T5 Range Bands

[Supplement Four]

OK, here's something that I really, really dig about T5. There's A LOT of work put into the use of Range Bands.

Sure, Range Bands showed up in CT. But this...this is Range Bands on steroids. And, man, used properly, they can be a Ref's best friend.

What Range Bands do is give a typical distance that is good enough for play, and they keep you from having to count squares or hexes for range as you would do in most other rpgs.

It's really a cool concept. And, this is one topic where T5 excels.

There's an entire chapter devoted to Range Bands, 11 pages long, complete with a few pages of very useful charts. And, when I say "very useful", I'm talking about making your game flow easier.

What's in those 11 pages? You've got a Distance and Range Band Chart, then some introductory information about Range Bands. I love the part about "Sub-Bands" because they illustrate how flexible the Range Band system can be. If a Band is too big, then just divide it up!

Next, you've got instructions for using the various charts, followed by the charts.





Chart 1 gives you Range Bands and info that you will use while dirtside. There's a chart for World Surfaces, a chart for Altitude, and a chart for Ocean Depth.

How far is it to orbit? 500 km, or Range 8.

Far oribit is 5,000 km, or Range 9.

You're in an air/raft as it flys slowly NOP (Nape of the Planet), when the loud mouthed Vargr falls out. How far did he fall? 50 m, or Range 2.

You need to toss a rope down a sinkhole, then climb down. How far is that? 50 m, or Range -2 (negative range means below the surface).

How far to the planet's core? Range -9, about 5,000 km of solid planet.

How far to a deep lake bottom? Range -5, or 1,000 m.



Chart 2 supports Space Combat.

Here's something cool and useful: You can use it to figure if a world is in the Jump Shadow of the system's sun! Quick and easy.

The default is a G class star. The 100 diam limit of the star is Orbit 3. So, that tells you, quickly, that any worlds in orbits 0-3 are masked by the system's star. It's difficult to jump straight to them! Worlds in orbit 4+ are worlds where you can jump to the world's 100 diam limit safely.

Let's say you're leaving a moon of a world in Orbit 3. You've got to travel from Range Band 10 to Range Band 11 in order to escape the star's shadow.

If you've got a spectral class A or F star, then the jump masking extends out further to orbit 5. If the star is class K or M, then the star's masking only reaches orbit 0.

Pretty neat stuff, huh?

 

[Supplement Four]

Charts 3 & 4 are neat. They focus on Gas Giants and Strangeworlds.

No where in any edition of Traveller (and I've by no means read them all--maybe GT or MGT has got something on this) have I seen a detailed procedure for skimming at a gas giant.

Sure, I've seen a simple roll here in some CT supplement, "Roll 2D for X, and if you fail, do damage to the ship..." And, I remember DGP's SOM had a quick task or two for GG fuel skimming.

But, this third chart is really neat in that a Ref can use it to play out an entire encounter as the ship dips into the atmosphere of a GG.

If you dive down the cloud surface of the GG 5 or 10 km, you're at Range 6 and you can pick up NH3 Ice. At that level, your ship will take 1D of Pressure damage. If you dive down deeper, you can scoop Clear H2, but the deeper you go, the more Pressure (the more damage to the ship).

This will certainly give your Engineer something to do.

And, skimming free fuel at the GG may not be the least expensive way to go if damage to your ship costs you more than the refined fuel you avoided at the starport.

Go very deep, and the turbulence will add damage as well as the pressure.

The are similar sub-charts for inferno atmospheres, stormworlds, ice giants, and radworlds.





Chart 5 is about Orbital Distances.

How far is it from one orbit to the next? Sub-charts showing drive limits for gravitic, jump, and maneuver drives.

Charts 6 & 7 cover more about orbits and habitable zones.

Chart 8 provides a set of Travel Time charts.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Sorry, don't have an answer, just had to :rofl: after I misread your subject as "T5 Range Bandits" and pictured poni-riding rustlers out on the prairies of some low TL world.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sorry, don't have an answer...

But, there is no question...I'm just reporting another aspect of T5 (and this one, I happen to like, a lot!)

 

[robject]

I do wish that range bands were unified with orbit numbers. But maybe that's just the neat-freak in me.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Yes.

I do wish that range bands were unified with orbit numbers. But maybe that's just the neat-freak in me.

Actually that would be cool.

And Supp4, I take back some of that troll comment in the Roll High thread. But just some. :devil:

Thanks for this post by the way. I have spent soooo much time in ACS and CharGen that I do miss some of the other stuff. I didn't spend a lot of time with the Range Bands, not a lot of combat (just a few a space combats, wherein we learned that in ACS missiles rule all). Damn these things are way useful, I like the bit about Jump Masking, been wanting to use that concept but the math and orbital mechanics kept stopping me. This makes it much simpler. Thank you!

Here's hoping you find other bits as useful and cool. Personally, I am a big fan of the Benchmarks chapter and the various "How Stuff Works" chapters.

 

[rancke]

I do wish that range bands were unified with orbit numbers. But maybe that's just the neat-freak in me.

Since I consider the fixed orbits from Book6 and its descendants to be an unnecessary (and indefensible) constraint on system creation, it wouldn't help me any, since my systems would have orbits based on the First In rules for greater ease in adjusting the temperature of lifebearing worlds (Also, you can have planets that actually orbit in the life zone of Class MV stars (Orbit 0 is outside the life zone with Class MV)).


Hans

 

[robject]

Since I consider the fixed orbits from Book6 and its descendants to be an unnecessary (and indefensible) constraint on system creation, it wouldn't help me any, [...]

