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The Solomani plague

The usual explanation is that they had encountered diseases, but that the Terran ones were much more virulent than anything they had encountered before.

And likely a lot more numerous. The various Human offshoots probably all started with a similar set of immunities, then lost some and gained some on their various worlds due to both regular exposure and adaption and, in a few cases, due to Ancients action to prevent the loss of their servants to disease. 300,000 years later, the gradual mixing of these adapted groups would present a new disease here and there, but in general the adaption rate of the diseases would be slow.

Then along come the Terrans, who have been living in and adapting to the original stew in regions that were widely separated for most of their history. They don't bring one or two new bugs to the mix, but dozens or hundreds.
 
As a plausible counter, remember that unlike the ore-Columbian Americans, the Vilani would have access to advanced medical technology (life support, transfusions, temperature monitoring, etc) and tremendous resources to provide food, shelter, and other care for those who fell sick. In addition, thanks to automation, societies would be more resilient to a sudden drop in the active workforce. So the fatality rate from the Solomani plagues could be much lower than what occurred in Terran history.

Tossing in numbers, the pre-Columbian Americans had been biologically isolated for "only" 20-30kY but suffered 90% population loss in less than 100 years after contact. But many of those deaths may have been due to starvation and warfare c/o the inevitable societal collapse when, say, 50% of your workforce is incapacitated by disease, rather than disease itself.

My point is that IYTU it could play out any way you want. :)
 
My answer was aimed at the dairy digesters found in "live" yogurt: Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus.
Ever heard of Clostridium difficile, often called C. Diff? It's a gut infection that can be mildly irritating to disabling or even life-threatening. Know how it primarily occurs? When folks are on antibiotics. I had to be put on a powerful antibiotic once for a sinus infection, and the doctor advised me to eat "probiotic" foods to help prevent C. Diff. (I have friends with C. Diff., too.)

I only bring that up to point out that freaky things can happen if you introduce odd gut flora or if the right gut flora is taken away. It could have reactions well beyond our normal ones.

... and especially a cheese that smells like feet ...
Heh!
 
As a plausible counter, remember that unlike the ore-Columbian Americans, the Vilani would have access to advanced medical technology (life support, transfusions, temperature monitoring, etc) and tremendous resources to provide food, shelter, and other care for those who fell sick. In addition, thanks to automation, societies would be more resilient to a sudden drop in the active workforce. So the fatality rate from the Solomani plagues could be much lower than what occurred in Terran history.

Tossing in numbers, the pre-Columbian Americans had been biologically isolated for "only" 20-30kY but suffered 90% population loss in less than 100 years after contact. But many of those deaths may have been due to starvation and warfare c/o the inevitable societal collapse when, say, 50% of your workforce is incapacitated by disease, rather than disease itself.

My point is that IYTU it could play out any way you want. :)

^This; even if their medical technology lagged behind Earth's, it would still be fairly advanced, unlike the indigenous Americans or Classical era people during the Julian plague.
 
... even if their medical technology lagged behind Earth's, it would still be fairly advanced, unlike the indigenous Americans or Classical era people during the Julian plague.

No doubt. Now think about the culture implied by the statement, "...even surgery was largely freed from the danger of infection."

(Leave aside for a moment the fact that the statement carries with it a certain lack of knowledge of disease: some of the more serious surgical infections arise from organisms living in the human gut, on human skin, or in the human nose, which is why doctors mask and wash up - although, I guess it's possible the Ancients made efforts to sanitize their transportees, in which case things could be far worse than we imagined.)

The Vilani've encountered disease: they almost surely have a few of their own circulating about and some idea of how to deal with them. They probably have an understanding of epidemiology: humans are the primary disease vector, so dealing with spread between humans is a big part of their disease program. Human diseases resulting from poor sanitation will be a possibility in any human society, so they'll have a knowledge of those and how to prevent them. However, infectious disease is uncommon: infectious disease experts will therefore be rare. Physicians will have a basic school-taught knowledge of infectious disease and infectious disease process, but their practices wll have little experience of them. And, the Vilani are famously conservative.

