Technology & Progression

[RossWinn]

One if the issues with Traveller's technology system is the lack of efficiency and progression. As an example, Vacc suits in Traveller rarely get lighter, less expensive, or add additional features. This true of pretty much all components, equipment, and weapons. There is no systematic way to reduce cost, weight, or manufacturing time. There is no benefit to additional capabilities and if there are they are always more expensive.

I do recall in the old days a supplement or article that discussed technological progression of vacc suits, and that may have been DGP. There was even a modular build system for custom vacc suits in CT JTAS.

Should components and equipment get lighter, cost less, or add capabilities. Not just vacc suits as an example, but all technology?

Just one man's opinion, but I thought it would be a neat discussion.

Best regards.

 

[Rupert]

Vacc suits are not a good example of this.

In LBB1-3 they start at TL=8 and 10kg and drop 2kg per TL. MegaTraveller has a whole range of them and of PLSS that become more capable, easier to use, and lighter with TL. This carries over into TNE. MgT does this as well.

 

[RossWinn]

Vacc suits are not a good example of this.

In LBB1-3 they start at TL=8 and 10kg and drop 2kg per TL. MegaTraveller has a whole range of them and of PLSS that become more capable, easier to use, and lighter with TL. This carries over into TNE. MgT does this as well.

Okay, but is there a unified system for the progression of prices and efficiency for Mongoose Traveller 2e?

 

[coliver988]

Okay, but is there a unified system for the progression of prices and efficiency for Mongoose Traveller 2e?

I'd have to look as it has been a while but I don't recall one. Though I do have a Vacc suit PDF that does give different versions at differnt tech levels. No idea where I got it, and cannot share (years ago I shared another resource that I could not attribute and got into a bit of trouble. I don't like trouble It may have been on Drive-Thru )

One thing you could use is the QREBS (https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/QREBS) and high tech levls could increase the quality, reliability, ease of use and safety and reduce the burden as it goes up in TL. Those rules can really be applied to any game system IMO.

edit: and this was linked on the discussions page and explains it better than I could: https://www.freelancetraveller.com/...LP4FGZWRU-x_yWRNywP-2druBo5kRGWE1mLGLP8gfIqXc

 

[RossWinn]

Yeah, the versions thing makes the issue more, and not less. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[McPerth]

This true of pretty much all components, equipment, and weapons.

From LBB4: Mercenary, page 43, under Notes on Prices and Tech Levels:

In general, prices will tend to drop by 5-15% at each tech level after the level of introduction of an item,

 

[RossWinn]

From LBB4: Mercenary, page 43, under Notes on Prices and Tech Levels:

Yes, and that was 12 editions ago. I was wondering if anyone had a modern codified system.

 

[McPerth]

Yes, and that was 12 editions ago. I was wondering if anyone had a modern codified system.

Oh, sorry. Somehow I though you were asking for CT...

 

[coliver988]

I poked a bit, and this is the vacc suit PDF I have: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/107458/vacc-suit nothing in there beyond TL-9 hard suits, so not really pertinent to the conversation about increasing tech and how it effects cost, ability, and so forth. Somewhere I am pretty sure I have another article or something that does give a technical overview at different TLs. It may be in a Freelance Traveller article. If not, that is probably a good place to write one up. Maybe I'll give that a try sometime.

 

[atpollard]

Handguns could use some "love" in codifying progression. We know REAL handguns progressed from "ball and patch" Flintlocks at TL 3 (1700-1860) to Black Powder Revolvers/Lever-action Carbines at TL 4 (1860-1900) to Semi-auto smokeless powder at TL 5 (1900-1940) ... and we have Traveller "caseless" ammo and Gygoc (rocket) ammo and Gauss ammo and Lasers and Plasma Beams and Fusion Beams as TLs progress. However, the Tech Progression is a little fuzzy as a hierarchy in the way TL 3-5 was a clear evolution of new technology replacing older technology because it was better.

