David Johansen
SOC-12
Another thing: at the subsector level the main reason higher tech fleets move faster is that they have faster scouts and couriers. This lets them spend less time scouting around to figure out where to go next.
The Rebellion
- Thread starter LeperColony
- Start date
I dunno, sounds like maybe you should just play this like Risk, with some minor production mechanic. Push a handful of "ships" from Map Space X to Map Space Y, and roll some dice to see who wins.
The Rebellion was basically 6 years from start to collapse. A 1 year turn I think is just too high level, and loses the flavor that I think is unique to the Traveller universe.
Mind, I appreciate that the scope is large.
The Rebellion was basically 6 years from start to collapse. A 1 year turn I think is just too high level, and loses the flavor that I think is unique to the Traveller universe.
Mind, I appreciate that the scope is large.
David Johansen
SOC-12
The thing I see is that a simple game with options might be able to satisfy the play in six minutes and the play in six years people.
For instance you could break the movement phase down like this:
Plot Movement this could be done with order cards or actual written orders and the game could support both. But Reconnaissance and Courier fleets are also plotted.
Move all units simultaneously, one subsector at a time.
Reconnaissance and Courier units in subsectors an enemy enters allow one subsector of movement for friendly fleets one subsector away to be re-plotted.
Reveal Replotted movement and reveal simultaneously.
More could also be done with the basic movement phase as well.
I do, very much want Dulinor to need to flee from Core in the first turn. It's just an iconic part of the story.
For instance you could break the movement phase down like this:
Plot Movement this could be done with order cards or actual written orders and the game could support both. But Reconnaissance and Courier fleets are also plotted.
Move all units simultaneously, one subsector at a time.
Reconnaissance and Courier units in subsectors an enemy enters allow one subsector of movement for friendly fleets one subsector away to be re-plotted.
Reveal Replotted movement and reveal simultaneously.
More could also be done with the basic movement phase as well.
I do, very much want Dulinor to need to flee from Core in the first turn. It's just an iconic part of the story.
captnchuck
SOC-8
One thing you all overlooked
The base Jspeed of the Imp fleet is 4. So that is the base for all Imp level forces. There are smaller variation but that is for local fleets and specialist fleets,ie Strike.
If you look at Sector Navy you get a good layout of what is in each Sector/Subsector. To do Armies/Marines is a little trickier as there never was canon on what levels the Army was kept at TL wise unless you use GURPS.
ground forces are tricky you have :Imp,local,Merc,Noble and Company forces. Plus pirates lol.
Naval is Imp,Colonial,Merc(not that much or large ship so),Company,Noble.
The base Jspeed of the Imp fleet is 4. So that is the base for all Imp level forces. There are smaller variation but that is for local fleets and specialist fleets,ie Strike.
If you look at Sector Navy you get a good layout of what is in each Sector/Subsector. To do Armies/Marines is a little trickier as there never was canon on what levels the Army was kept at TL wise unless you use GURPS.
ground forces are tricky you have :Imp,local,Merc,Noble and Company forces. Plus pirates lol.
Naval is Imp,Colonial,Merc(not that much or large ship so),Company,Noble.
Expected Armies Sizes and Strengths and how to compute them were provided in Rebellion Sourcebook pg 36-39 under "The Armies of the Imperium".
captnchuck
SOC-8
True that is planetary forces but not the Imperial forces,separate as well as the Marines. As I am retired sort of and have a lot of time to fill. I was going to do a FFW type game on the Solomoni Rim area during the Rebellion.
I quote from the great Chris Thrash in order, hopefully, to assist you or at least give you something to work with:
Imperial army forces in FFW (including mercenaries) initially number 10% (198 vs. 1968 battalions) of the colonial army strength, not including battalions less than tech level 5 (JTAS #10, p. 25). Assuming this is typical, the Imperial Army amounts to between 130 and 260 battalions per subsector; average 200 battalions. This accords well with the estimate of Imperial Navy assault squadrons, above (one per three subsectors, with a capacity of 600 battalions).
(You can find his full analysis of Imperial military forces at https://www.prismnet.com/~thrash/milforce.html)
Note that the original tables you want for working out colonial armies and planetary armies are in JTAS Number 10 (I think they are reproduced in T4 Imperial Squadrons and (in a GURPS TL form) in GT Ground Forces). They may be elsewhere.
And also note, this all assumes no population modifiers as per CT. If you want to go down the path of using pop modifiers you'll have vastly bigger forces.
PS.
In FFW there are also
Imperial Marines = 40 battalions
huscarles = 6 battalions
Apologies for any confusion.
