Three Models for Starports and their worlds

[MThompson016]

I did a bit of thinking recently about some analogies for starports and how they interact with their worlds. I've got three of them, and you can read about them here at my blog.

And yes, I am blog-whoring!

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I did a bit of thinking recently about some analogies for starports and how they interact with their worlds. I've got three of them, and you can read about them here at my blog.

And yes, I am blog-whoring!

Yeah, we might actually have an interesting discussion of the topic if you posted your blog text here. There's even a button to make it easy, if you write your post in the forum first, to auto-copy it into your Moot blog.

These assume, of course, that you are interested in discussing the subject here and not simply driving readers to your blog. I see you already know what that's called.

 

[Timerover51]

I did a bit of thinking recently about some analogies for starports and how they interact with their worlds. I've got three of them, and you can read about them here at my blog.

And yes, I am blog-whoring!

If you want to get a discussion going, post it here.

 

[Enoki]

The problem with starports, IMHO, is that currently the model is for ones within the 3I. Outside the Imperium, the rules can change and change wildly, at least in my opinion.
The whole "starport authority" and autonomy of starports can vanish in a nanosecond. Some independent world or other polity can run theirs totally different from what the 3I does.

It is these models that really need addressing. For instance, I did some stuff with the Anubian Trade Collation on the edge of the Hinterworlds and Glimmerdrift Reaches sectors.

Their model is one of worries about smuggling and escape of their mostly semi-slave worker population. So, they often have little or no down port, and even when they do have one it is inaccessible to ships other than ones belonging to the ATC.
Instead, they have a high port only. Docking at it as a 'foreign flag' vessel means you are subject to a minute and invasive search of the ship on arriving and before leaving, along with serious restrictions on virtually everything.

The ATC government would prefer you don't dock at all, and in many cases will simply refuse permission. Instead, you are forced... forced... to use their tanker(s) to refuel in orbit, their small craft to unload and load passengers and cargo, and conduct all other business-- at a "reasonable" cost to you of course...

If you want to go down to the planet, you have to go to the high port, transfer ships and then take an ATC government owned ship down. There is normally no way you can take your "foreign" ship to the surface.

At all times, you are subject to scrutiny by the authorities. This varies with your economic and social status. Uniformed ship's officers, nobles, and those with economic means and connections get better treatment from difference to the authorities nearly groveling to please (in the case of nobles and the very rich).

Corporation ships and corporation employees are looked down on and even despised by the ATC where such entities are illegal. The norm is that a "responsible" businessman takes a personal stake and interest in their company and dealings. So, you show up on a corporate ship you get treated like something that you might step in and get on your shoe.

That's a whole different model than the 3I starport system. So, a world with a class C or D starport could easily be more of an A or B with the ATC, but simply classified the way it is because the ISS is applying 3I values to a very different system.

 

[Spenser TR]

Outside the Imperium, the rules can change and change wildly, at least in my opinion. ...

This is a great write up, and I'm definitely interested in different takes on how starports might work. A great thread.

 

[Timerover51]

One thing about the forum is that is gets me to thinking on what might be done using the Cepheus Engine for star port changes. My Out Rim sector has no planets that have a very high population, so the star ports have changed. There are no High Ports, as they are too expensive to build and too hard to defend. Unstreamlined ships have no choice but to land passengers and cargo by space lighters, unless the planet has a satellite which has a vacuum. Then you still have the cost of getting the passengers and cargo from the satellite to the planets. Passengers are not too bad, but cargo, especially a lot of cargo, is a major headache. The result is that most ships are streamlined.

Class A ports can build military ships, as well as civilian ships, in private building yards. They do require a population that is in the tens of millions, however. A naval base, not "Wet Navy", can build military ships as well, generally faster and cheaper, but will not build for private clients or other planets. The Naval Base can build at a slightly higher Tech Level than the civilian builders.

Class B ports can build civilian ships, but lack the expertise to build military ships. I should add that military ships are not just heavily armed civilian ships, but have some extra wrinkles. They also cannot build ships larger than a 1000 Traveller dTons, but can build one Tech Level higher than the planet's Tech Level if they import components. That does add to the cost.

Class C ports cannot build ships, but can supply refined fuel, and handle most repairs and annual maintenance. If a major repair is needed, then the necessary parts are imported. They do have reasonable accommodations for passengers and cargo, and will have a few brokers available. It might take more than a week to line up cargo and passengers however.

