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Terran Trade Authority is to be resurrected

Originally posted by Hatrax:
Sorry, but B.S. The "reality" you cite is the reality of the last fifteen to twenty years, specifically after "cyberpunk" hit the fan and splashed everything with its depressing, soul-sucking guts.
Hatrax,

Dial it back some, skippy. My not liking Foss' artwork isn't going to effect your bottom line.

I'm not suggesting TTA needs to become 'cyberpunk'. I'm not suggesting TTA needs to be anything. All I said was that I didn't like Foss' art and explained why.


Have fun,
Bill
 
Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
I just don't like Foss' illustrations or the illustrations of his imitators. That's all. I didn't like them when I first saw them and I don't like them 30 years on. They look stupid, they looked 'forced', they looked deliberately weird simply for weird's sake. The ships might as well belong the to Thunderbirds.
And so you felt the urge to come on a thread about something you clearly don't like and get all dismissive and derisive about it... why? Oh wait, that's what you always do anyway. Heaven forbid that you just clam up and go read and answer something else after all, rather than soil this thread with your usual bile.

Oh yeah, and way to go with that art major sideswipe. I'm sure that'll make you more friends. :rolleyes:

Seriously Bill, try thinking before you engage those fingers and start typing.
file_28.gif
 
Having been, just a couple weeks ago, rereading the TTA Starliners, It ISN'T remembering... it's that I love it.

The TTA was compelling... and I hope that the new material covers even the pseudonymous works.

I love the Sentinel Major.

To be honest, tho', the TTA books were not the strongest influence upon My Traveller Universe. They did, however, inspire my youth. The ones that really hooked me were the one on Liners, the one on wrecks, and the one on "unexplained phenomena"... specifically the vampyric cats....

Cawely/Caldwell was a genius.

Now, if only the universe of "A Tour of the Galaxy" were being redone with modern techniques... I'm still fond of the tale of Caroline Luranski and Leo Scott and their "winning the lottery" to cover Luranski's spy mission to the Aurora-Magellan Federation.

Me, I don't like Foss' works... and I definitely don't think they fit my conceptions of Traveller... too big... But Caldwell wove a good tale, with lots to read into it... it was one of the settings I longed to play as a child, but stuck with Star Wars and Star Trek as that's all the neighbor kids could get into.

But I still have, somewhere, all my caldwell/cawley TTA books.

Is the writing up to par? From the Sentinel, it looks good so far... time to go crawl the site....
 
Ships with murals along the sides? Oh yes! I love this idea. It's a great idea for an Aslan or K'Kree tradition. Basically the mural is a visual account of the ship's history and is added to on a regular basis like cave paintings.

The more I look at some of the Foss style work in TTA (ironically none of which is by Foss) the more I am liking the colourful paint schemes. It's something that Jesse DeGraffe does really well and that's paint jobs for his space ships. I will always like tarnished panels with worn edges and rust and lubricant streaks, but there's no reason those battered hulls can't also be brightly painted.

I never heard of the TTA until this thread but I was familiar with the similar DeFates Hardware and 'Tour of the Galaxy'? Oh MAN! that takes me back. I remember stealing that from the school library. I think I still have it somewhere.

Crow
 
Originally posted by Scarecrow:

I never heard of the TTA until this thread but I was familiar with the similar DeFates Hardware and 'Tour of the Galaxy'? Oh MAN! that takes me back. I remember stealing that from the school library. I think I still have it somewhere.
Never heard of the Terran Trade Authority? Are you from a strange alternate universe?


Starviking
 
Heh, no I just... well... I just never heard of it. Don't know how. I'm 36 so it's not like I'm too young. Some things just slip under the radar I guess.


Crow
 
Art Major? I guess that's me. I don't just do 3D stuff, but I paint landscapes, still life and interior scenes in a sorta rennaiscance/Dutch style, using acrylic on board. I sell quite a few too, and have just received a commission for 10 paintings. I studied art history too. I earned my right to say what I say the hard way.
I can't understand why having brightly painted or beautiful ships is such a problem. Wind back to WWII. You'd think this era would just produce practical, serviceable aeroplanes that merely fulfilled an operational requirement. And yet we have some beautiful aircraft... who can say that the P51 wasn't beautiful, or the B-17, or the Spitfire, and yet they were made purely as 'tools'. And look how they painted them - look at the German ME-109's with bright yellow noses, the nose art of the bombers, the pale blue hi-alt reconnaisance aircraft, and the B-24 Liberators that were painted as formation lead aircaft, spots and stripes in every conceivable colour! Battleships painted with mad zigzag patterns, I could go on with example after example, but you get the picture. Of course they accumulate a patina with use, and it's good to depict this too.

