The Rebellion and World War One?

[alanb]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
the similarities in Dulinor's escape from the palace to that of Lt Windhook right down to the comandeering of an air raft right before the lockdown and the number of naval officers aboard it.

As in, was it the same air/raft? Yeah I've noticed that one. It undoubtedly was.

I'm not exactly sure what it means... It might be a total coincidence, or it might, perhaps, suggest that Lucan was telling the truth!

That would be amusing, although it wouldn't change what Lucan turned out when he was on the throne.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
the similarities in Dulinor's escape from the palace to that of Lt Windhook right down to the comandeering of an air raft right before the lockdown and the number of naval officers aboard it.

As in, was it the same air/raft? Yeah I've noticed that one. It undoubtedly was.

I'm not exactly sure what it means... It might be a total coincidence, or it might, perhaps, suggest that Lucan was telling the truth!

That would be amusing, although it wouldn't change what Lucan turned out when he was on the throne.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:


Well, I guess that that would actually have made the decapitation strategy a bit more viable, if GDW had been interested in making it work. But they weren't.

But then to make it up to Dulinor, they give him a miraculous escape - the RS shows the 1st Fleet posted in the same subsector as Capital, and specifically states that "Fleets 309, 310, 311, and 312 are also at Capital."

No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:


Well, I guess that that would actually have made the decapitation strategy a bit more viable, if GDW had been interested in making it work. But they weren't.

But then to make it up to Dulinor, they give him a miraculous escape - the RS shows the 1st Fleet posted in the same subsector as Capital, and specifically states that "Fleets 309, 310, 311, and 312 are also at Capital."

No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:


Well, I guess that that would actually have made the decapitation strategy a bit more viable, if GDW had been interested in making it work. But they weren't.

But then to make it up to Dulinor, they give him a miraculous escape - the RS shows the 1st Fleet posted in the same subsector as Capital, and specifically states that "Fleets 309, 310, 311, and 312 are also at Capital."

No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

 

[kaladorn]

You know, when things go haywire, often times information flow is seriously impeded, making subordinates likely to not act. If Dulinor was busy beating feet and possibly the legal successor to Strephon, the Navy might not *dare* to risk stopping him. I mean, if a naval officer fails to know who to take orders from, that's less bad than taking an order that wasn't lawful (maybe).

Anyway, I think another interesting result would be Dulinor cleaning house, then dying himself. Then things get really interesting...

 

[kaladorn]

You know, when things go haywire, often times information flow is seriously impeded, making subordinates likely to not act. If Dulinor was busy beating feet and possibly the legal successor to Strephon, the Navy might not *dare* to risk stopping him. I mean, if a naval officer fails to know who to take orders from, that's less bad than taking an order that wasn't lawful (maybe).

Anyway, I think another interesting result would be Dulinor cleaning house, then dying himself. Then things get really interesting...

 

[kaladorn]

You know, when things go haywire, often times information flow is seriously impeded, making subordinates likely to not act. If Dulinor was busy beating feet and possibly the legal successor to Strephon, the Navy might not *dare* to risk stopping him. I mean, if a naval officer fails to know who to take orders from, that's less bad than taking an order that wasn't lawful (maybe).

Anyway, I think another interesting result would be Dulinor cleaning house, then dying himself. Then things get really interesting...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

1. They had no orders to stop him.
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.
3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

1. They had no orders to stop him.
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.
3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
No wonder Lucan couldn't crush this guy with the Navy, he can get his one ship past elements of five different fleets...

1. They had no orders to stop him.
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.
3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:
1. They had no orders to stop him.

True, but you'd think after they noticed that the palace had not in fact been locked down an hour or so later, someone would have thought to stop all ships departing the system before the assassin was gone for good.

2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.

3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

Not in the parking lot, no. But I hear they painted parts of the asteroid belt white to denote the loading and unloading zones, while the part they painted red is for use by emergency fleets only.

Seriously, Capital is probably one of the busiest systems in known space. If Standing Procedure is that ships are limited to one of a few vectors and they are intercepted if not on those vectors, that cuts down the volume you have to patrol. [Kinda like police giving traffic tickets to the people in the Hummer driving across the farmer's field.] They have parts of five fleets in system, it shouldn't be that difficult to have a large contingent on traffic control duty.

The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:
1. They had no orders to stop him.

True, but you'd think after they noticed that the palace had not in fact been locked down an hour or so later, someone would have thought to stop all ships departing the system before the assassin was gone for good.

2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.

3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

Not in the parking lot, no. But I hear they painted parts of the asteroid belt white to denote the loading and unloading zones, while the part they painted red is for use by emergency fleets only.

Seriously, Capital is probably one of the busiest systems in known space. If Standing Procedure is that ships are limited to one of a few vectors and they are intercepted if not on those vectors, that cuts down the volume you have to patrol. [Kinda like police giving traffic tickets to the people in the Hummer driving across the farmer's field.] They have parts of five fleets in system, it shouldn't be that difficult to have a large contingent on traffic control duty.

The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by alanb:
1. They had no orders to stop him.

