And give up a whole entire other Universe they could conquer, why would they do that, there is a duplicate of every world in the Solomani rim, and 1.5 billion people living on Earth., and just think, 1889 Earth would be a great place to exile troublesome Solomani dissidents too, they could settle the American West.
Time Travel in a Traveller campaign
- Thread starter Werner
- Start date
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Or the players could transmit some quite nasty unknown off-planet germs to the Earth population and trigger some massive pandemics. That would result in them being killed as soon as they could be caught. What would happen to the ship is an interesting question, but it likely would be thoroughly disinfected with very hot high pressure steam, and anything else the Terrans could think of using. That might not necessarily take out all of the germs, but it might make a real mess of the ship.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
They would be destroying their own time line, and likely vanish as a result. Tampering with time previous to your own existence is something that the average future accidental time traveller would likely be aware off.
Alien germs would be unlikely to infect human hosts, as they have not evolved for such an environment. Also a ship's crew would be less likely to be working with animals that would a typical native of 1889 era Earth, most of whom would be farmers. The crew would be more likely to catch an 1889 era disease, as they have not likely been inoculated for things like smallpox, or measles. Ship crews work in clean sterile environments of a Starship, not mucking around in manure piles in barns from farm animals. Alien animals would not likely carry diseases that affect humans.
That itself would be a paradox. If changing the timeline would cause them not to exist, then they couldn't change the timeline because they don't exist, and since the timeline wasn't changed they exist! One way to prevent paradoxes is to have a branching timeline everytime someone goes into the past, so they couldn't really change their own timeline but only that of a seperate branch of the timeline from the one they originated on.
Balloons had been in military use for over 40 years at that time. The first dirigibles were 1850's...
So flight won't be a "Fear the god from the sky" but will be "How the bloody hell does he do that?"
Space.com https://www.space.com/16623-first-powered-airship.html said:
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
What germs would have developed over the period of time from 1889 to the 3rd Imperium, as well as what germs or viruses of an off-planet origin that do affect humans are being carried by the crew as a result of being alive?
Typhoid Mary was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid, and was the source of several typhoid outbreaks. What is your basis for assuming that a starship crewman might not be the future equivalent of Typhoid Mary? What germs and viruses developed on Vland in the 300.000 years of human occupancy that are totally unknown on Earth, but could be carried by any starship crewman?
What makes you think that a starship has a clean and sterile environment? Is is carrying any food and human waste? What is it carrying in its cargo hold? Would you regard a current airliner as a clean and sterile environment? What makes you assume that all starships are thoroughly sterilized prior to any space flight?
Last edited:
Then there should have been a massive plague at the time the First Imperium contacted the Terrans. I don't think natives of 1889 had weak immune systems like the native American tribes Christopher Columbus contacted, and the germs went one way, from European explorers and settlers to the Indians, Europe was not decimated like the Indians were because the Europeans practiced animal husbandry and the Indians did not. I willing to bet that most high tech level Traveller characters don't practice animal husbandry, they get their food from a store, they don't raise it and slaughter it on a farm.
Most Traveller characters get vaccinated for diseases, now just because I was vaccinated for measles doesn't mean I would give measles to someone else, and what do you think would happen if your characters contacted the First Imperium, they would be susceptible to your diseases and you to theirs, it would be no different with them.
Also getting to the First Imperium in 1889 might prove difficult if your jump drive was damaged by the misjump. You do have other options if you have low berths. The typical scout ship can operate for 4 weeks and can accelerate at 2g, so you can use your maneuver drive to get there. After accelerating at 2g for 2 weeks, your ship can reach a cruise velocity of 8% of the speed of light, and at 8% of the speed of light, each parsec you cross (3.26 light years) will take 40.75 years. Now on the map, count the number of hexes between Terra and the First Imperium and multiply that number by 40.75 years and that is how long it will take.
Come to think of it, a scout ship can go slower than 8% of the speed of light, if you trust your low berths to bring you forward in time, you can plot a course from Terra to Prometheus, and pick your velocity such that when you enter the Prometheus System, you will be back in the present 1105 Imperial, your voyage through interstellar space will ensure that no one will disturb your Starship while you and your crew lie frozen in your low berths, you still have to deal with the low berth lottery however, some of you might not survive the freezing and thawing process, and of course if you changed the timeline, all bets are off!
Last edited:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I'd avoid Siberia, if you're stuck there for twenty years.
Or Roswell, if sixty.
Or Roswell, if sixty.
The PCs, if they chose, could create their own civilization in the late 19th and early 20th century, they could print out all the information 1.5 billion people would need to colonize space around Earth.
This consideration of disease (typhoid, measles . . .) is why I noted:
I'm thinking (hoping) that TL D-F medicine might have some broad-spectrum vaccines/anti-bacterial and -viral Super-sciency meds to boost immunity even without knowing specifically what bugs are out there to fight. Especially since the 3Imp has a history of dealing with Terran microflora, and the same general bugs (or their relatives) should be around. Hmmm: was there one of the sourcebooks, or maybe the traveller-wiki that discussed the effect on the Ziru Sirka of contact with the Terrans? A big, hairy plague, I seem to recall.