We don't live an world designed by beaurocrats, engineers and accountants. Hands up anyone who wants to live in that world?! It's already been tried, in Eastern Europe, where I just happen to live. It's a crushing, soul-destroying, oppressive, grey, bleak, inhuman experience. How did that experiment turn out, BTW?
There's every indication that the future won't be that way either. Witness the design of the computer - must it always be a soulless beige box, designed down to a cost? No - we have visionaries like Johnathon Ives at Apple, producing luscious designs that inspire the users, and the imitators. No loss of function - there's no reason not to have great design AND function. It's a human thing... why else would car manufacturers plough gazillions of dollars into designing cars?

Rant mode off...
 
Hatrax,
Dial it back some, skippy. My not liking Foss' artwork isn't going to effect your bottom line.
Bill,
You're the one who came on and started the debate. Am I allowed to answer your posts, or should I simply curl up and sit in the corner like a good little boy?

I find it strange that you're using Chris Foss as an example for your dislike, as well. Chris Foss's art appears nowhere in Spacecraft: 2000 to 2100 AD. In fact, I don't believe that any of his work appears in any of the four books.

You are entitled to whatever opinion you wish, of course. Just don't expect to come on and talk about art without someone having the opposite opinion.

And Bill... if I gave two craps about my bottom line, I'd be an investment banker or an oil company exec rather than a freelance writer!
 
Originally posted by Starviking:
Sure!

Next you'll be telling me Traveler is spelt with two 'els'.
Well, naturally, I'm British and we spell properly. Actually that said, I'm surprised we don't spell Traveller with two F's and silent Q!

Crow
 
Correct on the TTA/Chris Foss thing... there seems to be a belief that his pics appear somewhere in the books, but as far as I can tell, the don't. (You'll find the names of all the artists next to the pictures in the books). Could this be the first appearance of a TTA myth?
Scarecrow - sorry you didn't get the TTA on it's first pass, but it's great to have you on board this time!
BTW, I've seen some of the advanced drafts of the writing, and it's spooked me right out. It's as if there were a bunch of pages in the books that I'd never seen before... there's some serious, serious talent at work here. I can't make any comment from an RPG point of view, but from a TTA purist, it's seamless.
 
Originally posted by Hatrax:
You're the one who came on and started the debate. Am I allowed to answer your posts, or should I simply curl up and sit in the corner like a good little boy?
Hatrax,

I started it? Score a laugh point. Try reading the thread without jerking your knee.

I read the thread, read that TTA was being released, and read how much people loved the Foss ans Foss-style artwork. I wrote that I didn't care for the artwork, explained why I didn't care much for the artwork, and then wrote: Best of luck with the relaunch. Nostalgia usually sells very well, look at Traveller!.

Pretty simple right? "Sorry don't like the art, this is why, and good luck it should sell well."

What do I get in return?

Adrian starts quoting Jodorowsky at me, you call my opinion bullshit, and you both seem to think I don't want the TTA re-release to succeed.

My 'taste' in art is likened to "... the degenerate and cold offspring of present day American automobiles and submarines, the very antithesis of art... Not giant refrigerators, transistorised and riveted hulks; bloated with imperialism, pillage, arrogance and eunochoid science... (Adrian's post) and 'blamed' on ... "cyberpunk" hit the fan and splashed everything with its depressing, soul-sucking guts. There's no reason why the architecture, ship designs, etc. of the future have to be functionalist, Bauhausian, any-color-so-long-as-it's-gray... (your post).

Yet its all my fault? Right, sure it is.

Let me try again.

I don't care for Foss' art or Foss-style art. I find it unrealistic and deliberately weird. I'm sure the TTA re-release will sell well. Good luck.

Did it get through that time?


Bill
 
Hatrax,
I started it?
Yes. You did. Folks were having a discussion about the TTA. Then, you showed up and gave your opinion. I gave mine in return.

I've been nothing but polite. Note that none of my invective was directed at you, personally.

Normal people who disagreed would then read my opinion and counter it, perhaps by explaining some of the details of WHY they don't like Chris Foss-style art and WHY they think that the designs are "un-realistic".

So, are you up to it? Or should we simply be in awe of your opinions and wander off, muttering to ourselves? You seem to want to argue, so argue your point, already.

On a serious note, thanks for your well-wishes. Expanding a well-loved series is always a bit of a perilous journey, and we appreciate the support. I hope that you might find a copy in your local bookstore and give it a whirl, anyway.
Take it easy.
 
"There's every indication that the future won't be that way either. Witness the design of the computer - must it always be a soulless beige box, designed down to a cost? No - we have visionaries like Johnathon Ives at Apple, producing luscious designs that inspire the users, and the imitators. No loss of function - there's no reason not to have great design AND function."