True, but you'd think after they noticed that the palace had not in fact been locked down an hour or so later, someone would have thought to stop all ships departing the system before the assassin was gone for good.

2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.

3. Space is big. The fleet wasn't exactly hanging out in the parking lot outside the Palace. Relatively few vessels would have been in a position to interact with his ship.

Not in the parking lot, no. But I hear they painted parts of the asteroid belt white to denote the loading and unloading zones, while the part they painted red is for use by emergency fleets only.

Seriously, Capital is probably one of the busiest systems in known space. If Standing Procedure is that ships are limited to one of a few vectors and they are intercepted if not on those vectors, that cuts down the volume you have to patrol. [Kinda like police giving traffic tickets to the people in the Hummer driving across the farmer's field.] They have parts of five fleets in system, it shouldn't be that difficult to have a large contingent on traffic control duty.

The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

Certainly. But in this case it was within the plausible foul up range, IMHO.

The more serious problem was that Dulinor seems to have counted on this kind of confusion as part of his plot.

Disorganisation is fine. Reliance on disorganisation is carelessness.

But then, who cares, really. If it's a good story, it works.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

Certainly. But in this case it was within the plausible foul up range, IMHO.

The more serious problem was that Dulinor seems to have counted on this kind of confusion as part of his plot.

Disorganisation is fine. Reliance on disorganisation is carelessness.

But then, who cares, really. If it's a good story, it works.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
The story of the assasination was a means to an end - the Shattered Imperium and the excuse for the new rules revision that was MegaTraveller. I love GDW's stuff, but if you start thinking too hard, a few of the details start to unravel.

Certainly. But in this case it was within the plausible foul up range, IMHO.

The more serious problem was that Dulinor seems to have counted on this kind of confusion as part of his plot.

Disorganisation is fine. Reliance on disorganisation is carelessness.

But then, who cares, really. If it's a good story, it works.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Okay, someone shot the Prime Minister! Stop everyone from leaving Ottawa! (especially as it looks like a civil war might break out here and all of a sudden nukes could be deployed by the clashing factions...).

Hmm, I think not. Especially when any spacer outside the 100D limit (or less if he's gutsy) can throw on his jump drive and *go*.

I think the attempt to close the fist would just result in you squeezing out the water or sand... it would just encourage more departures.

"Oh no, the military is locking things down... are they going to impound my ship? Argh! My precious and perishable cargo! I've got to get out of here!"

I think the volume of traffic at Capital is so high that the five fleets are a small spec beside it. Sure, they have concentration and power, but when you are trying to stop ships looking for a small group or a particular ship (esp when it might have spoofing tech and not look on sensors like itself), you're pretty much into needle-in-haystack territory.

I mean, for all we know, 1 fleet was off-rotation for maintenance, another two were out patrolling the outer system, and the remaining two just didn't have enough information to know who to catch, where he'd be, etc. (Or even who was loyal to whom onboard the ships....)

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Okay, someone shot the Prime Minister! Stop everyone from leaving Ottawa! (especially as it looks like a civil war might break out here and all of a sudden nukes could be deployed by the clashing factions...).

Hmm, I think not. Especially when any spacer outside the 100D limit (or less if he's gutsy) can throw on his jump drive and *go*.

I think the attempt to close the fist would just result in you squeezing out the water or sand... it would just encourage more departures.

"Oh no, the military is locking things down... are they going to impound my ship? Argh! My precious and perishable cargo! I've got to get out of here!"

I think the volume of traffic at Capital is so high that the five fleets are a small spec beside it. Sure, they have concentration and power, but when you are trying to stop ships looking for a small group or a particular ship (esp when it might have spoofing tech and not look on sensors like itself), you're pretty much into needle-in-haystack territory.

I mean, for all we know, 1 fleet was off-rotation for maintenance, another two were out patrolling the outer system, and the remaining two just didn't have enough information to know who to catch, where he'd be, etc. (Or even who was loyal to whom onboard the ships....)

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2. His ship would have been broadcasting legitimate Naval codes. There was no reason to stop him, given 1.

Again true, but there *should* have been a reason to stop all traffic from leaving the system, as listed above.
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Okay, someone shot the Prime Minister! Stop everyone from leaving Ottawa! (especially as it looks like a civil war might break out here and all of a sudden nukes could be deployed by the clashing factions...).

Hmm, I think not. Especially when any spacer outside the 100D limit (or less if he's gutsy) can throw on his jump drive and *go*.

I think the attempt to close the fist would just result in you squeezing out the water or sand... it would just encourage more departures.

"Oh no, the military is locking things down... are they going to impound my ship? Argh! My precious and perishable cargo! I've got to get out of here!"

I think the volume of traffic at Capital is so high that the five fleets are a small spec beside it. Sure, they have concentration and power, but when you are trying to stop ships looking for a small group or a particular ship (esp when it might have spoofing tech and not look on sensors like itself), you're pretty much into needle-in-haystack territory.

I mean, for all we know, 1 fleet was off-rotation for maintenance, another two were out patrolling the outer system, and the remaining two just didn't have enough information to know who to catch, where he'd be, etc. (Or even who was loyal to whom onboard the ships....)

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships.