T5 Trader program request

[Spartan159]

Please, I would like to request a program or website that can look up a planet on TravellerMap and calculate Cargo IDs/Cost and then use a destination to calculate sale price values. Even better would be something that details the cargo from the charts on T5.09 pg 484 and 485.

People in our group do not want any hint of accountants in space and to be honest, I'm not even sure trading in T5 is worth the headache. If I could look up trade values quickly it would go a long way to keeping things running smoothly.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to an iOS device, Windows10 and Android are all I have at the moment.

If something workable can/has been done on a spreadsheet I do have Office 2007 and can try to figure it out.

Regards

Spartan159

 

[OjnoTheRed]

No guarantee of timeline, but I think it would be straightforward to add to the T5 World Builder (see link in my signature). It already brings in the data from travellermap.com.

 

[coliver988]

Oddly enough I am working on something that may fit the bill.

The blog site is here for where it is at (moving slowly at the moment but the basic stuff is there): https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/

I have an older install, but I can update it with the current build, and if you set your Win10 machine to allow side loading, it should work (I installed on a tablet from the installer and it seems okay).

Let me know - the old install is a couple months old and missing some functionality since added. I also really need a kick in the pants to start moving on this again...and feedback from a user is useful.

Edit: It is mostly CT version that is supported, and I've not actually done the T5 version yet but the framework is there. So this may give me the impetus to do that part. Sorry - after posting I realized you were asking for T5 specifically. Give me a few hours & it can be added, I just need to find time!

 

[Spartan159]

No guarantee of timeline, but I think it would be straightforward to add to the T5 World Builder (see link in my signature). It already brings in the data from travellermap.com.

Awesome! That would rock!

Oddly enough I am working on something that may fit the bill.

The blog site is here for where it is at (moving slowly at the moment but the basic stuff is there): https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/

I have an older install, but I can update it with the current build, and if you set your Win10 machine to allow side loading, it should work (I installed on a tablet from the installer and it seems okay).

Let me know - the old install is a couple months old and missing some functionality since added. I also really need a kick in the pants to start moving on this again...and feedback from a user is useful.

Edit: It is mostly CT version that is supported, and I've not actually done the T5 version yet but the framework is there. So this may give me the impetus to do that part. Sorry - after posting I realized you were asking for T5 specifically. Give me a few hours & it can be added, I just need to find time!

Thanks! I don't know anything about side loading but google is my (sometimes) friend.

 

[egor045]

Please, I would like to request a program or website that can look up a planet on TravellerMap and calculate Cargo IDs/Cost and then use a destination to calculate sale price values. Even better would be something that details the cargo from the charts on T5.09 pg 484 and 485.

People in our group do not want any hint of accountants in space and to be honest, I'm not even sure trading in T5 is worth the headache. If I could look up trade values quickly it would go a long way to keeping things running smoothly.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to an iOS device, Windows10 and Android are all I have at the moment.

If something workable can/has been done on a spreadsheet I do have Office 2007 and can try to figure it out.

Regards

Spartan159

Jumping on the bandwagon, I've been working on APIs and tools to make my life easier (including T5 cargogen). I've put together a spartan web front-end to it at a personal web site http://www.trav.phraction.org/t5/cargogen. Unfortunately you'll have to type the UWPs yourself - I didn't get to research the API for TravellerMap to integrate it.

The APIs are a work in progress - I'll post something to the Software Solutions forum once I have some documentation written up. I'll be adding pages to the web front end as APIs solidify. I also plan to put together some CLI tools (using Python).

 

[Original_Carl]

People in our group do not want any hint of accountants in space and to be honest, I'm not even sure trading in T5 is worth the headache. If I could look up trade values quickly it would go a long way to keeping things running smoothly.

If I may be so bold, Spartan159, I agree with your suspicions and I don't think trading in T5 is worth the trouble. In the end, the big factor is Tech Level difference between source and destination. A negative relationship (higher TL at destination) will result in a loss, while a positive one will result in a profit.

I would be tempted to use a "What is this random space cargo?" generator -- either the one in the book or something from a Google search -- for exposition purposes and handle the profit/loss as a "difficult" skill roll for Trader + INT, then use a Fibonacci progression to determine how much profit/loss. For example:

Result +/-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Profit/Loss %	1	2	3	5	8	13	21

Modify the final profit/loss % by Flux for additional randomness, and then get back to the adventure.

Good luck!

 

[Spartan159]

Jumping on the bandwagon, I've been working on APIs and tools to make my life easier (including T5 cargogen). I've put together a spartan web front-end to it at a personal web site http://www.trav.phraction.org/t5/cargogen. Unfortunately you'll have to type the UWPs yourself - I didn't get to research the API for TravellerMap to integrate it.

The APIs are a work in progress - I'll post something to the Software Solutions forum once I have some documentation written up. I'll be adding pages to the web front end as APIs solidify. I also plan to put together some CLI tools (using Python).

I can work with this, but the sale prices looked off. I tested with Jewell (A777999-C) to Louzy (D422A88-8) and came up with the same cost manually, but the Sale price came out to Cr 8,400.

I calculated it as 5000 +1000 (Hi to Hi) +2000 (In to Hi, In) +TL Mod (12-8 = 4x10%x8000 = +3200) for a total of Cr 11,200

I tried Louzy (D422A88-8) to Mongo (C652998-7) and again, calculated the same cost, but the sale price shown was Cr 5,500.

I calculated it as 5000 +1000 (Hi to Hi) +1000 (In to Hi) +TL Mod (8-7 = 1x10%x7000 = +700) for a total of Cr 7,700.

Am I calculating it wrong?

 

[Spartan159]

If I may be so bold, Spartan159, I agree with your suspicions and I don't think trading in T5 is worth the trouble. In the end, the big factor is Tech Level difference between source and destination. A negative relationship (higher TL at destination) will result in a loss, while a positive one will result in a profit.

I would be tempted to use a "What is this random space cargo?" generator -- either the one in the book or something from a Google search -- for exposition purposes and handle the profit/loss as a "difficult" skill roll for Trader + INT, then use a Fibonacci progression to determine how much profit/loss. For example:

Result +/-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Profit/Loss %	1	2	3	5	8	13	21

Modify the final profit/loss % by Flux for additional randomness, and then get back to the adventure.

Good luck!

I can see the difference between TL 5 computers and TL 15 computers, but what is the difference between raw materials such as wood or ore?

 

[egor045]

I can work with this, but the sale prices looked off. I tested with Jewell (A777999-C) to Louzy (D422A88-8) and came up with the same cost manually, but the Sale price came out to Cr 8,400.

I calculated it as 5000 +1000 (Hi to Hi) +2000 (In to Hi, In) +TL Mod (12-8 = 4x10%x8000 = +3200) for a total of Cr 11,200

I tried Louzy (D422A88-8) to Mongo (C652998-7) and again, calculated the same cost, but the sale price shown was Cr 5,500.

I calculated it as 5000 +1000 (Hi to Hi) +1000 (In to Hi) +TL Mod (8-7 = 1x10%x7000 = +700) for a total of Cr 7,700.

Am I calculating it wrong?

Nope. Error is on my part. I was looking up market trade classification instead of source trade classification when calculating the sale price. It looks like this didn't show up in my test cases.

Jewell->Louzy gives me a sale price of Cr 11200.

I get Cr 6600 for Louzy->Mongo.
Base price: Cr 5000
Hi to Hi: +Cr 1000
In to Hi: +Cr 1000
Po to Hi: -Cr 1000
TL mod: -Cr 6000 * 10%
Sale price: Cr 6600.

I've pushed an updated API - it should give correct results now.

Thanks for spotting this - a second set of eyes is a good thing.

 

[Spartan159]

Nope. Error is on my part. I was looking up market trade classification instead of source trade classification when calculating the sale price. It looks like this didn't show up in my test cases.

Jewell->Louzy gives me a sale price of Cr 11200.

I get Cr 6600 for Louzy->Mongo.
Base price: Cr 5000
Hi to Hi: +Cr 1000
In to Hi: +Cr 1000
Po to Hi: -Cr 1000
TL mod: -Cr 6000 * 10%
Sale price: Cr 6600.

I've pushed an updated API - it should give correct results now.

Thanks for spotting this - a second set of eyes is a good thing.

No problem, I totally missed the Po to Hi modifier for Louzy to Mongo. Many thanks!

 

[robject]

I've got the guts of a T5 trader program here:

https://github.com/bobbyjim/Trader

 

[Original_Carl]

I can see the difference between TL 5 computers and TL 15 computers, but what is the difference between raw materials such as wood or ore?

If you want to add complexity, assume no TL variance for raw materials. TL1 Iron Ore is probably worth the same as TL21 Iron Ore.