Class D star ports can supply unrefined fuel and small quantities of refined fuel if pressed. As they are frontier installations, do not expect to be in and out in a week. As for caterers to supply pre-packaged meals, forget it. Your Steward is going to have to know what and how to buy, and then prepare the food from scratch. Brokers are few and far between, so your Cargomaster is going to have to come up with the cargo to lift off with, as well as sell the cargo you brought in. I am working on the idea of a Trader's Guide to the Sector, giving hints as to what works and what does not.

Class E landing spots means that the Rim Scouts have put a beacon on a safe place to land, which has access to water. Beyond that, there may or may not be anything else there. If there is a small settlement there, they probably will not shoot on sight, but might not be exactly accommodating either. As for food and life support supplies, you are going to need to get creative, or have a ship designed for frontier trading, with the ability to carry a couple of months worth of life support supplies.

X Class star ports mean one of two things. Either the Rim Scouts have not gotten there yet, or at least one ship or crew went missing on the planet. Those are the really interesting ones, if you do not mind maybe dying. Now, recovering a Rim Scout derelict does get you a ship under the sector salvage rules, and the Rim Scout "Scouts" are not the typical Traveller ones. They run more like 200 to 400 dTons.

Note, this is what I am thinking of, but it is not cast in collapsium as yet, or even high-tensile strength steel. More like a good Edam or Gouda cheese.

 

[Condottiere]

If you have the parts, anyone could build or militarize a starwarship.

The difference likely is that the Aces are licensed ro do so, and it's easier to supervise and keep track of.

 

[Timerover51]

I should add that there is no over-riding Starport Authority in the sector, and that most star ports are controlled by the planets. There are a few controlled by the Rim Scouts, and run by them. On those planets, the law level of the star port and the planet can be different.

One thing different about military ships is that they have to be completely paid for before being allowed to leave.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

On star ports outside the imperium, I think your right in emphasising that the assumption of extraneity, and of some form of border between the port and the wider world.

I think this works in the context of the 3I, where the starports function almost as colonial outposts, but on a non 3i world that owns and runs its starport, the border might be effectively non-existent, or only apply to a smaller, pre-customs area of the port (like in modern airports).

On a world with a high law level and/or a xenophobic culture, the players may not even be allowed to land, but must conduct all business via transfers in orbit to local shuttles and such (like Enoki suggests). Some worlds may require all non-local traffic to use the Highport only, or spend several days sat in orbit on various customs inspections ( a good way to delay players in a system).


and, of coruse, the players have less ability to complain or react to arbitrary abuses of power by the local government. who are they going to turn to if the local tinpot dictator decides he wants to commandeer the players ship as a naval auxiliary and parks a patrol cruiser directly above their landing bay and a platoon of marines at the door?

 

[Enoki]

and, of coruse, the players have less ability to complain or react to arbitrary abuses of power by the local government. who are they going to turn to if the local tinpot dictator decides he wants to commandeer the players ship as a naval auxiliary and parks a patrol cruiser directly above their landing bay and a platoon of marines at the door?

Another scenario I've used outside the 3I is for the local customs officials to come aboard in orbit. They inspect the ship finding "irregularities" that have to be taken care of before they'll allow the ship to land. Fixing these involves variously giving up certain items to the local government such as high tech weapons, certain items of cargo or stuff that's just on the ship, and of course, a potential cash pay off of the officials (aka the mordita). Or, it could involve requirements that some systems, etc., on the ship be fixed (with the customs officials giving you the names of companies that can do the work).

Or, the local government officials insist that you use their vendors and services to load and unload cargo, passengers, etc. This might be gotten around (in one case) by the crew being either contracted or employees of a corporation / megacorporation that has local offices and is already on the in with the government.
I usually have a section of the starport that is a "customs hold" area where you can put stuff without inspection and fees beyond storage that either the local government doesn't trust you with or you don't want examined because it's going elsewhere. That gives you an out for questionable cargo. Yet another option is that some cargo might be "diplomatic" depending on the crew, passengers, or simply the cargo involved. This is generally allowed to go untouched provided it is in proper diplomatic containers, has the proper locks and seals, etc.

As for the local dictator... The crew / captain needs to be firmly aware of such possibilities before landing / docking, or even entering a system. I've had systems and even polities outside the 3I that variously hate, loathe, or take advantage of anything 3I simply because it suits them.

I've never done, for example, Vargr space but I'm sure the rules would be wildly different. I could see the K'Kree making having meat aboard your ship as cargo or simply food for the crew as a capital offense subject to imprisonment.

My view is this sort of stuff makes things more interesting and presents problems for a group to solve as they go.

 

[fantome]

I thought the above interesting as I'm currently considering starports and spaceports, and looked for threads to read through.

One situation in the Spinward Marches in the Travellerverse in which I'm playing which I thought may be an interesting spin in this thread was about Starports versus Spaceports.

