Too much fame?

[jcrocker]

Fame rules on page 109 seem a bit... ...odd. Why would the level counter go up past 26?

If, for example, my Spacer sublieutenant has some good roles, a SEH with Diamonds gets him 10* his O2 rank = 20 fame points - which gets him entered into databases all across the Sector. So far, so good.

But if he gets lucky, and rolls just as well while he's a lieutenant, and with his good Characteristics to start with, if he gets it again next term, he's looking at 10*his O3 rank = another 30 fame points - which puts him well past the 36 level of known in "All Reality".

This entire universe is a mere 32 fame points, after all, and he could walk out with over 50 fame points!! I mean, it's great if he's passing by Valhalla and Freya wants to buy him a drink, great for him, but I really can't see this happening in an average campaign.

What is the biggest fame score anyone's seen generated?

Is Grandfather going to get cranky at some of these characters?

 

[Murdoc]

I once made a scout with a fame of 32 after 10 terms, but then that was using old beta rules where you could get Sanity back on the skill tables. And yes, it does seem odd. More realistic to me would be if the rules had a law of decreasing returns rather than increasing. IOW, it gets harder to get your fame farther away the higher you go, rather than easier. First of all because it becomes more costly to send the information that far, second because people farther away care less, and then once you get out of your own area/empire, etc. other cultures probably have a harder time understanding why you are famous, never mind care less. Who's the biggest pop star in Russia right now, does anyone know? (And even then not a great example given the differences between the Internet and X-boat service.)

 

[jcrocker]

[Who is the biggest pop star in Russia? That's easy, just ask Putin, he'll say who it is...]

And you're right, not many on the Solomani Rim would care who got the latest SEH in the Marches.

After the latest X-boat arrival, I have no problem with all the famous personages being searchable on the far side of the Imperium. And even beyond, I'm certain that there would be a clerk at the Zhodani Consulate whose job would be to compile the list of awards to Imperial military officers and the like, and code it and send it home, just to keep an eye on the Impies.

But famous across "All Reality"?? When [Spoilers] Grandfather has to lure the Zhodani into the Core Expeditions to try to find out about the Primordials living the the same galaxy, I don't really see "All Reality" coming into play.

 

[arentol]

If, for example, my Spacer sublieutenant has some good roles, a SEH with Diamonds gets him 10* his O2 rank = 20 fame points - which gets him entered into databases all across the Sector. So far, so good.

But if he gets lucky, and rolls just as well while he's a lieutenant, and with his good Characteristics to start with, if he gets it again next term, he's looking at 10*his O3 rank = another 30 fame points - which puts him well past the 36 level of known in "All Reality".

First thing is FAME is calculated when you Muster, not when the medal is earned. So under no circumstances would your above example make sense

Second, the correct calculation for the above character, assuming he musters out after the above example, is (03 + ((Diamond SEH)*2) = (3 + (10*2)) = 3+20 = 23.

And don't worry, I read it the same way as you at first. But then I realized how ridiculous that was when I ended up with a test character (3rd I ever rolled) honestly mustering out as an O3 (Got SEH and wasn't promoted that term WTF?) with XS, SEH, SEH, and *SEH*, which would have been Fame of 78 at age 38. His fame using the proper process is 29.... Which is also entirely ridiculous.

My suggestion is to change MCG to x2, SEH to x4, and *SEH* to x6. In the above examples the total would be 15 and 17 respectively, and both those characters could easily expect to get another 6-8 fame if they hang on for 2 or 3 more terms, so that seems reasonable to me.


One other note (mentioned here because I also misunderstood this at first). Enlisted do indeed have fame. They just don't have RANK based fame. They still get credited with fame for each medal they earn.

 

[Murdoc]

After the latest X-boat arrival, I have no problem with all the famous personages being searchable on the far side of the Imperium. And even beyond, I'm certain that there would be a clerk at the Zhodani Consulate whose job would be to compile the list of awards to Imperial military officers and the like, and code it and send it home, just to keep an eye on the Impies.

But that's just official records. Farther away means less exposure in the popular media, people's correspondence (whether by letter or 'social networking'), word of mouth, celebrity tours and award shows, etc. That's where the fame is. I'm sure I could look up on the Internet right now who is Russia's top pop star, even on a local website, but I don't hear anyone over here talking about them, or reading about them. But then maybe official records is where the thin edge of the wedge of fame is.

Hmm, that wedge thing gives me an idea... maybe we could have a modifier of some sort for distance from the relevant homeworld, or location of the event that caused the increase in fame. Something like -1 per x parsecs, where 'x' is the common jump number for information transmission (in the case of the 3I, that would be the x-boat jump of 4). In the 2I, -1 per 3, and 1I, -1 per 2. With this formula, you'd need a fame of about 33 before anyone on Terra will have heard of you on Capital. At an effective fame of just 1 (or so), they just won't much care.

I could also see adding in my house rules for using QREBS for the arts to modify this value to account for local variances (the simplified version is just add flux).

 

[jcrocker]

First thing is FAME is calculated when you Muster, not when the medal is earned. So under no circumstances would your above example make sense

Second, the correct calculation for the above character, assuming he musters out after the above example, is (03 + ((Diamond SEH)*2) = (3 + (10*2)) = 3+20 = 23.

I was hoping I'd gotten that wrong!

And don't worry, I read it the same way as you at first. But then I realized how ridiculous that was when I ended up with a test character (3rd I ever rolled) honestly mustering out as an O3 (Got SEH and wasn't promoted that term WTF?) with XS, SEH, SEH, and *SEH*, which would have been Fame of 78 at age 38. His fame using the proper process is 29.... Which is also entirely ridiculous.

My suggestion is to change MCG to x2, SEH to x4, and *SEH* to x6. In the above examples the total would be 15 and 17 respectively, and both those characters could easily expect to get another 6-8 fame if they hang on for 2 or 3 more terms, so that seems reasonable to me.


One other note (mentioned here because I also misunderstood this at first). Enlisted do indeed have fame. They just don't have RANK based fame. They still get credited with fame for each medal they earn.

Thanks.

More and better examples are needed, or change the "x10" to just plain "10".

 

[Frindur]

Ahh so my Marine Officer that ended his career as Rank 5 officer get

Fame / reason
5 / Officer Rank
11 / because he became Knight on Muster out
16 / 2x SEH
9 / 3xMCG
3 / 3xMCUF
-2 / Flux
----
42 and so everyone should know him?!

Did I miss something or calculated something wrong?
Given this result I think only the Highest Medal should give fame at all.

 

[Licheking]

Actually that's how i read it, only the highest medal is used for the calculation and only at muster out.

On a associated note, you could slow the progress of fame down by making the character earn so many points in each local before progressing to the next higher one. For example, (and i can't remember the exact numbers here, I'm at work, so bear with me) if you have 20 fame and that's equal to a sector then you would have to earn say 20 fame in another 10 sectors before you can go up to Fame 21 the imperium. Not sure how that would work in character gen but during game play would make sense and is a rule i have employed with my group. I have a player who's character has 36 Fame, so i downgraded it to 30 in the imperium and 6 in the zhodani consulate where he had done most of his fighting in the marines.