Traveller 2.0

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

I know the grognards are going to want to burn me at a stake over this, fine. But has anyone ever thought of basically remaking the whole traveller universe and calling it "Traveller 2.0?"

I'm serious, when something becomes a legend and lasts a long time, it occasionally needs an update. Look at superman, batman, etc. Originally they started out in the 30's, but after a while the comic companies had to redo them to make their origins more modern, or else have a 90+ year old caped crusader....

Every couple decades the classic superheroes have to get an update, a new beginning, whatever you want to call it.

Well, the big T has been around for a long time, and maybe it's due for an update, a new beginning.

I'd like to keep the mainstream traveller elements, so don't have too big a ciniption. I'd keep the ancients (Slightly changed background, bot basically the same idea), jump drive, the same races like the vargr, aslan, k'kree and hivers, same politics but radically update the tech to include cybernetics, nanotech, bio engineering, etc.

Maybe a whole fresh start to the traveller universe and a tech update (No more computers 10,000 years from now that would have their transistors stomped out by the one on my desk, for example) would give people a chance to get in on the ground floor and attract some fresh blood.

Also, I could see adding things like genetic engineering, AI, cybernetics and such leading to an even deeper and more complex political situation, with the various factions (Old humanity, genies, borgs, AI amalgams, etc) vying for survival and power.

Just image the same level of complexity and consistency that has been applied to traveller up to now applied to a universe like that.

I know people are juust exploding in horror and outrage over the idea of a whole new traveller, not a new game in the same timeline a'la IW, but after the initial outrage I think it might be interesting. Think of it as traveller, starting out from the transhuman space setting.

In fact, the idea of adding a lot from THS into a traveller setting could dovetail nicely with the current traveller setting. Suppose one of the reasons the terrans pounded the zhodani imperium so easily was because they has genetically and cybernetically augmented forces, whereas thanks to the vilani's 'traditional' conservatism and lack of medical advancement they never develop[ed much of either, and kept they subjects from doing so? That there might help explain the first imperium's utter helplessness against the upstart terrans.

I admit the current explanation works, but more could be added to it in a tech update.

 

[Border Reiver]

Idea's great and is perhaps where T5 should be going....what is needed is a real paradigm shift. But thenthe beauty of Traveller is that it was never meant to be bound by canon...if you want nanotech put it in. It is YOUR Traveller universe.

 

[Spud]

Sounds good to me, too. I _am_ pretty tired of bad future tech. Gengineering, nanotech, DNA, righteous computers, hey, let's do it. Maybe more modular, so we aren't caught flatfooted by the next big thing.

 

[daltoncalford]

Hey Roger,

That is what our playgroup is doing.

Take a look at the T5 section of these boards in the 'Task System Testimonial' thread.

If you read that, and are interested in what else is happening, I have spent alot of time re-doing all the systems. I am currently on version 3 of my 3d space layout (version one was posted in the lone-star section). I have standardized hulls with rules for starship assembly as well as a 65% completed FF&S (the formula's are there, along with the spreadsheets, but, documentation is lousy).

The entire history has been redone, and it is based around the gliese star data.

Everything is based around the 23rd millenium (yup, 21000 years from now) and includes background on the whys and wherefores of people being all over the verse.

I have some playtesters and I posted some preliminary rules for people to look at.

So, the mechanics of the game have changed (so what, every rendition of traveller has changed the mechanics) and the background has changed (CT was designed to use any background, so again, no problem).

The fundimentals are all there - communication is limited to the speed of light, core and frontier worlds, lots of races, combat is fast and deadly - yup all the elements of Traveller are still there.

So, in response to your post, it's been done. From what I have found on the web, it's been done alot of times.

You as a player can pick and choose what you want, so, go ahead. Have fun.

Best regards

Dalton

 

[RandyT0001]

1930's Superman: flies faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, bends steel with his bare hands, wears a blue suit with an red S on it and red cape
1950's Superman: same as above
1970's Superman: same as above
1990's Superman: same as above
2006 Superman: same as above
The only thing I think that has changed is the artist that draws the comic and the writer that creates the stories. Superman really hasn't changed much, the basics are the same.