I'm thinking (hoping) that TL D-F medicine might have some broad-spectrum vaccines/anti-bacterial and -viral Super-sciency meds to boost immunity even without knowing specifically what bugs are out there to fight. Especially since the 3Imp has a history of dealing with Terran microflora, and the same general bugs (or their relatives) should be around. Hmmm: was there one of the sourcebooks, or maybe the traveller-wiki that discussed the effect on the Ziru Sirka of contact with the Terrans? A big, hairy plague, I seem to recall.
Not every germ is the bubonic plague. Some people would get sick and then their immune systems would fight it off, it would just be another disease like the common cold. Anyway whatever applies to Earth 1889, would also apply to any newly contacted world with human on it, the fact that there are varying tech levels from world to world indicates there is some degree of isolation, if technology doesn't travel too far then neither do germs.
it is quite possible depending on how "alien" your aliens are. If you recall GURPS: Interstellar Wars, the Vilani were transplanted to a world that was sufficiently different from Terran DNA that they could perform basic invasive surgery without the stringent sterilization procedures we employ. The local bugs for the most part did not find Vilani tasty. Then the Terrans showed up with our colds and flu and all the other nasty bugs we got used to over previous millennia.
Those "alien" Vilani with their strange blood types and stranger customs...
Those "alien" Vilani with their strange blood types and stranger customs...
Which would argue that the time traveling Imperium citizens would be more in danger from the 1889 germs, than would 1889 natives would be from any of the germs the player characters brought along, besides it's only a game, what would be more fun for the players, having the characters isolate themselves and make no contact with the natives, or having an adventure in Earth's past? The player characters would bring more medical technology in their sick bay, that the 1889 native would have, so the players would be in a better position to deal with 1889 diseases they might catch, and if they have been inoculated against future diseases, that would mean they would not carry those diseases within their system to spread to other people who have not been so inoculated.
Now we get to the interesting part, what happens when we increase the tech level of a 19th century society? How would the PCs approach it assuming their ship is stranded in the 1889 Solar System? They can fly around with their maneuver drive, visit other planets, but their jump drive is broke, and I don't believe scout/couriers come with low berths, unless the player characters explicitly say they were added to the Starship. Low berths are risky for getting back to the present, characters might die, and if it's in a parallel timeline, the future they return to might not be their's. The only way to return to their universe would be to repair the jump drive, and "reverse" the misjump, that means the PCs would have to deliberately set up conditions so they would misjump back to their original timeline and time, as was said, increasing their tech level to whatever tech level their jump drive is might take 50 years, and they would need a lot of help from the locals, and create a new setting in the process. Imagine the British Empire in space taking on the Vilani!
Maybe, but its a matter of scenario.
A.The average modern Imperial is the product of 3000 years of intermingling of the races of humans and exposure to illness since Terran/Vilani First Contact in the early 2100's AD. Mutation will spawn new diseases as Terrans bring the cows, chickens, shipboard animal mascots, etc. and compatible plants. An 1889 AD human is in danger of a future disease which has benefitted from those 3000+ years of intermingling and bashing it self against increased immunity and science.
BUT its a two way street :coffeegulp: You could well be right.
B. There are some illnesses that we have never had real natural immunity to and worse may be "forgotten". One example might be smallpox. The last US outbreak occurred in 1949. The last smallpox vaccines were given in 1980 and now exists only in laboratories (as far as we know). :devil: Say, a time traveler goes back to 1889 and gets exposed. Will those samples exist 3000+ years in the future to make new vaccine? Or will billions suffer and die as the research has to be redone :smirk:
A.The average modern Imperial is the product of 3000 years of intermingling of the races of humans and exposure to illness since Terran/Vilani First Contact in the early 2100's AD. Mutation will spawn new diseases as Terrans bring the cows, chickens, shipboard animal mascots, etc. and compatible plants. An 1889 AD human is in danger of a future disease which has benefitted from those 3000+ years of intermingling and bashing it self against increased immunity and science.
BUT its a two way street :coffeegulp: You could well be right.
B. There are some illnesses that we have never had real natural immunity to and worse may be "forgotten". One example might be smallpox. The last US outbreak occurred in 1949. The last smallpox vaccines were given in 1980 and now exists only in laboratories (as far as we know). :devil: Say, a time traveler goes back to 1889 and gets exposed. Will those samples exist 3000+ years in the future to make new vaccine? Or will billions suffer and die as the research has to be redone :smirk:
Maybe, but its a matter of scenario.
A.The average modern Imperial is the product of 3000 years of intermingling of the races of humans and exposure to illness since Terran/Vilani First Contact in the early 2100's AD. Mutation will spawn new diseases as Terrans bring the cows, chickens, shipboard animal mascots, etc. and compatible plants. An 1889 AD human is in danger of a future disease which has benefitted from those 3000+ years of intermingling and bashing it self against increased immunity and science.
BUT its a two way street :coffeegulp: You could well be right.
