To be blunt

[Magnus von Thornwood]

We will see.

One of the problems with using this sort of thing as an example of T5 play, I suspect, is that a lot of House Rules will be used.

The best of all possible worlds would be to see a game run, rules as written.

Well, I must admit I do have my House Rules, but mostly those are for my ATU's setting which is not the OTU. Haven't House Ruled much outside my setting so far, but hey I am a GM so I have yet to meet a set of rules I didn't House Rule at least a little bit (assuming I am running in my Universe and not the System's base).

 

[robject]

That one's not exactly true. Inuit/inupiaq are agglutinative languages. Essentially, most of the "words" for different snow types are a single root with adjectives-as-affixes.

We have a little bit of that, if you include compound words that are merging... though we don't agglutinate typically...

snow
snowy
snowbound
snowboard
snowboarding

 

[Timerover51]

Ok Ill admit it I am a veteran GM that has always wanted to run Traveller, I have run just about every other sci-fi game and thought Traveller can do this better. So I jump in swinging, dosh out big money on T5, yes its a lot to swallow, yes its like getting punched in the face with a rule book, but it has so much potential. Yet the hate here, on its very own board (T5), can be cut with a knife. For a first time player and delver into all that is Traveller its terrible. So bad I want to chuck the game not for the rules but for the community.

So to be blunt the attitude sucks - its a good game and more than that its a toolbox that can be adapted to other games.

All it needs is some positive attitudes*, its not broken I have only touched mongoose and some old mega-Traveller stuff, the game works fine for me.

I sadly am not a man with all the answers, but I am a first time visitor to here the home of the Traveller and the home of T5. After seeing a lot of the stuff here I am thinking every time I look at this glorious clunky all encompassing book I purchased a white elephant.

Now with that off my chest - I ll jaunt over to my threads.....

*to be fair there are some people with great attitudes and helpful manner, but negativity as Douglas Adams teaches us makes star ships travel faster.

Black elephant, not white.

Levity aside, I spend three weeks every summer teaching gifted middle school through high school students history through the use of historically-based board games, such as Diplomacy, History of the World, Axis and Allies in its various forms, and the Empire Builder series of games put out by Mayfair. We occasionally stray from the pure historical and use Attack (with my modifications) and Mayfair's Iron Dragon (because of the interesting wrinkles in that particular game). I have gotten permission from the program director to run an historically-based Space: 1889 game next year, set in the Amazon Basin. I also teach a class for the same program in how to design games, from board games to role-playing games.

If I ever got permission to run a science-fiction based game, probably not during the summer but possibly on a one-off weekend games day, I would not use Traveller 5. I would use either the original Little Black Books or Starter Traveller. I borrowed a hard copy from a friend and spent 3 months going through it. Aside from its complexity and continuous use of acronyms, it has a large amount of extraneous material, and desperately needed an editor with the ability to tell Mr. Miller to trim it down. I do not view it as an acceptable starter game. Note, I am working with gifted students, whose parents are paying a large sum for them to be in the program, and they are all there because they WANT TO BE THERE.

Describing Traveller 5 as a tool box is a good analogy, but you do not give a mechanic's or an electrician's tool box to someone who has no idea as to what the tools are or how to use them.

 

[tinker123]

something positive

I'm sure that negative reactions from the old-timers could make you wonder what you've chosen to invest your time and money into. So here's a positive thought. People are only disappointed with T5 because they liked its predecessors so much. And the predecessors were all there on the CD with it (at least they were on the one I received).

So new players can choose to play CT and just use the T5 rules as a compendium of optional house rules if that suits them better. Or start with T4, or MT, or whatever works for you.

I was delighted to find I'd been given the one edition of the rules that I'd not bought in print.

 

[Ulsyus]

Describing Traveller 5 as a tool box is a good analogy, but you do not give a mechanic's or an electrician's tool box to someone who has no idea as to what the tools are or how to use them.

So are the tools in the box any good? If examples can be re-worked, and wrinkles ironed out, and a player's book put together to cover character generation & tasks & combat in it's various forms, would that be an appropriate volume for players, leaving a full T5 for referees?

 

[robject]

So are the tools in the box any good? If examples can be re-worked, and wrinkles ironed out, and a player's book put together to cover character generation & tasks & combat in it's various forms, would that be an appropriate volume for players, leaving a full T5 for referees?

I think the tools are excellent (despite the things I would tweak). What is needed, aside from errata and a player's guide, is a conversion of "essential" Traveller weapons, armor, vehicles, small craft, and starships, and a number of worked-out step-by-step examples.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Is there a version of Traveller that didn't get 'HouseRules'?

 

[Vargas]

Is there a version of Traveller that didn't get 'HouseRules'?

Is there any game that doesn't have them?

 

[Spaceresearcher]

I'd give several examples of great games that do not require or need house rules but I'm not allowed to list the names of other RPG's on the COTI board(others do but for whatever reason I'm not allowed).

It's great to read that some people think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread but on declaring it works out of the box? Guys please, go and perform all the corrections on the errata listing before going that far at least.

 

[mike wightman]

Yes you are. Aramis does it all the time so it would be pretty hypocritical to get an infraction for it

I've seen threads discussing other science fiction games and their influence on your traveller game setting, and whole thread about other games (The One Ring and Mg Conan are the common ones at the moment).

That said I can't think of a single game I've ever played or run that hasn't resorted to house rules at some point. I have loads of house rules for D&D and Runequest for example. My Traveller rules are constantly being tested with new house rules stolen from various places.

