TL 11 'Deck Sweeper' SMG and Boarding Weapons

[BraselC5048]

First off, a note-this is for an alternite universe, with the Imperium fighting the Terrans, and everybody at TL 11.

Imperial Navy SMG - Enlisted Model
Designed using FF&S.
uses 10X24mm straight, non ETC ammo. Weight 2.45kg empty, 3.2kg loaded. Folding stock, short muzzle brake, flash surpresser. Length 36.2/56.2 cm. Price 532 cr.

With the standard issue HEAP ammo, damage 5, pen 2-2-2, short range 30m, Fires 5 round bursts. Bulk 2/4. Recoil 3.

Officers Model

Wood stock and pistol grips. No muzzle brake or flash supressor. Weight 4.4kg empty, 5.15kg Loaded. Heavy barrel and reciever. Length 52.2 cm.

Same ammo as above, same damage, pen and short range. Fires 3 or 5 round bursts. Bulk 3, recoil 2.
Price 970 cr.

Magizines
30 round box magizine-.75kg
70 round drum magizine-1.7kg
This is the standard SMG in Imperial Navy use. Its HEAP ammo is the most advanced feature, doing 5 damage, with 2 penatration. It's only 52.2 cm long, with a 9.8 cm barrel, and the officer's model also has a very low recoil, only recoil 2, in spite of the high damage.
This falls under the 'fun to shoot in enclosed space' catagory. Damage 5, recoil 2, 70 round drum magizine, Mow em' Down!

So what do you guys think?

Enlisted Model

Officers Model

 

[aramis]

Officers shold still have a folding stock, IMO.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

I guess a couple thoughts come to mind.

First, the magazines look awfully long. Is there a potential for them to get caught/entangled with a soldiers other equipment and or banged against doors jams etc while moving about (which might cause jamming)?

Second, you state no flash suppressors or muzle brakes. Could this be a liability for shipborne use?

I am not really sure that either of these are real issues, but they are just thoughts that crossed my mind looking at what you posted, and so I thought I'd pass them along.

Regards

PF

 

[BraselC5048]

The magizines are about 24 cm long, or about 9.5 inches. They certainly look long, since the gun is only 52.4 cm long, or about 20 inches (the gun's pretty small) For anybody who actually knows this, is ammo is magizines stored like this:
] B[
]B [
] B[
]B [
At about a 45 degree angle between bullets? If not, how is it stored? Anybody know about what angle?

The wood stock, besides giving the officer's version a little more class, increases the weapon's weight, along with the heavy reciever and barrel. That reduces the gun's recoil from 3 to 2, even while eliminating the muzzle brake, which reduces the weapon's bulk from 4 to 3. Adding a flash supressor would increse the bulk to 4, and FF&S says that, for the gun's muzzle energy, the flash would only be visable in the dark, or mabye from a poorly lit area. I figure that the reduced recoil and decreased bulk is worth the loss of the flash supressor and folding stock. Anyway, the increased weight more then makes up for the loss of the muzzle brake.

Edit - one other thing, if the gun in the picture is about 26 cm or 10 inches long on your screen, then it's about 1/2 actual size.

 

[BlackBat242]

As a former USMC Sgt, who has field experience with weapons, that weapon design is not correct!

If the magazine is about 9.5 inches long, then your pistol grip is about 4 inches long... which will be a tight fit for many soldiers' hands.

At nearly 10 inches long, that magazine WILL get caught on things.

There are, however, several magazine designs in our TL 7/8 world that would be able to carry that ammo load AND be more usable in a combat weapon.

Try something similar to the high-capacity Calico helical magazine http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm.

 

[Icosahedron]

Sounds like the 'snubmachinegun' to me, firing snub pistol ammo. Not a new idea, but an interesting take on it. You could probably get the magazine shorter and fatter than that, though at ten inches, it's not enormously long.

 

[sabredog]

Should be something more like this: (shotgun version)

or this: (Gauss SMG version)

..or this (RAM Launcher version): ooooo....flechettes!

All tight to the operator's body for clearing corners and rooms quickly without hanging up on stuff, and while a high capacity magazine is nice, in some cases, short controlled bursts firing things like shotgun and flechette are better. Actually, short bursts are always better, but if you absolutley, positively just gotta slaughter everyone downrange at once you still just can't beat HE or flechette. It's just that if the thing's ROF is too high then you might not only end up with a jammed gun but also get caught behind the loop in the reloading cycle.