All that really matters for trade purposes is what you bought it for and what you can sell it for. What it is, how it's used, who might want it, etc. are just exposition.

Everyone's game is different, and they all work (or don't work) for their own reasons. In my own experience, if you have a "no space accountants" game, unless the cargo is the maguffin, there's little to be gained by dwelling on it. The game will bog down around how much more they'd get if they waited for a day or maybe they could find another broker to sell it to, or hey-what's-in-these-crates-anyway-that's-so-valuable. Roll some dice, hand out the profits (or the loss) and get on with the adventure.

If the cargo is the maguffin -- that's an entirely different deal.

I hope this give you some ideas for different ways to handle trade and commerce than cooking up a spreadsheet -- which is fine! You just don't have to do it that way.

 

[Timerover51]

I can see the difference between TL 5 computers and TL 15 computers, but what is the difference between raw materials such as wood or ore?

From the sound of the discussion, I would say that for your purposes, there should be no difference in raw materials such as wood or ore, However, if your players are engaged in speculative trading, I cannot see how you can avoid the "space accountants", as some have described it, problem. You cannot have it both ways.

Personally, as a former logistics officer, see signature, I have no problem with the speculative trade issue, but I establish in advance what is the most likely item or items for a planet to be exporting for profit, and what is the most likely item or items a planet would be importing for a potential trading profit. Not every planet will be exporting every item on a list.

I have one planet, which was terraformed by the Ancients to resemble North America of about 300,000 (I have a very good source book on the subject to work from). The planet has a low population, in the thousands, and has a contract with a trader to export goods to a high population, fairly high tech level, arid planet. Aside from gold bullion (the planet is metal-rich), silver, and nearly pure copper nodules, the main exports are smoked salmon, aromatic cedar wood (the aroma of the cedar is an extremely effective insect repellant on the arid world), wood in general (the oak shipping pallets are highly valued for conversion into items of furniture on the arid planet, which has a shortage of wood0, glacial water (a luxury beverage), and mammoth and mastodon ivory. The profit margin is quite high on all of the items. Sundry other agricultural items are sold in small quantities to the restaurants and hotels at and near the spaceport. The trader receives a flat 10% on the cargo of metal and mixed copper-silver ore. The crew of the Wandering Minstrel is quite happy with the situation, but that is not the driver of the story, which is something quite different. But it does give the main protagonist the option of doing some speculative trading as well as his constabulary trading contract.

 

[pendragonman]

I can see the difference between TL 5 computers and TL 15 computers, but what is the difference between raw materials such as wood or ore?

Method and speed of harvesting and purifying.

Industrial uses will want it harvested and purified as cheaply as possible.

Artists and boutique craftspersons will want it as near "traditionally acquired" as possible.

Since ACS ships aren't going to carry the loads for industry usually, then tech level matters for the "old school" manner of acquisition and purifying.

Example: How many of you have purchased an industrially manufactured set of dinnerware? (plate, bowls, cups and saucers) Everydayware is cheap on a per plate price.

Now go price getting this from a craft person who throws their own pottery.

 

[Spartan159]

egor045, I was using your tool this last Thursday, Mar 8th, 2018, and it was working fine, but now the website is giving me a 502 bad gateway error message.

 

[AsenRG]

If I may be so bold, Spartan159, I agree with your suspicions and I don't think trading in T5 is worth the trouble. In the end, the big factor is Tech Level difference between source and destination. A negative relationship (higher TL at destination) will result in a loss, while a positive one will result in a profit.

Why? Because there's never market for hand-made stuff from distant places?

 

[egor045]

egor045, I was using your tool this last Thursday, Mar 8th, 2018, and it was working fine, but now the website is giving me a 502 bad gateway error message.

The site had an automation glitch (all die, oh the embarrassment). Fixed now, with checks to ensure that issue won't reoccur. Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

[Original_Carl]

Why? Because there's never market for hand-made stuff from distant places?

No. That's just how the rules are written.

 

[Spartan159]

The site had an automation glitch (all die, oh the embarrassment). Fixed now, with checks to ensure that issue won't reoccur. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Many thanks!

 

[robject]

Egor, is your project on GitHub?

Let's collaborate. My trader code is at https://github.com/bobbyjim/Trader, and allows the player to navigate through Joshua Bell's API, generating passenger and trade data per the T5 Core Rules.