(I have tried a couple of Traveller sessions using a 2d-2d flux mechanic for task resolution, I'm playing around with a dice pool pick best 3, two of which give your task resolution number the third is your effect die and I'm definitely going to try ripping off the advantage/disadvantage system from 5e D&D - they call this stuff hacking a game in the new fangled rpg community speak I believe).

 

[robject]

Is there any game that doesn't have them?

I won't name it, but a certain game whose name rhymes with "Glamma World" (no, it's not about getting a break in the cutthroat world of beauty stylists) we ran out of the box. Similarly one whose name rhymes with "Dungeness & Sea Dragons", both blue and red boxes (and no, it's not about getting a break in the cutthroat world of seafood restaurants).

But then, the rules were so "flatly undisentangleable" (your mileage may vary), they were immune to being tinkered with.

 

[pendragonman]

I won't name it, but a certain game whose name rhymes with "Glamma World" (no, it's not about getting a break in the cutthroat world of beauty stylists) we ran out of the box. Similarly one whose name rhymes with "Dungeness & Sea Dragons", both blue and red boxes (and no, it's not about getting a break in the cutthroat world of seafood restaurants).

But then, the rules were so "flatly undisentangleable" (your mileage may vary), they were immune to being tinkered with.

Plus, there is the idea that some people's house rules are really setting parameters. Yes, sometimes people's setting parameters alter listed rules (especially so for that game of seafood restaurants, some people like to buy their stocks off the pier straight from the fishermen some like to go to a shop), but they are really setting parameters and so are they REALLY House Rules for altering the game rules or Setting Modifications that every setting has?

 

[aramis]

I run the Firefly RPG without house rules.
I run Blood and Honor without house rules.

I've yet to see a Traveller ruleset that doesn't benefit from houseruling. Then again, I consider Traveller the settings, not any given ruleset. Not a one matches the fluff exactly. All of them are playable as written, but many find this or that needs tweaking to fit their gaming or OTU interpretation needs.

 

[Timerover51]

So are the tools in the box any good? If examples can be re-worked, and wrinkles ironed out, and a player's book put together to cover character generation & tasks & combat in it's various forms, would that be an appropriate volume for players, leaving a full T5 for referees?

If you took the basics of the rules and boiled them down into a 72 to 96 page book and put them through a thorough and independent edit to avoid errata problems, you probably would have a basic book to work from with the Big Black Book used as a supplement. There are some good ideas in it, just hard to sort them out.

 

[JFGarber]

Similarly one whose name rhymes with "Dungeness & Sea Dragons", both blue and red boxes (and no, it's not about getting a break in the cutthroat world of seafood restaurants).

I happily ran those boxes with no house rules for many years. The rules were simple, straightforward, and easy to explain. OTOH, that was before I discovered girls and learned the joys inherent in complexity.

 

[Ulsyus]

I happily ran those boxes with no house rules for many years. The rules were simple, straightforward, and easy to explain. OTOH, that was before I discovered girls and learned the joys inherent in complexity.

Clearly you didn't have the rules on Personals on p185 at that point, which would have made interaction with those creatures far more logical.

Just ask Sheldon Cooper.

 

[Tiikeri]

For a first time player and delver into all that is Traveller its terrible.

OP,

Just bear in mind that many of the posters on CotI and on its predecessor the Traveller Mailing List have known each other for many, many years, and sometimes they can have arguments which seem harsh to someone who doesn't have the perspective of their long acquaintances.

The most important thing is what you think about T5. It's your game now, what you are doing with it is what matters. What other people think is their business. I understand that the criticisms and negativity can seem overwhelming, but like I said, if you like T5 and you're doing interesting things with T5 that's all that matters. I'd like it if you'd share on the forum some of the interesting things you're doing so we can read about them.

I know how you feel. I like Phoenix Command, which is one of the most reviled and misunderstood games of all time. I love it and I routinely convert other games to it. What other people think about it is their business, and I don't let negativity affect how I feel because I know what I like and other people are free to have their opinions. Even if someone points out a problem with a lot of negativity, then I take the information from the post and leave the emotional context.

 

[Shonner]

Someone complained about other people complaining about T5?

if you like T5 and you're doing interesting things with T5 that's all that matters. I'd like it if you'd share on the forum some of the interesting things you're doing so we can read about them.

I'd like to see a recorded Google+ Hangout posted on YouTube showing players liking a game of T5.

 

[Original_Carl]

Someone complained about other people complaining about T5?

I'd like to see a recorded Google+ Hangout posted on YouTube showing players liking a game of T5.

The complaint was that here on the in-house T5 board there's a lot inflammatory criticism that reads like an Edition War. It's not helpful, and it drives away potential adopters of the game.

If you're near Tacoma, Washington, you're welcome to come to my game and see people liking T5 in-person. PM me if you're interested.

 

[rancke]

The complaint was that here on the in-house T5 board there's a lot inflammatory criticism that reads like an Edition War. It's not helpful, and it drives away potential adopters of the game.

My complaint is that there are a lot more complaints about inflammatory criticism and people taking unwarranted offense over non-inflammatory criticism than there is inflammatory criticism. In my opinion such complaints do more to poison the atmosphere here on the boards than the original criticism. Please consider reporting offensive posts to the moderators instead of complaining about them in public.

Note: This is a personal appeal from me with no authority behind it whatsoever. It would be nice if the moderators made their opinions known, though.


Hans