A flu pandemic will come on them like the Spanish Flu epidemic - it will spread fast and hit hard. Because these are people with no previous exposure, it may run much like the Spanish Flu did, hitting the healthiest folk the hardest. For Spanish Flu, the killer was not the bug but the immune system response to it: those with the healthiest immune systems drowned in their own phlegm as the body reacted to the buggie, while the elderly and infirm tended to have a higher survival rate.

In a culture known for its conservatism, the Vilani medical community will have to hunker down and figure out why it's happening, then develop strategies to ameliorate symptoms, to diagnose and treat the new diseases, and to interrupt their spread. The real challenge isn't treatment. It's epidemiology: figuring out how the bug spreads, finding ways to interrupt that spread, and convincing health care providers and the general public to adopt those ways.

As the disease spreads beyond a certain point, tech will become less relevant because there will simply not be enough of it to treat all the affected people, so the crucial factor will be how quickly they can persuade a conservative culture to adopt such basic things as quarantine and the importance of wearing a mask while caring for an infected person.

And they're going to have to do that while the buggie sweeps preferentially through their own medical community, since the first place the sick folk will go will be to their doctors and hospitals.

The real threats are not likely to be the classical threats. Even if Terra has not conquered the classical threats by then, odds are good it's not about to allow people to ship out who are infected with those diseases. The real threats are likely to be things the Terrans consider benign, innocuous, or too much trouble to eradicate. Candida Albicans: been around millions of years - could it have changed so much that a population 300,000 years removed from the Terran strain might be vulnerable to painful thrush? (Or vice versa?)Salmonella: it's been around for millions of years, but the Ancients are unlikely to have take it with them, and the planetary origin of a particular host might make little difference to the buggie - some Terran starts up a chicken ranch, eggs get eaten by a local predator, predator takes a poop, salmonella starts working its way through the food chain and preparing suprises for the locals.
 
"The Imperial Standard Technology is at an early TL7 level for biotechnology and most areas of medical science. Through trial and error, the Vilani have developed advanced surgical techniques, including the ability to perform safe blood transfusions and some major-organ transplants. Their understanding of biochemistry is primitive, and they have not discovered the structure or role of DNA" - GURPS Interstellar Wars p.160

The TL Reference is in GURPS 4th edition terms.
TL6 – is 1880AD +
TL7 – is 1940AD +
TL8 – is 1980AD +

So everyone here can understand just how primitive they are in the med fields. They also can make pacemakers and auxiliary lenses for eyes. The next page describes their great knowledge of pharmaceuticals due to access to thousands of worlds however. Makes me curious as to how they learned the effects of the the drugs they take.
 
Mind you, the moment the Terrans discoved the Vilani had no defence against 'common' ailmets, it would have opened up a huge opportunity for bioweapons. Load up a warhead with a concentrated culture of Rotavirus and drop onto a Vilani base/world. And when half their troops and most of the population is incapacitated by explosive diarrhoea, your troops (who are vaccinated or naturally immunised) move in.

And let the Vilani know if they get casual with dropping nuclear weapons on cities/planets, the Terrans will get casual with what they put in their bioweapons (say measels, mumps, flu....).
 
Interesting discussion on the effect of Solamani virus on the Vilani, but I think you should also consider the reverse. What effect did Vilani viruses have on the Solamani.
 
It rather destroys the verisimilitude, to say that the Vilani did not have staph and other beneficial bacteria on their skin; imo the Ancients had to have lifted the whole Earth biome to maintain isomer conformation.
 
Mind you, the moment the Terrans discoved the Vilani had no defence against 'common' ailmets, it would have opened up a huge opportunity for bioweapons. Load up a warhead with a concentrated culture of Rotavirus and drop onto a Vilani base/world. And when half their troops and most of the population is incapacitated by explosive diarrhoea, your troops (who are vaccinated or naturally immunised) move in.

It would indeed, but according to IW the Terrans didn't go that way. Whatever infections occurred were accidental and the Terran Confederation made strenuous efforts to combat them -- something that help a lot when it came to capturing the hearts and minds of the Vilani whose worlds they invaded.


Hans
 
Interesting discussion on the effect of Solamani virus on the Vilani, but I think you should also consider the reverse. What effect did Vilani viruses have on the Solamani.

Most likely minimal. Key difference is Solomani medical science is accustomed to dealing with new viruses popping up - it's a reality of life on Terra. Once they realized they were facing genetic cousins from a distant star, they'd have implemented quarantine periods and other measures to watch for new diseases. If something did show up, they'd have tools developed from a long history of fighting disease to apply to studying and mastering the new virus.