I give you...the Apple Spaceways iRocket:

irocket.jpg
 
^The iRocket is a spiffy design but I can’t get my Imperial Standard “predict-1” program to load or work properly. There is no right button on the user interface thing?

No windows either . . .how am I supposed to establish scale without windows? (get it “no windows” HA!)
 
Originally posted by Hatrax:
I've been nothing but polite. Note that none of my invective was directed at you, personally.
Hatrax,

You do realize your post is stiil there for everyone to read? Let me quote it:

Sorry, but B.S.

That's polite?

Normal people who disagreed would then read my opinion and counter it, perhaps by explaining some of the details of WHY they don't like Chris Foss-style art and WHY they think that the designs are "un-realistic".
'Normal' people huh? By way of explaining their preferences, 'normal' people would post something like TTA stuff looked silly or the sci-fi equivalent of leisure suits, mood rings, disco shoes, and mounds of blow-dried hair or I find functioning, rational, designs far more pleasing than deliberately 'whimsical' eye candy complete with oversized 'lobster claws' and tiger stripes. or They look stupid, they looked 'forced', they looked deliberately weird simply for weird's sake. or something like that, right?

Wait a minute... that's what I posted...

I said I didn't care for the art, I explained why, and I wished the re-release all the luck. I didn't expect my opinion to be held in awe, far from it. However, I didn't expect to have an art critic's quote thrown back at me, I didn't epect to be told my preferences are 'imperialism, pillage, arrogance and eunochoid science', or that they are 'Sorry, but B.S.', or anything else.

Good luck with TTA.


Bill
 
No Bill.

You didn't JUST say "sorry, I don't like it, best of luck though". You ALSO posted a big rant about how you think it looks stupid, forced, that it's the scifi equivalent of 70s kitsch, that most art is "bupkis", art majors are for people who are scared of maths, that nobody believes that ships will look like that "foss crap" (since when do you speak for everyone?) and so on. And you wonder why people get offended at what you say? And of course, it's not the first time that you've responded that way - I wonder why you keep failing to understand how your responses rile people up.

In other words, you took what would have been a reasonable response and buried it under your usual bile. "Sorry, but BS" is in no way any excuse for you to turn on the derision and vitriol. On top of that you're generally disrespectful with the newcomners too just because you disagree with them.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions about art, but you don't get to insult people because they throw "art critics quotes" at you. If you don't expect to be told what your preferences are (which you weren't, but never mind) then maybe you shouldn't be telling people that their preferences are "the sci-fi equivalent of leisure suits, mood rings, disco shoes, and mounds of blow-dried hair" too.

Thing is, Adrian and Hatrax haven't insulted you at all. No way could anything they say here be taken as a personal attack. Yet you respond with blanket statements, insults and derision yourself and have the gall to claim that you didn't start it?

You don't like the art. Fine, we got that the first time without your vitriolic embellishments. So how about you stop threadcrapping and go read something else?
 
Originally posted by TempMal:
You didn't JUST say "sorry, I don't like it, best of luck though".
Mal,

Oddly enough, that's exactly what I did. Here's my first post:

Blecch. Blecch and Yecch. When it first came out, the TTA stuff looked silly to even my late teenaged eyes. It is the sci-fi equivalent of leisure suits, mood rings, disco shoes, and mounds of blow-dried hair. I'm surprised one of the books wasn't titled KC and the Sunshine Band go to Mars.

TTA isn't my cuppa. Some people love it but I suspect that is because they're remembering it and not seeing it.

Best of luck with the relaunch. Nostalgia usually sells very well, look at Traveller!



The rant came after Adrian and Hatrax responded with the art critic quote and the 'Sorry, that's B.S.' remark.


Have fun,
Bill
 
Funny, that first post of yours reads exactly like a derisive rant to me. You just proved my point quite nicely.

First off you start off making "yuk!" noises. Then you compare it to everything naff about the 70s. Then you compare it to a naff band (apologise to any KC fans out of there ;) ). Then you imply that anyone who likes it is probably just deluding themselves. And then after all that you say "best of luck"?

Given all that I think Adrian's and Hatrax' responses were entirely justified.

Believe it or not, it is quite possible to say you don't like something without being derisive or insinuating things about other peoples' tastes or opinions.

But get the point here, Bill. Nobody needs to know and nobody even really cares for the colourful adjectives you insist on using to embellish your opinon of something. It's completely unnecessary and just gives the impression that you're a hateful old git who spends all his time sneering at things you don't like. Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't, but either way you'd think you would have learned by now that this doesn't impress anyone.
 
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