Traveller posits handheld weapons (swords & axes) in the Far Future, but they are even more in need of some Tech Level Progression "love". Yes, new tech types exist, but there is no sense of a "progression" and "swords" as a social custom in common use for "officers and gentlemen" to settle matters of Honor.

IMTU, I had a need for Computers to play a more important role, so I established a TL progression for COMM and COMP technology from TL 5 to TL 15 using equivalent models (Comp /1 to Comp /9) and size reductions from room-size to Comp-dot.

 

[Condottiere]

Should be fascinating to encounter a technological level six highly technologized black powder revolver.

 

[JimCook]

Should be fascinating to encounter a technological level six highly technologized black powder revolver.

Reproductions of cap and ball black powder revolves are popular today. In general they are more reliable and better quality materials. The actual functionality remains the same as you are trying to replicate the earlier weapon.

It is also interesting to note that legally, in many jurisdictions, these are not consider firearms. In the USA purchasing a modern handgun requires appearing in person at a federally licensed firearms dealer, filling out transfer paper work, and passing a background check. In contrast a replica 1851 navy cap and ball black powder revolver can be ordered online and delivered to house.

Many modern firearms were originally black powder. Lever action rifles started with metallic cartridges filled with black powder. later smokeless powder became the norm. Unfortunately people sometimes damage older firearms and injure themselves when they use a modern cartridge with smokeless powder instead of black powder. Smokeless powder produces higher pressures and burst the action of firearm.

However the best example of high tech black powder firearms are modern back powder hunting rifles. Many places have special hunting seasons for primitive weapons, usually defined a bow and arrow or black powder rifles. The modern black powder rife is breach loading, has a solid black powder propellent stick, uses a conical bullet with a plastic sabot, and has a variable power optical scope.

 

[Condottiere]

Technically, caseless.

Substitute Minie ball.

Better gunpowder.

Better material science; file it under health and safety.

Somewhat period accurate.

 

[mike wightman]

You mean something like this?

 

[McPerth]

Technically, caseless.

Substitute Minie ball.

Better gunpoder.

Better material science; file it under health and safety.

Somewhat period accurate.

You forgot: lighter (important in many larger weapons)

 

[McPerth]

Also, from MgT1E CB, page 91 sidebar:

Retrotech: A higher TL society may produce a lower rated TL system for a reduced cost and weight. Any system may be built at any TL below the society’s current level (but not below the optimum TL for the model). Each reduced level halves the cost and weight of the basic model.

For example, an advanced TL 10 society want to produce TL 7 Computer/0 models for sale to less advanced worlds. These computers could weigh as little as 1.25 kg and would cost 6 Credits each-

(Bold is original)

Not specified if the ships' computers may benefit of those lower costs...

 

[Condottiere]

It's more about pulling the wool over the enforcer's eyes.

We can improve weapons immeasurably, using better and lighter materials, improved ergonomics, and so on.

They see you pulling out what seems like a period piece, if replicated, they might underestimate it's actual performance.

 

[Dragoner]

New equals better is something inherited from consumer electronics. Breech loading, cartridge using, rifled guns have existed since the 16th century, they only became more common in the 19th due to practices such as interchangeable parts. Some things might never change, a TL 8 bolt might be the best it ever will be in it's application. One can make a vacc suit lighter, though having a list of a thousand different vacc suits is sort of blah.

 

[bookwyrm]

Not specified if the ships' computers may benefit of those lower costs...

T20 has 2 charts, one that reduces the space taken up by some computer parts due to miniaturization up to 4 TL's or reduced cost due to industrialization up to 3 TL's. (THB p. 228 & 229)

I've recently been using the cost reduction for ship computers for customized ships. In Traveller, especially the Imperium, you have TL 12 traders with TL 5 or 6 mod 1 or 2 computers, which you pay full price for. If you want a customized TL 12 ship with a TL 12 mod 2 computer, you can get a discount on the computer. I didn't want to change the ship computer sizes, as I feel that's part of what makes it Traveller.