Imperial army forces in FFW (including mercenaries) initially number 10% (198 vs. 1968 battalions) of the colonial army strength, not including battalions less than tech level 5 (JTAS #10, p. 25). Assuming this is typical, the Imperial Army amounts to between 130 and 260 battalions per subsector; average 200 battalions. This accords well with the estimate of Imperial Navy assault squadrons, above (one per three subsectors, with a capacity of 600 battalions).
(You can find his full analysis of Imperial military forces at https://www.prismnet.com/~thrash/milforce.html)
Note that the original tables you want for working out colonial armies and planetary armies are in JTAS Number 10 (I think they are reproduced in T4 Imperial Squadrons and (in a GURPS TL form) in GT Ground Forces). They may be elsewhere.
And also note, this all assumes no population modifiers as per CT. If you want to go down the path of using pop modifiers you'll have vastly bigger forces.
PS.
In FFW there are also
Imperial Marines = 40 battalions
huscarles = 6 battalions
Apologies for any confusion.
Only about 5x as high.
It's worth noting that the 4518th is the only huscarles unit used separately in the FFW game. Others can be safely presumed partially merged (with the other part retained for palace and perosnal guards) into the colonial forces...
It's also worth noting that other sources say that the 4518th is the largest huscarles unit in the Domain.
It's certainly not the largest in the imperium, as one of the archdukes has a 7 world polity as personal fief...
If you want to keep all differences in such a Rebellion game, I wish you luck. IMHO, the scope of the game forbids it, and more abstract units must be used.
So, even less Imperial Army presence should be expected in a more paceful sector (and more so if it's not frontier, as SM is)...
And of all of those imperial units, 120 battalions (the 1c army and the 20-14 merc division) are in special counter-insurgency mission in Efate, and I guess they would not be there if the insurgency was not.
So, even less Imperial Army presence should be expected in a more paceful sector (and more so if it's not frontier, as SM is)...
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captnchuck
SOC-8
I seem to recall an ArchDuke having 7 regiments of Imperial Marines has his Household Troops, but that might just be an exception to the rule!:coffeesip:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I believe the Imperium Navy allocates one regiment of five thousand plus Marines per subsector.
captnchuck
SOC-8
Did a counter inventory of FFW. Only about 50% of the Batrons are J4.
So what is pulling the rest down? Looks like the Imperial navy is not living up to the standard they set.
So what is pulling the rest down? Looks like the Imperial navy is not living up to the standard they set.
captnchuck
SOC-8
The one thing I think that they messed up in FFW especially with the Hi-Pop worlds is PD units. There should be return fire from the surface to space,especially from Hi-Pop High tech worlds. That needs to be factored in.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I always assumed the SDB factor of such worlds also included planetary based weapons.
I guess they don't, as
- you cannot bomb a planet nor land troops on it (jump troops excluded) as long as there are active SDB
- the SDB cannot attack the landing troops, as PDs should
- SDB can attack the squadrons even if they are not bombing (and so, I guess close to) the planet.
So, I understand the SDB factors being the planetary non-jump fleet (be them SDBs proper or monitors), but not the fixed planetary defenses.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Which could also represent still active planetary defences still being able to counter a landing
Except you have to neutralise all the SDBs (and planetary defences under my abstraction) so it is a moot point.
Just as planetary defensive fire could.
Fair enough we differ in our abstraction, but none of your points convince me since they can all be countered.
The last point I gave implied that a fleet cannot avoid the SDBs, as it could with PD (just keeping itself far enough).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
SDBs only come into play during the interface combat phase...
captnchuck
SOC-8
I am debating for my Sol rim game using either Path of Tears or T4 Pocket Empires/Imperial Fleets combined with Sector/Grand Fleet along with the GURPS stuff to crated it. I am not going to do the entire Rebellion to start,just the Sol Rim. Maybe once I get this Sector down I might expand. I really think FFW messed up ,I do not think they included PD units in the world data.
I had to review the rules, as it's many years since I played it.
Rules say that if the squadorns do not attack, they cannot participate in further combat, so it seems you're right, but then it says that if the SDBs are active combat procedes as normal. I guess they forgot to specify the SDBs status is only relevant if the squadrons attack...
But then, what it lacks is the possibility of using your SDBs to deny wilderness GG refuelling...
Rules say that if the squadorns do not attack, they cannot participate in further combat, so it seems you're right, but then it says that if the SDBs are active combat procedes as normal. I guess they forgot to specify the SDBs status is only relevant if the squadrons attack...
But then, what it lacks is the possibility of using your SDBs to deny wilderness GG refuelling...
