (on Ft Rich), and the heliport at Elmendorf Military Hospital (shared Army/AF since construction). Essentially, the targeting was just a bit off of the Hospital, which sits twixt the bases...

The reality was targeting of strat nukes was never based upon current real threat for the Soviets. Still isn't for the Russians, tho' now it's more readily changed. It was based upon what they knew, and that had (and has) huge gaps.
And why Bombers were and still are part of the force profile for nuclear warfare: They're inherently able to be retargeted.

Note also: T2K presumes mostly tactical nukes, not strat nukes, in Europe. The Kreml could have simply not ordered launches towards a european theater, while launching the ones targeted on the US, since the HQ at the Kreml knew what was targeted where.

 

[Dragoner]

They also didn't have rapidly programmable missile targeting; essentially, it was manual ROM replacement, to prevent local sabotage.
So wherever was targeted at time of deployment was what was targeted at time of launch, regardless of who triggered the launch sequences.

And some targeting choices were patently absurd... like Ft Wainwright for a mere few MT, while Eielson, a mere 20 miles away, was not, despite having been (off and on) sporting a Bomber Group, being a TDY location for bombers... Meanwhile, Anchorage's Elmendorf and Fort Rich (and north anchorage) were jointly targeted with, IIRC, a mere 20 MT... not enough to wipe out both bases and Anchorage, but just enough to destroy Elmendorf Field, Bryant Field (on Ft Rich), and the heliport at Elmendorf Military Hospital (shared Army/AF since construction). Essentially, the targeting was just a bit off of the Hospital, which sits twixt the bases...

The reality was targeting of strat nukes was never based upon current real threat for the Soviets. Still isn't for the Russians, tho' now it's more readily changed. It was based upon what they knew, and that had (and has) huge gaps.
And why Bombers were and still are part of the force profile for nuclear warfare: They're inherently able to be retargeted.

Note also: T2K presumes mostly tactical nukes, not strat nukes, in Europe. The Kreml could have simply not ordered launches towards a european theater, while launching the ones targeted on the US, since the HQ at the Kreml knew what was targeted where.

As what I have seen and heard, 90% of their nukes would hit western Europe and the US eastern seaboard; overburden targets to make sure they were destroyed. Kinda doubt the Soviet Army would do the seven days to the Rhine attack, probably withdraw back into the USSR, whatever would be left of anything. I have seen a lot of western maps of what would be hit, which some is propaganda imo.

T2K has a contrived scenario of what would happen (I mean Italy invades Germany?), though it still occupies the space of "serious" Post-apocalypse vs gonzo Gamma World.

 

[Enoki]

I saw this one the other day:

View attachment 5975

I can't figure out why many of the strikes in the SW US are where they are. What's the supposed target(s)? For example, take Arizona where I live. Outside of Phoenix and Tucson, there really isn't much to nuke in the rest of the state. The smaller hits make no sense.

These include:

One in the far SE corner of the state, I'd assume to be Douglas. There's nothing there to take out.
The one on the Arizona - N. Mexico border mid-state appears aimed at the Morenci mine complex there. Again, a terrible target as there really is nothing to nuke. What can you do to a big hole in the ground?
In Northern Arizona it looks like they targeted Flagstaff--a nothing of a target, Glen Canyon dam and the Navajo power generating station. The dam makes little sense, and the generating station is shut down and decommissioned for the most part.
The one in the far SW corner of the state seems aimed at Yuma proving grounds. Again, there's virtually nothing there to take out. It's mostly just a big land area where the military tests equipment in desert conditions.

The map makes little sense.