The Lost Entropic Wars

[jatay3]

Both Behind the Claw and Sword Worlds only mention a few of the times the Darrians and Swordies fought with each other. These are always several generations apart and if those were the only wars they would be no more than par for the course between neighboring Humaniti.
Why are the Swordies and the Darrians considered uniquely fated foes, so much so that they have fraternization clubs(the Altikrigarnir)where the Darrian Aslan and Swordies drink beer(Lambic Reds no doubt)and tell war-stories between wars. The Altikrigarnir even have customs for the beginning of hostilities as if it is assumed that it will happen again.
Have there perhaps been Entropic wars we don't know of yet? Enough to explain why they have been able to become ingrained in the local culture?
Perhaps one can even be made up for a campaign.

 

[pauldrye]

Good question. One possibility is that the Darrians and the Sword Worlds were all there were in the Spinward Marches in the Early Days -- the Zhodani and the Imperium came along several hundred years later.

Even though it never came to war, the Swordies have always viewed the Darrians as potential enemies: note the way they deliberately colonized the best worlds around Gram right away in an attempt to keep the Darrians from getting to them first.

In the case of the Altikrigarnir, that's mostly because the Aslan and Swordic soldiers have a more similar mindset than any other pair involved in the fighting. Being on opposite sides notwithstanding, they understand and like each other, and naturally become friends when weapons are put away.

That said, there's canon and there's what you want to do with your campaign. If you think you can do something interesting with extra wars in there, do it.

 

[jatay3]

Another reason is that the Swordies always seem to lose. Besides the fact that I have a liking for the Swordies(Sword Worlds was my favorite of the series and I wish it was longer), having them win would add variety. It would also sort of reduce the paradox of having macho, macho warriors who lose every time(though they have a good excuse as they are obviously outclassed: they bear a distinct resemblance to Rocky Balboa when they fight).

 

[jatay3]

(though they have a good excuse as they are obviously outclassed: they bear a distinct resemblance to Rocky Balboa when they fight).
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except that their officers hide them behind civilians : not very honourable you know.

 

[jwdh71]

In Behind the Claw, there is a brief mention of the continued animosity between the Swordies and the Darrians, basically it boiled down to the fact that the typical attitude of one society is the functional equivalent of insanity in the other. They will have a very hard time ever being at peace for very long, unless the Darrians get tired of the Swordies and decide to "end the problem", once and for all.

 

[jatay3]

I now realize why the Swordies keep attacking. It is probably because of some obscure past greviance that no one but the Swordies remember. Or perhaps they regard others as intruders into the subsector.
But one reason is that once they have made alliance with the Zhos they can't leave. They can't make themselves neutral without worrying about whether the Darrians will, as you put it "end the problem". So they are in something of a catch-22.
Also in a state that has dangers of instability, they probably regard the Darrians and Impies as a "safety-valve"

 

[daryen]

The way I see it, the conflict between the Swords and Darrians is based on these three items:
- Vastly different cultures.
- Economic competition.
- Entrope.

With their vastly different cultures, the only way for the to find any common ground would require a lot of work on both sides. Since there is nothing driving them to find that common ground, neither side wants to make the effort.

For some reason, both sides view the Imperium as the major market with which they must work. As a result, they compete with each other to secure deals with the Imperium. (I have no idea why the Swords can't just make deals with the Zhodani, but that doesn't seem much of an option. Go figure.)

Entrope is a massive hi-tech industrial powerhouse. With it, the Darrians are with in range of the Swords' industrial capacity. Without it, the Darrians are completely eclipsed by the industrial capacity of the Swords. Consequently, it is viewed as vitally important by the Darrians, and a critical resource to deny by the Swords.

Finally, how many wars do you want? The Darrians and Swords have fought each other in each of the five Frontier Wars, and in a separate war in 788. That is six major (for them) wars within the span of under 600 years.

And I am sure there are plenty of minor dustups that happen whenever a GM deems them necessary.

 

[jatay3]

Finally, how many wars do you want? The Darrians and Swords have fought each other in each of the five Frontier Wars, and in a separate war in 788. That is six major (for them) wars within the span of under 600 years.
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That is my point that is not very many.
Between 1600 and 1700 the British fought the Dutch thrice(first second and third Dutch wars-precise if not imaginative).
Between 1700-1820 the British fought the French in

Spanish Succession

Jenkin's Ear(story behind the name is grusome, look it up if it interests you and you don't already know)

Seven Years

American Independance

French Revoulutionary-Napoleanic


They had a some ideological greviance with the French-in the last war they were too revoulutionary, in the first three they were not revoulutionary enough and in American Independandce it of course flowed from the war in America.

They had no ideological greviance toward the Dutch

They had little cultural animosity toward either. They of course regarded the French as an inferior life form but they regarded all who were not English as inferior life forms.

The English were not unusually millitaristic for the time. They were just a little above average in the bellicosity scale.

That is my point: the Swordies and Darrians fight no more than one would expect from the geographical arrangment. Humanati have a tendency to fight and only one war a century is bordering on idealic.

However it is probably true that the Swordie-Darrian border is a perpetual "hot frontier"

 

[jatay3]

Two things I am curious about.
One Enos is listed as an "Imperial World" in Behind the Claw. In Sword Worlds it is described roughly as "SWC but falling under Imperial influence"

Another thing I have mentioned somewhere before but am still curious about. The Swordies in BTW are described with a considerable amount of disdain-more than any other group ever mentioned in the whole series. In "Sword Worlds" they are obviously imperfect but at least reasonably likable. The description in Sword Worlds is an obvious matter of course. But what explains BTW? Was the book written by an Imperial employee with a Darrian wife perhaps?

 

[daryen]

In GT, Enos is part of the Sword Worlds. Consider it unpublished errata for BtW.

To really know what the reason for the attitude about the Sword Worlds in BtW, you might just ask MJD. He wrote it, after all.

I would assume that there are varying views the Imperials have of the Sword Worlders. JTAS 18 showed the more evenhanded approach, and BtC shows the more hostile approach.

I do want to point out that as negative as BtC is toward them, for a true "hatchet job" take a look at the Regency Sourcebook sometime. That is condensending AND hostile! (The color quotes are great!)

GT:Sword Worlds is going to be far more sympathetic as it is written more from their point of view than any other.