The Planetary Government specify the location of the Imperial starport - to discourage random visitors and still use this for exports/imports for interstellar travel. it remains a Class E starport, AND the official Imperium starport. External starships/spaceships must land there and go through Imperium customs there.

Local business interests ( a mercenary company) have their own spaceport. It can't be the starport, as the planetary government along with the Imperium Starport Authority specify that is the Class E Starport above.

Though the business' spaceport, for all relevant considerations, is a much better equipped starport - say a Class D Starport standard for this argument - for refuelling its own ships with refined fuel, and for its cargo handling. And it could just as easily do this for other ships just as well for its own.

The technical capability for making repairs, along with appropriate personnel, has been established at this spaceport. Certainly the ability to manufacture all starship components would not be possible. But with stacks of spare parts should they not be able to make a whole range of repairs and perform maintenance of their own vessels? At least Hull and armour damage for which it is more likely their stock of supplies is more compatible with a general class of starships as well as spaceships.

There is I think a pdf document in COTI which relates starports and spaceports, which I've just failed to find. Perhaps the two together may be considered as part of the solution, though all worlds will not by any means have any spaceports.

 

[fantome]

I did eventually find the files which I had mentioned in my last post under Files.

As a pdf in TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > File Library > General -> Starports!

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=36991&highlight=starports

And another (apparently older taken ) version of the above in html format
TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > File Library > Miscellaneous -> Starport module catalog

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38602

 

[Timerover51]

Another scenario I've used outside the 3I is for the local customs officials to come aboard in orbit. They inspect the ship finding "irregularities" that have to be taken care of before they'll allow the ship to land. Fixing these involves variously giving up certain items to the local government such as high tech weapons, certain items of cargo or stuff that's just on the ship, and of course, a potential cash pay off of the officials (aka the mordita). Or, it could involve requirements that some systems, etc., on the ship be fixed (with the customs officials giving you the names of companies that can do the work).

Or, the local government officials insist that you use their vendors and services to load and unload cargo, passengers, etc. This might be gotten around (in one case) by the crew being either contracted or employees of a corporation / megacorporation that has local offices and is already on the in with the government.
I usually have a section of the starport that is a "customs hold" area where you can put stuff without inspection and fees beyond storage that either the local government doesn't trust you with or you don't want examined because it's going elsewhere. That gives you an out for questionable cargo. Yet another option is that some cargo might be "diplomatic" depending on the crew, passengers, or simply the cargo involved. This is generally allowed to go untouched provided it is in proper diplomatic containers, has the proper locks and seals, etc.

As for the local dictator... The crew / captain needs to be firmly aware of such possibilities before landing / docking, or even entering a system. I've had systems and even polities outside the 3I that variously hate, loathe, or take advantage of anything 3I simply because it suits them.

There is a pronounced bent in the forum to assume that all government officials can be bribed, while a lot of the forum assumes that illegal activities on the part of the characters are perfectly acceptable and will never be punished. Unfortunately, that has been assumed in some of the official Traveller materials that have been published.

What happens if the players run into some government officials who are not on the take, and do not tolerate criminal activities? The custom officials come on board and do find irregularities in the cargo manifest and ship. The players immediately attempt to bribe their way out, and instead of the officials taking the bribe, they arrest to player characters for attempted bribery, and haul them off to jail. The judge is not on the take either, and the government could not care less about Imperial currency, so locks up the players' characters for several years. The Game Master tells the players to roll up new characters as these will not be usable for several years, real time. The ship is impounded and sold at a Sheriff's Auction. The players learn a valuable lesson. Not everyone is a criminal.

I've never done, for example, Vargr space but I'm sure the rules would be wildly different. I could see the K'Kree making having meat aboard your ship as cargo or simply food for the crew as a capital offense subject to imprisonment.

My view is this sort of stuff makes things more interesting and presents problems for a group to solve as they go.

The K'kree would simply execute the whole crew and all passengers if the ship had meat onboard. End of characters. Roll new ones. Morale of the story: Do not try to trade with K'kree.

 

[Enoki]

There is a pronounced bent in the forum to assume that all government officials can be bribed, while a lot of the forum assumes that illegal activities on the part of the characters are perfectly acceptable and will never be punished. Unfortunately, that has been assumed in some of the official Traveller materials that have been published.