The Vilani on the other hand would have to learn how to do things that Solomani science already knew how to do - and the Vilani would be handicapped in that effort by their native conservatism: they're inclined to pursue slow, systemic methods of researching the problem rather than thinking outside the box or taking a chance on new ideas. Try to imagine a Vilani reaction to the idea of using a weakened virus to stimulate the immune system to develop immunity to the healthy virus. Protecting someone from illness by intentionally making them sick? It would be a long and difficult effort coming up with enough evidence to persuade Vilani medical leaders to approve human trials for something like that.
 
... imo the Ancients had to have lifted the whole Earth biome to maintain isomer conformation.

Why?

Canon makes it clear that the Vilani in particular had to deal with some pretty significant obstacles as a result of the Ancients NOT lifting the whole Earth biome (or any significant fraction of it) and putting it on Vland along with their human pets.

I don't think there's any idea that the Ancients stripped their human subjects of all native bacteria. However, on Earth a fair portion of bacterial evolution involves diseases hopping from nonhuman hosts to human hosts, or hopping from human hosts to non-human hosts and back. The Vilani developed an entire class, an entire science, around the need to make the local flora and fauna digestible and adequately nutritious for humans. The implication from the description of the Vilani is that any infectious diseases they harbored likewise faced significant challenges hopping to nonhuman hosts, and that infectious diseases harbored by the local fauna had as much trouble making a "meal" of Vilani as the Vilani had making a meal of the local fauna. The result would be that Vilani diseases for the most part were diseases they were already accustomed to seeing and already had a healthy resistance to.
 
It would indeed, but according to IW the Terrans didn't go that way. Whatever infections occurred were accidental and the Terran Confederation made strenuous efforts to combat them -- something that help a lot when it came to capturing the hearts and minds of the Vilani whose worlds they invaded.

And what are de sources for IW :devil:?

I ask because the Solomani are not known for the accuracy of their history books when there is something that might be shameful for them (e.g. the Gene Wars).

Personally, I find hard to believe that the Terrans, fighting a giant many times their size and ressources, didn't ressort to biowar once discovered they have a major advantage on it (one of the few advantages they had).

Probably not lethal biowar (they needn't to resort to that), but common cold, flu, measles, etc (mostly debilitating but not lethal) would fit them quite well to reduce the defenses on a planet, invade it on the peack of the outbreak, and be the saviors of the population with their medical advantage.

Of course, that's nothig to write in the books, where it is better just to write that the Terrans helped the liberated populations with the diseases that had "naturally" spread on the Vilani retreat...

Done forget history books are written by the victor.
 
Why?

Canon makes it clear that the Vilani in particular had to deal with some pretty significant obstacles as a result of the Ancients NOT lifting the whole Earth biome (or any significant fraction of it) and putting it on Vland along with their human pets.

You keep some pets in a terrarium ...

Canon also states in the solomani hypothesis that there were wrong leads due to there being zoo planets. For all we know, the Vilani could be descended from clone servitors of an ancient's ship that took refuge there. But the why is still conformation in chemistry for the most part, fancy fermentation techniques will not change that fact.
 
You keep some pets in a terrarium ...

Canon also states in the solomani hypothesis that there were wrong leads due to there being zoo planets. For all we know, the Vilani could be descended from clone servitors of an ancient's ship that took refuge there. But the why is still conformation in chemistry for the most part, fancy fermentation techniques will not change that fact.

Real life shows us that diseases developed in separate habitats (in casu Old World and New World) can be of significantly different number and virulence. The Amerindians got several virulent diseases from Europe; the Europeans got one, and there's even a theory that syphilis didn't come from the New World at all. So I don't see anything unlikely about Earth having developed more and worse diseases than any of the Ancients' terrariums had.


Hans
 
It's about food sources; and for as far as diseases, replaying what happened in the Americas is highly unimaginative and versimilitude breaking.
 
It's about food sources; and for as far as diseases, replaying what happened in the Americas is highly unimaginative and versimilitude breaking.

Assumptions and logic can be argued about. Opinions one must simply agree or disagree with. I disagree with this particular opinion of yours.


Hans
 
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