If you want cybernetics, nanotech, genetic engineering, AI, etc you can add it IYTU. You can use the Traveller rules to play Transhuman Space if you desire and have that as YTU. You could add tricorders, phasers, disruptors, phase inducers and other Star Trek goodies to YTU also if you desire. Of course when you add these items it tend to make the PC's jobs easier (using nanotech to solve the problem or using the tricorder to discover the hidden clue) and they dont have to figure it out themselves IMO.

I like the basic Traveller tech as it is (except maybe the computers need to be adjusted to reflect micro circuit intergration). If I wanted to play in THS I would buy SJG's book and GURPS rules. I want to play Traveller with it's PGMP's, combat armor, gauss rifles, etc.

 

[parmasson]

. . .know the grognards are going to want to burn me at a stake over this, fine. But has anyone ever thought of basically remaking the whole traveller universe and calling it "Traveller 2.0?"

You boys get the hydrocarbon fuel, I’ll get a match . . . .

Reinventing the TU is what has brought it to the balkanized state that it is in. The grognards have, do, and will continue to use our LBBs or whatever we use until old age and infirmity lay us low. The elusive “fresh blood” is out there but the OTU seems to be set. If T5 is major reworking only Mr. Miller knows what he has in mind and perhaps he isn’t even really sure yet. After the spectacular thud of T4 (my impression) T5 is gonna have to be special considering T20 is already out there and popular among the polyhedronists who like that sort of thing.

The elegance of CT is it lets you do whatever you want. The trick is YOU have to do it.

Respectfully submitted.

 

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
1930's Superman: flies faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, bends steel with his bare hands, wears a blue suit with an red S on it and red cape
1950's Superman: same as above
1970's Superman: same as above
1990's Superman: same as above
2006 Superman: same as above
The only thing I think that has changed is the artist that draws the comic and the writer that creates the stories. Superman really hasn't changed much, the basics are the same.

If you want cybernetics, nanotech, genetic engineering, AI, etc you can add it IYTU. You can use the Traveller rules to play Transhuman Space if you desire and have that as YTU. You could add tricorders, phasers, disruptors, phase inducers and other Star Trek goodies to YTU also if you desire. Of course when you add these items it tend to make the PC's jobs easier (using nanotech to solve the problem or using the tricorder to discover the hidden clue) and they dont have to figure it out themselves IMO.

I like the basic Traveller tech as it is (except maybe the computers need to be adjusted to reflect micro circuit intergration). If I wanted to play in THS I would buy SJG's book and GURPS rules. I want to play Traveller with it's PGMP's, combat armor, gauss rifles, etc.

Oh I don't want FGMP's, power armor, anti-grav to go anywhere, understand, I just want them to have microprocessors and the other goodies that it would take to make them work.

An example of upgrading traveller tech might be to explain that battledress is made from carbon nanotube based matrial, low berths work by using nanomachines to prevent celluar damage from freezing, etc.

 

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

Well well. I expected a flame fest and the majority of replies are positive, and the negatives are barely lukewarm, let alone hot.

Damn, and I just put on my asbestos plated armor before checking this thread out. What a waste!



Just to be sure everyone's on the same screen with me, I am talking about making the OTU, just with considerable tech advances and factoring in the effects of GE, AI and nanotech. I want the rich, deep universe that is traveller's strength, yes, just with some more technological spice.

It might be interesting to add in more human, and human derived factions who all believe each is the 'best way' for the race to go and that the others are either fools or abominations. Oh my, what grand conflicts could we stage in THAT universe...

Oh, one point re traveller tech I will make is that, for economic reasons that I'm sure are all too clear and obvious to most people in the west today, most traveller governments oppose excessive automation that leads to excess unemployment, as unemployed people are not good consumers keeping the wheels of commerce turning smoothly.

A great challenge to ANY society, including those of the advanced nations on earth today, will be to keep automation and technollogy from rendering people unecessary, as when people feel unecessary or excluded from society, they tend to get violent.