 

[Major B]

Brasel, I agree with most of the feedback you've already gathered.

Another point on the magazine - it doesn't follow the magazine well built in to the receiver. The magazine should be canted at an angle to fit into the magazine well. Recommend either a shorter magazine that fits the angle of the well or even better, pick a new lower receiver and use a helical magazine.

Also, the tall flip-up sight is unecessary unless you intend to use this at long range. If it is for shipboard use it would be better served with a rail on top where a wide-aperature electronic sight could be attached. An aimpoint sight like that is much better suited to shipboard engagements.

Last, the forward handgrip is really un-necessary but maybe that is just my preference. I'd either move it forward to make room for the new magazine arrangement or eliminate it altogether.

 

[BraselC5048]

You guys have some good points. As it turns out, the math I did for the magizine length was completly wrong, and the grips were difinitly too small

Here's a revised Version:

Here's one without the forward grip:

And here's one with a 60 round drum magizine (the 70 round one proved too big):

 

[sabredog]

It's getting there....let me suggest a couple of things:

Instead of the forward grip use a bigger handguard or the handguard type that fits around the front of the mag well. A cylindrical free-floating handguard would allow the operator to hold the weapon easier than the grip - more ergonomic given it's size and overall shape. IMHO and experience.

Lose the sold stock - you're not going to use it as a club and the weight will just be a pain. Use a collapsing stock and that way different operators can set the length on the weapon to their preference. And it will be more concealable.

A weapon like this won't be held like a rifle, it will be held like a long pistol with the operator squared off facing the threat, elbows in tight and down against the body (keeps your armor fronted to the threat and is the same stance you'd use for the handgun you'll transition to when your primary gun goes "click"). If you consider those things, while the solid stock and double grips make it look kinda retro (and I like that too) it might make the design awkward and less effective than it could be in real life.

 

[sabredog]

Here is something I just threw together to illustrate what I suggested above. It has a folding stock (lighter than collapsible, but also looked better and we all know the rule of cool is important), and a free-float handguard over the barrel.

The operator can use the handguard or can use, with the box mags the snap-on grip that firs the mag well. If the dual-drum 200rd magazine is used then that will probably be the grip much like with say, a PPSH.

I added a rail to the top and attached a holosight well forward on the gun so the operator can more easily use the sight while keeping the weapon tight into his body. A holosight is easy to use, makes for fast target acquisition, can be night vision compatible, and well, it's just plain zoomy.

Now the round I show here is roughly the 5.7x28mm type used by a lot of PDWS guns today. And the FN Five-Seven pistol. For some reason FN even has a subsonic version for use with a suppressor but that seems a little goofy to me. But it has more punch than a 9mm, and is also usable in a handgun so the guys using these only have to carry one kind of round and you never know when that can be important.

But as always, this is only an example and suggestion. It would work the same way for 9mm, but the 5-7 round has really good armor penetration. Really good.

Anyhow I just wanted to give you a clearer picture of what I was describing.

 

[Johnny_BoomBoom]

Here is something I just threw together to illustrate what I suggested above. It has a folding stock (lighter than collapsible, but also looked better and we all know the rule of cool is important), and a free-float handguard over the barrel.

The operator can use the handguard or can use, with the box mags the snap-on grip that firs the mag well. If the dual-drum 200rd magazine is used then that will probably be the grip much like with say, a PPSH.

I added a rail to the top and attached a holosight well forward on the gun so the operator can more easily use the sight while keeping the weapon tight into his body. A holosight is easy to use, makes for fast target acquisition, can be night vision compatible, and well, it's just plain zoomy.

Now the round I show here is roughly the 5.7x28mm type used by a lot of PDWS guns today. And the FN Five-Seven pistol. For some reason FN even has a subsonic version for use with a suppressor but that seems a little goofy to me. But it has more punch than a 9mm, and is also usable in a handgun so the guys using these only have to carry one kind of round and you never know when that can be important.

But as always, this is only an example and suggestion. It would work the same way for 9mm, but the 5-7 round has really good armor penetration. Really good.

Anyhow I just wanted to give you a clearer picture of what I was describing.

I also thought that the initial design remit by the OP sounded much like a PPSh - 41 or the revised PPS-43.