B. There are some illnesses that we have never had real natural immunity to and worse may be "forgotten". One example might be smallpox. The last US outbreak occurred in 1949. The last smallpox vaccines were given in 1980 and now exists only in laboratories (as far as we know). :devil: Say, a time traveler goes back to 1889 and gets exposed. Will those samples exist 3000+ years in the future to make new vaccine? Or will billions suffer and die as the research has to be redone :smirk:
Being immune to a disease means your immune system kills it off and won't let it replicate in you body, you won't catch it, you won't have it in your body and therefore won't infect others. Diseases are spread by people who catch the disease, not by people who have developed antibodies against them, this is what is known as herd immunity, if enough people have caught it and developed immunities or have been innoculated, then the disease stops spreading, because the next person you spread it to is more likely to have an immunity that not, then the disease is stuck in the bodies of those already infected who have no one else they can spread it to, those infected either die and the disease dies with them as it will run out of living cells to infect, or that person will recover and become immune and the disease dies there. Only people who are not immune can catch the disease and spread it to others, when the disease runs out of those people it dies off.
Maybe, but its a matter of scenario.
A.The average modern Imperial is the product of 3000 years of intermingling of the races of humans and exposure to illness since Terran/Vilani First Contact in the early 2100's AD. Mutation will spawn new diseases as Terrans bring the cows, chickens, shipboard animal mascots, etc. and compatible plants. An 1889 AD human is in danger of a future disease which has benefitted from those 3000+ years of intermingling and bashing it self against increased immunity and science.
BUT its a two way street :coffeegulp: You could well be right.
B. There are some illnesses that we have never had real natural immunity to and worse may be "forgotten". One example might be smallpox. The last US outbreak occurred in 1949. The last smallpox vaccines were given in 1980 and now exists only in laboratories (as far as we know). :devil: Say, a time traveler goes back to 1889 and gets exposed. Will those samples exist 3000+ years in the future to make new vaccine? Or will billions suffer and die as the research has to be redone :smirk:
I might also point out that the jump drive limits the ability of a disease to spread, anyone who is in jump space is in effect quarantined for a week.
Another scenario comes to mind. A Mercenary Cruiser misjumps and precipitates back into normal space at the 100 diameter limit at 9:02 AM on Eastern standard time on June 3, 2021 AD, the crew and mercenaries onboard are dead, they were involved in an action that involved the use of bioweapons, the astrogator in charge was ill and he jumped the Starship too deep inside the gravity well of a planet in the Prometheus System, the crew and all passengers were dead of this disease by the time the ship returns to normal space, the ship's computer takes the Merc cruiser into low Earth orbit, at about the same altitude as the International Space Station over the equator, and then the computer shuts down the power plant and engines and puts the ship on standby mode as it detects no living crew onboard.
Some scientists doing some experiments with a gravitational wave detector notices a spike in their readings at this time, they triangulated the source to something that appeared at the 100 diameter limit.
The crew and NORAD detects the Merc Cruiser on their radar, they are not sure what to make of it, the president of the United States is informed and the military is put on alert as the object settles into low Earth orbit. A transponder signal from the spaceship is detected, the ship does not respond to radio signals beamed at it. Infrared signals are detected coming from the reactor, which then cools down when the ship goes on standby. Some scientists in Antarctica detect a spike in neutrino emissions which they trace to the Ship's engines.
The president holds a meeting with his staff at the White House, and later contacts foreign leaders of China, Europe, Japan, and Russia, they all claim to have nothing to do with the object in low Earth orbit, the conclusion is that it is an alien craft of extraterrestrial origin. Several efforts have been made to contact it, but so far there has been no response. The president calls up Elon Musk, and asks how long it will be before he could have a falcon ready for launch, the answer he gets is about two to three weeks at the earliest.
What do you think happens next?
Some scientists doing some experiments with a gravitational wave detector notices a spike in their readings at this time, they triangulated the source to something that appeared at the 100 diameter limit.
The crew and NORAD detects the Merc Cruiser on their radar, they are not sure what to make of it, the president of the United States is informed and the military is put on alert as the object settles into low Earth orbit. A transponder signal from the spaceship is detected, the ship does not respond to radio signals beamed at it. Infrared signals are detected coming from the reactor, which then cools down when the ship goes on standby. Some scientists in Antarctica detect a spike in neutrino emissions which they trace to the Ship's engines.
The president holds a meeting with his staff at the White House, and later contacts foreign leaders of China, Europe, Japan, and Russia, they all claim to have nothing to do with the object in low Earth orbit, the conclusion is that it is an alien craft of extraterrestrial origin. Several efforts have been made to contact it, but so far there has been no response. The president calls up Elon Musk, and asks how long it will be before he could have a falcon ready for launch, the answer he gets is about two to three weeks at the earliest.
What do you think happens next?
A great convention scenario. "Okay, you get the hatch open. Roll versus health. No reason."
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Space travel tends to be a great way to isolate contagion.
Time travel may be a great way to kickstart evolution.
Time travel may be a great way to kickstart evolution.