 

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
1930's Superman: flies faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, bends steel with his bare hands, wears a blue suit with an red S on it and red cape
1950's Superman: same as above
1970's Superman: same as above
1990's Superman: same as above
2006 Superman: same as above
The only thing I think that has changed is the artist that draws the comic and the writer that creates the stories. Superman really hasn't changed much, the basics are the same.

Um, no, the basics are not the same.

For the early part of his career, superman could not fly, but he could leap and eighth of a mile, run quickly and was invulnerable to anything short of artillery.

Later, supes could fly, and finally fly thru outer space faster than light, cross the galaxy in a few seconds, push planets out of orbit or melt them with heat vision, etc.

In the 80's, they redid the superman of the 60's and 70's with the new man of steel' series, in which supes had far, far less power, needed oxygen to breath and certainly could not fly faster than light by himself.

So they did change supes a lot over the years.

 

[Flynn]

I think the charm of Traveller lies in the Golden Age Sci-Fi universe it presents. As others have said, if I wanted all the bells and whistles of modern Sci-Fi (stuff introduced in the last 30 years or so), I'd either add it to my own game or play another system. What I want out of Traveller is the type of SF universe that Asimov, Heinlein and Clark, among others, described in their books from the 40s-60s. I'm nostalgic that way.

Aside from that, I'm okay if MWM decides to take the game forward. I'll use what I like, and what I don't like, well... I'll just use the old stuff. It's all good to me.

Personally, if you're going to remake the OTU and release an OTU 2.0, I think a smaller universe with an unexplored frontier would be the way to go for OTU 2.0. I mean, why go only part way on that? Make a rewrite an actual rewrite.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

As an aside, Superman didn't actually fly at first:
http://superman.ws/seventy/interview/?part=8

Enjoy!

 

[Ptah]

I'll take David Brin sci-fi inclusions anyday, at least alienwise.

An OTU 2.0 along the lines of Mr. Brins work/Babylon 5/Farscape where humans are one polity in a sea of aliens. Humans are not neccessarily the strongest but they fight the good fight and are exploring. Shades of Stargate here. One could easily slant such a OTU to humans on the run (Battlestar Galactic). This OTU 2.0 could span across multiple galaxies, each maybe with a little different universe/rule set (heck maybe thats how you combine all the previous OTUs).

The reason I mention the above is because they are some of todays most popular stories of humans reaching and adventuring in space. In yesteryear, we had the star spanning empires, today stories of humanity fighting the odds to achieve interstellar respect are popular. An OTU 2.0 that could evoke the feel of these settings might expand the reach or the venerable game.

Or how about super retro: Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers ... Just kidding, actually pretty controversial for its time. May still be.

 

[kafka47]

I think there is nothing wrong with keeping the Golden Age stuff and updating it with more current technology in parts. If you watch Battlestar Galatica (new series) or Firefly this is essentially very Golden Age SF.

The main rulebook ought to though convey the sense of wonder through the ages rather than just leaving us with Clarke's dictium on technology, some spelling it out would fire the imaginations. I am sure Marc reads the new stuff as well as re-reading the old stuff the challenge is how to keep it in without spoiling some of the crunchy old bits.

One way is to make the technology seemless as part of the background, eg. grav technology, part of the reason we accept flying cars in Traveller is that we believe somewhat in the handwave of gravatics. But, if in 1977, we had this discussion before Star Wars and that wonderful speeder that Luke and the Good Ole Boys we would be debating how this hoverdevice was actually working or was it some sort of aircar, therefore, where are the propellers, etc.

Similarly, we all accept Jumpspace without really knowing how it works, at one time we assumed it was FTL...then we accepted the Weave theory...just as tomorrow we might accept it is wormhole technology.

Just describe the universe in very general ways and throw ideas out like geneering and the imaginations of Refs and Players will do the rest.

 

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

Actually I think the aliens in traveller work just fine as is, in fact I more or less like them the way they are. Even the k'kree, who i hate on a personal level are well thought out, interesting, consistent and useful aliens.

