Traveller Map Raw Sector Data different

[ken at sunrise]

I just noticed that the Raw Sector Data does not always match the Data Sheet for the world. Often the 'Other Worlds' number is way off.

Which would be the correct one?

 

[inexorabletash]

Example, please?

Note that the raw data Worlds column will be main world + stars + giants + belts + other.

In actuality, the "other worlds" count is derived from the above equation: other = worlds - main world - stars - giants - belts.

 

[ken at sunrise]

Example, please?

Note that the raw data Worlds column will be main world + stars + giants + belts + other.

In actuality, the "other worlds" count is derived from the above equation: other = worlds - main world - stars - giants - belts.

Khouth World Data Sheet shows 9 Other Worlds
Raw Sector Data shows 13. So thirteen is a total?

9 Worlds + Main World + 1 Star + 0 Giants + 2 Belts = 13???

Is that correct?

 

[inexorabletash]

Your math looks right to me. I'll add a total to the data sheet.

FYI my service provider - discountasp.net - appears to be having an outage at the moment. The site has been down for the last hour.

 

[inexorabletash]

It's back.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=467018&postcount=26 may prove useful.

 

[ken at sunrise]

Your math looks right to me. I'll add a total to the data sheet.

FYI my service provider - discountasp.net - appears to be having an outage at the moment. The site has been down for the last hour.

I thought there was an error but... I didn't understand how it was calculated. Oops...

So what data sheet are you referring to?

 

[ken at sunrise]

Example, please?

Note that the raw data Worlds column will be main world + stars + giants + belts + other.

In actuality, the "other worlds" count is derived from the above equation: other = worlds - main world - stars - giants - belts.

Page 437 of T5 says:
Total Worlds In System= + Mainworld + Gas Giants + Belts + 2D; And the example of 430 is the same thing. Neither add the stars. Is that an error or errata?

 

[Garnfellow]

I'm glad someone else asked this question about whether stars should be included in the world count. I had noticed the discrepancy myself.

For that matter, I find the T5 use of the term "worlds" here to be more than a little confusing. It seems like the term has historically meant a potentially habitable object, whether an asteroid belt, planetoid, planet, or moon -- specifically excluding stars and gas giants.

Since the subject has been broached, is the World number just objects orbiting the primary? Does it include planets orbiting a far companion? Moons orbiting planets?

 

[robject]

"World" is simply extended to include dwarf planets and entire planetoid belts (but not individual small solar system bodies). Gas giants are included as well, but I always thought they were assumed to be worlds, but I may be wrong...

 

[inexorabletash]

I was just quoting the other thread. Apparently the T5 book is inconsistent?

If prefer if stars are not included in the count.

Dwarf planets make it tricky, as they are by definition in "belts" (Ceres: main belt; Pluto, Makemake, Haumea: Kuiper belt; Eris: scattered disc). Also, it's predicted that our system has *hundreds* lurking out there, which kinda makes including them in the world count pointlessly noisy.

If Traveller is going to admit the existence of dwarf planets, it needs to admit that system will usually have many, and systems are "messy"

 

[inexorabletash]

Okay, I've changed TM to not assume stars are part of world counts. I'll post elsewhere about the rationale.

 

[ken at sunrise]

Okay, I've changed TM to not assume stars are part of world counts. I'll post elsewhere about the rationale.

HUH???

The Khouth World Data Sheet used to show 9 Other Worlds.
9 "Other" Worlds + Main World

The Raw Sector Data still shows 13. So thirteen is a total?
9 "Other" Worlds + Main World + 1 Star + 0 Giants + 2 Belts = 13?

Now the Khouth World Data Sheet shows 10 "Other" Worlds???
Where did 10 come from? Main plus Other?

Are all the World Data Sheets I've printed now wrong?

 

[inexorabletash]

Please try to apply critical thinking skills before asking questions. I'll explain more slowly:

"Other" is a derived value. Previously it was calculated as:

other = worlds - main world - stars - giants - belts.

Per the above note, this has changed to:

other = worlds - main world - giants - belts

 

[ken at sunrise]

Please try to apply critical thinking skills before asking questions. I'll explain more slowly:

"Other" is a derived value. Previously it was calculated as:



Per the above note, this has changed to:

other = worlds - main world - giants - belts

I'm sorry I don't understand the need for sarcasm? I thought I "thought" this though.

The Raw Data still shows Worlds = 13. If I subtract 1 for the star wouldn't that equal 12 not 10.
So either the Data Sheet is in error or the Raw Data is in error.

Where is my mistake?

 

[Garnfellow]

10 Worlds + Main World + 0 Giants + 2 Belts = 13

 

[ken at sunrise]

10 Worlds + Main World + 0 Giants + 2 Belts = 13

Doh! Thanks, for some reason I wasn't connecting the dots.

Yep, I think I need to reprint the World Data Sheets..

Thank you again,

 

[Garnfellow]

So the "Worlds" number only counts things that orbit the primary (excluding companions), and not things that orbit gas giants or companion stars?

I ask in part because I am interested in "double systems," multiple stars in one hex potentially supporting interesting secondary worlds.

It's not inconceivable to have a double system, say, with a secondary world that is still more important than any other world in the sector after the mainworld.

 

[ken at sunrise]

So the "Worlds" number only counts things that orbit the primary (excluding companions), and not things that orbit gas giants or companion stars?

I ask in part because I am interested in "double systems," multiple stars in one hex potentially supporting interesting secondary worlds.

It's not inconceivable to have a double system, say, with a secondary world that is still more important than any other world in the sector after the mainworld.

I found this; looks like a great resource.
http://travellermap.com/doc/secondsurvey

It says:

The number of "worlds" in the system. This is given as a decimal integer, and will always be at least 1 (the main world) plus the number of planetoid belts (see PBG) plus the number of gas giants (see PBG) but will include other planets orbiting the stars and moons orbiting the gas giants in the system.

I don't see that it's been updated so it is still most likely accurate.

 

[Drakon]

My understanding is that if you have multiple stars in the system, 1) the stars are NOT included in the world number, and 2) the world number includes all "major objects" in the entire system, whether it orbits the primary star or the secondary.

It will not include every stray pebble or boulder, or moon, as it will be insignificant for Imperial purposes.

There is tons of junk in a solar system. A solar system is a huge canvas. Even a single planet is a huge canvas to play on and flesh out. But you may find you need a 'secret asteroid base' or 'unusual comet'. It is no problem to gen those up without damaging canon or ruining your solar system worldbuilding.

 

[ken at sunrise]

And that matches the link from the Traveller Map above. inexorabletash is correct that T5 would be inconsistent.

I like they way it (The Traveller Map) is fixed and the World Data Sheets (now that I understand the calc) matches the Raw Data.

Kudos to whoever is doing the web page for the map! inexorabletash?

I posted elsewhere that I think the web based map (with the wiki) would make a great sellable resource. The whole thing on a jump drive. Awesome.