What happens if the players run into some government officials who are not on the take, and do not tolerate criminal activities? The custom officials come on board and do find irregularities in the cargo manifest and ship. The players immediately attempt to bribe their way out, and instead of the officials taking the bribe, they arrest to player characters for attempted bribery, and haul them off to jail. The judge is not on the take either, and the government could not care less about Imperial currency, so locks up the players' characters for several years. The Game Master tells the players to roll up new characters as these will not be usable for several years, real time. The ship is impounded and sold at a Sheriff's Auction. The players learn a valuable lesson. Not everyone is a criminal.

I see the propensity to be honest civil servants as a function of the type of government involved, the law level of the world, and importantly, the economic condition it is in.
As government tends towards massive bureaucracies or totalitarianism corruption increases. A very low or very high (say 3 or less, or 10 or more) will raise the likelihood of corruption. As for the economy, unless this world is economically well off (I have a home grown system for scoring that out giving a 1 to 10 value and the system comes out above a 5) there is an increasing likelihood of corruption.

The result of all that is that I'd guess somewhere around 75% of all systems are corrupt to some degree and somewhere around a third are very corrupt.

What gets players in trouble most of the time is they simply don't know how to properly bribe the officials. They lack the in-game skills for it so they do a sloppy job and get in trouble instead.

Good players might ask what the rules are / what to expect going to system xyz and would get information consistent with their available knowledge base on a ship's computer, plus any that one or more characters might possess on a reasonable basis.

So, if all you have is a basic ship's computer and database, without access to a TAS database or the equivalent, you get a bit more than the UWP. It's not up to me to do your homework...

 

[Timerover51]

I see the propensity to be honest civil servants as a function of the type of government involved, the law level of the world, and importantly, the economic condition it is in.
As government tends towards massive bureaucracies or totalitarianism corruption increases. A very low or very high (say 3 or less, or 10 or more) will raise the likelihood of corruption. As for the economy, unless this world is economically well off (I have a home grown system for scoring that out giving a 1 to 10 value and the system comes out above a 5) there is an increasing likelihood of corruption.

The result of all that is that I'd guess somewhere around 75% of all systems are corrupt to some degree and somewhere around a third are very corrupt.

What gets players in trouble most of the time is they simply don't know how to properly bribe the officials. They lack the in-game skills for it so they do a sloppy job and get in trouble instead.

Good players might ask what the rules are / what to expect going to system xyz and would get information consistent with their available knowledge base on a ship's computer, plus any that one or more characters might possess on a reasonable basis.

So, if all you have is a basic ship's computer and database, without access to a TAS database or the equivalent, you get a bit more than the UWP. It's not up to me to do your homework...

So, let me get the correct. You are supporting criminal activity on the part of your players. Yes or no?

 

[Enoki]

So, let me get the correct. You are supporting criminal activity on the part of your players. Yes or no?

No, I'm just putting in the potential for it. Ever visit Mexico? The Mordita is common there.

In many cases, think of this more as a tip than a bribe. You are paying for better and faster service. True criminal activity is a bit different.
If the crew is hauling what would be an illegal load of whatever to wherever, that's in a different category from getting the customs officials to not be overly picky about their legal stuff.

 

[Timerover51]

No, I'm just putting in the potential for it. Ever visit Mexico? The Mordita is common there.

In many cases, think of this more as a tip than a bribe. You are paying for better and faster service. True criminal activity is a bit different.
If the crew is hauling what would be an illegal load of whatever to wherever, that's in a different category from getting the customs officials to not be overly picky about their legal stuff.

I do not pay bribes in foreign countries. Have you ever had a friend or someone you know have to pay a bribe to simply bring in household goods and clothes following a fire? You are basically arguing that paying bribes are perfectly okay. I would suggest that you move to Chicago and find out how much they actually cost. How about having to pay a bribe just to get your mail delivered?

You are sugarcoating criminal activity. Period.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Non-Standard Starports

One of the fun things about creating the setting for my SBRD campaign was the freedom that I had to create starports, governments, and law levels that didn't exactly comply with the Imperial standards, bc at that point in history (The Long Night) there was no Imperium, and the data that a ship carried about worlds and ports that it might visit depended on 1) how recently a ship had visited the place and returned to tell about it; 2) how good and truthful that report might be; and 3) the quality of database the Captain was willing to buy (which I had in mind as an adventure element, but never got around to using).

[Ugh. I intended to provide several examples to illustrate what I mean, but my head is hurting too bad right now. Maybe tomorrow. ]

 

[Condottiere]

If it's a close group of ex government trained agents, bribing and grifting their way across the galaxy might be a lot easier, compared to a bunch of adventurers that bumped into each other in a local tavern, though their wider ranged skill set might come in more useful in any scenario.

Corruption might be far more prevalent in a spaceport, if starport employees are well paid by the Imperium, or in certain outsourced niche occupations.