I find the hivers to be a unique idea as I liked the concept of them being extremely primitive, pre-dinosaur in fact, creatures who, thru a major fluke (Or, perhaps, ancient intervention) developed intelligence way earlier than anyone else on the evolutionary ladder.

I'm reminded of the line from the original WotW movie in which the female scientist said, in her laughably bad fake french accent, "Ze marzhuns may bee eentellectual zhiants, boot biologically zay are vary preemeeteev organeezms."

I wonder if they got the idea of making extremely primitive creatures intellectually advanced from that?

My only gripe with the original traveller storyline and background was the ancients. I mean I like the idea of the ancients and all, I just had a hard time swallowing that one mutant droyne could do so much. IMTU I rewrote it a bit to make it more plausible: "Grandfather" was a droyne, yes, in fact he was a series of droynes who had all been possessed by an entity from jump space that ended up in our universe somehow and wanted/needed to get back, but it had no form in our universe and existed only as what could be described as a psionic entity.

This entity finally found a suitable host, a droyne with high level psionic potential, and merged with him, boosting his IQ and giving him a compulsion to advance science all his life, which he did.

The entity used up and moved on from one host to another, pushing droyne tech and assuming the 'grandfather' role until the droyne developed jump tech.

Once the droyne had a ship that could enter jump, the entity went home and left the 'grandfather' droyne to it's own, and the story of the ancients proceeded on from there pretty much as written.

it was a tiny change, yes, but I felt more comfortable with it than I did the 'single mutant droyne' theory.

 

[sid6.7]

ummmm do we really want another(6th)version?

sigh...

 

[Commander Drax]

Cybernetics routinely exist within the traveller universe, mostly they are discreet, the odd person with a warped personality might do otherwise. Artificial Intelligences do exist, tech 15 expert systems (are not true intelligences but are pretty convincing), enter the virus, which is truely intelligent though for the most part completely insane. Nano-technology, may not be possible, MEMS however are certainly possible (microelectrochemical systems) being tiny machines about the size of a grain of dust. Also you could argue that research into Nano Tech has been classified within the Imperium, any technology that would shatter the law of supply and demand whould also completely destroy the fabric of the Imperium,(it being based on trade between worlds). Also humans are not the dominant species in Imperial space, merely the most successful (for the moment). The Imperium not only teams with alien life, but is completely surrounded by it, in terms of weaker alien states, or states that have little in common with Imperial needs, such as the Two Thousand Worlds of the K'Kree.

Genetic engineering also goes on within the Imperium which has genertically engineered a number of human races, adapting them to conditions on other world, such as the Jonkeereen

Of course genetic engineering of humans is much more prevalent beyond Imperial space in the Solomani Confederation, in which terran species have been uplifted, and humans adapted to high or low g worlds. In short everything you can find within modern science fiction is available within the OTU, either as available tech, or advancing research, such as the ability to copy memories of a person into a clone, (partial memory transfers, available at TL-16), imparting life experience or skills.

The OTu is merely one of a number of era's to play within, if you want common, nano-tech and in your face cybernetics, just change the timeline, either the future or the past.

This is what I have done with my M0 campaign, in which individual worlds cut off from the interstellar community have evolved not just their own distinctive cultures but technologies also, some advanced, some bizarre, some out of desperation... Thus in MTU (milieu 0) cybernetics and experimental nano-technology abounds in the unexplored space surrounding the Imperium. When the Imperium encounters nano-tech, it classifies it and stifles the research, as nano-tech is a serious obstacle to commericial empires, whilst within the Imperial core cybernetics that enhance the human body are considered to be vulgar at court and within high society, resulting in prejudiuce, such as treating cyborgs as second class citizens or menial workers (a prejudice expressed in the MegaTraveller Product Knightfall) that included some cybernetic NPC - ship passengers).

Also the presence of permanent cybernetic weaponry or enhancements might cause legal complictiosn when travelling (such as refusal to allow you aboard a merchant vessel, in the belief that you might be a hi-jacker) or legal entaglments when you actually get to another world. Hence the emphasis on tech not integrated into the body, such as guns, hand computers, communicators etc. Where small devices are necessary they are once again, placed outside of the body, such as Com-dots (popular in the Scout Service).

If you look closely you can always see a reason why some technology is more prevalent than others with the OTU, with the reasons being either social or economic in the main.

Also as a parting shot, why would the Imperium cybernetically equip their soldiers when they have access to teh very best in combat armour and battledress, all of which can be discarded safely when there's a problem.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Roger Smith, Negotiator.:
Just to be sure everyone's on the same screen with me, I am talking about making the OTU, just with considerable tech advances and factoring in the effects of GE, AI and nanotech. I want the rich, deep universe that is traveller's strength, yes, just with some more technological spice.

What I would love to see is a completely new universe.

Keep the Golden Age SF feel, but include the new technology and ideas. Just make sure they don't take over (like in THS). Keep them in the background, but make sure they are included.

Then, flush the entire OTU. Oh, keep the broad strokes (Third Imperium, Emperor, X-boats, etc), and even keep some worlds (e.g. Regina, but with usable suns), but make it *much* smaller and rebuild it with the new technological background in mind.

Whatever is done, don't just "graft on" the new technology. The entire OTU is based on its technological assumptions. Change the technology, and the OTU falls apart like a wet cardboard castle. (Some would claim it already falls apart ...)

 

[Roger Smith Negotiator.]

Well, as long as we keep jump drive as is and don't allow FTL radio or something like that a lot of the traveller universe will still apply, even if we add in genetic engineering, some AI, cybernetics, limited nanotech, etc.

An interesting idea occurs: Maybe humanity survives in traveller because it's the only race willing and able to use GE and cybernetics. The k'kree view it as blesphemous, the hivers don't trust it, the vargr can't work together long enough to make it and the aslan believe they're perfect as is.

 

[mike wightman]

What if the Long Night was really caused by a singularity or rapture event, call it what you will.
Basically the AI aides that the Terrans used during the latter part of the Interstellar wars were also very useful during the Rule of Man.

These AIs developed far beyond what their builders could predict, and fought a secret war between themselves for... whatever it is they were interested in.

This was a virtual battlefield, with computer systems becoming corrupt, fabrication plants malfunctioning, ships disappearing etc.
think Virus but not as apocalyptic.

The winning evolved AIs disappear from everyday activities, and eventually the lesson is learned not to build computers or robots that are too clever - similar to the psychohistory experiment that caused the psionic suppression.

Over the centuries these lessons are slowly being forgotten, hence the renewed research into AI (Kinunir, Research Station Gamma library data, Virus).

 

[kafka47]

I like it...perhaps, it is not only that the sentient computers were creating copies but ventured into life by cross fertizating into lifeforms, of course, they began small.

Hence the Dayo Chip was actually their doing and then started moving into something larger, when it had evolved into full intelligence it became the Virus.

The AIs that "lived" back in the time of the Interstellar Wars have long abandoned Chartered Space but are called back to fight the Final Battle. These incredibly ancient AIs look at the whole of Chartered Space as an imaginary battleground against the predatory form of itself - Virus. Using all the Races of Chartered Space as mere pawns in this larger chessgame.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
What if the Long Night was really caused by a singularity or rapture event, call it what you will.
Basically the AI aides that the Terrans used during the latter part of the Interstellar wars were also very useful during the Rule of Man.

These AIs developed far beyond what their builders could predict, and fought a secret war between themselves for... whatever it is they were interested in.

This was a virtual battlefield, with computer systems becoming corrupt, fabrication plants malfunctioning, ships disappearing etc.
think Virus but not as apocalyptic.

The winning evolved AIs disappear from everyday activities, and eventually the lesson is learned not to build computers or robots that are too clever - similar to the psychohistory experiment that caused the psionic suppression.

Over the centuries these lessons are slowly being forgotten, hence the renewed research into AI (Kinunir, Research Station Gamma library data, Virus).

The War of the Machines instead of against them...very interesting.
Hence:
Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind. The Orange Catholic Bible

Of course there is nothing about making a human mind into the likeness of a machine.