Even Marc had to redefine orbit numbers to be range-like, which encompass a band of space rather than one fixed track, and they are related to range bands. But, they're not the same, and it seems that Marc has his reasons. And I shoved my oar in those waters, to no avail.

 

[Supplement Four]

I do have a question. Look at page 42, Table 3a, the Large Gas Giant Table. Why would a ship go deeper than Range Band 6.4?

You've got all you need within R=6: Water Ice, NH3 Ice, and Clear H2. Pressure damage to scoop the Clear H2 is comparatively light at this altitude, P-2.

So, why would you go deeper to R=7, facing more pressure damage and adding turbulence damage, to get that Clear H2?

Is it a typo on the chart? Or, is the chart reflecting the layered aspects of GG atmospheres, where, in all practicality, 2D damage from Pressure is all that a ship will face when scooping fuel?

If this is true, what would be a reason to dive deeper into the GG?





Can a ship fill the tanks by just diving to R=6.4? Does the ship take P-2 damage one time, for the entire scooping process? Or, are several intervals needed to fill tanks, resulting in several P-2 hits.

I would think that a single dive, however long it takes, is enough to scoop fuel, and the ship takes a total of 2D damage. For example, the ship dives to R=6.4, opens the scoops, fills the tank for an indetermined amount of time, then pulls away from the GG, with the ship taking 2D pressure damage for the entire process.

How do you read it?

 

[robject]

I do have a question. Look at page 42, Table 3a, the Large Gas Giant Table. Why would a ship go deeper than Range Band 6.4?

You've got all you need within R=6: Water Ice, NH3 Ice, and Clear H2. Pressure damage to scoop the Clear H2 is comparatively light at this altitude, P-2.

So, why would you go deeper to R=7, facing more pressure damage and adding turbulence damage, to get that Clear H2?

Is it a typo on the chart? Or, is the chart reflecting the layered aspects of GG atmospheres, where, in all practicality, 2D damage from Pressure is all that a ship will face when scooping fuel?

If this is true, what would be a reason to dive deeper into the GG?

Can a ship fill the tanks by just diving to R=6.4? Does the ship take P-2 damage one time, for the entire scooping process? Or, are several intervals needed to fill tanks, resulting in several P-2 hits.

I would think that a single dive, however long it takes, is enough to scoop fuel, and the ship takes a total of 2D damage. For example, the ship dives to R=6.4, opens the scoops, fills the tank for an indetermined amount of time, then pulls away from the GG, with the ship taking 2D pressure damage for the entire process.

How do you read it?

There's an errata item against the time component when applying pressure damage to ships... underwater, for example, but GG atmospheres count, too. Until I know for sure, I can handwave and say "one combat turn", but there are unknowns here.

I'd never want to dive very far into a GG, but as a referee I will use the table when the players' ship's M-drive gets crippled and starts sinking.

 

[robject]

Why would a ship go deeper than Range Band 6.4?

One more thought: SOTA.

Is pressure damage on page 42 in personal combat hits? Seems like it, but is that right?

And one question: how deep can one go into a GG with a Shimmercube (p.612)? Somewhere in the 7s, depending on the GG?

 

[esampson]

I do have a question. Look at page 42, Table 3a, the Large Gas Giant Table. Why would a ship go deeper than Range Band 6.4?

You've got all you need within R=6: Water Ice, NH3 Ice, and Clear H2. Pressure damage to scoop the Clear H2 is comparatively light at this altitude, P-2.

So, why would you go deeper to R=7, facing more pressure damage and adding turbulence damage, to get that Clear H2?

Is it a typo on the chart? Or, is the chart reflecting the layered aspects of GG atmospheres, where, in all practicality, 2D damage from Pressure is all that a ship will face when scooping fuel?

If this is true, what would be a reason to dive deeper into the GG?





Can a ship fill the tanks by just diving to R=6.4? Does the ship take P-2 damage one time, for the entire scooping process? Or, are several intervals needed to fill tanks, resulting in several P-2 hits.

I would think that a single dive, however long it takes, is enough to scoop fuel, and the ship takes a total of 2D damage. For example, the ship dives to R=6.4, opens the scoops, fills the tank for an indetermined amount of time, then pulls away from the GG, with the ship taking 2D pressure damage for the entire process.

How do you read it?

Realistically there would be no need for a ship to descend any further than a few millibars of pressure for refueling. When the pressure being exerted against the ship is enough to result in aerobraking you just open up those scoops. Hydrogen, being 1/2 the density of the next lightest element is going to be the main thing that gets scooped up at that altitude.

Alternately if your ship has lifters you could just hover (actually, approximately match wind conditions) and descend down to 1 atm of pressure. Open up your scoops and start pumping in hydrogen into the compressors.

Dropping down to the point where the atmospheric pressure becomes any kind of concern would realistically only occur in unusual circumstances (problems with the maneuver drive, ducking into the atmosphere to avoid/escape an enemy ship while refueling, etc.) and so would tend to occur mainly because they are plot elements which a Referee would have worked out for the occasion.

 

[MichaelSTee]

I do wish that range bands were unified with orbit numbers. But maybe that's just the neat-freak in me.

I second that. And I wish that, A) the orbit numbers were in a logical progression (instead of being tied to Sol system orbits), and B) that the range bands were in a logical progression, like each band being about 3 times the one before (3m, 10m, 30m, 100m, 300m, 1km, etc). I dislike how R5 is 2 times R4, then R6 is 5 times R5, and R7 is 10 times R6!

Oh well...

 

[robject]

I second that. And I wish that, A) the orbit numbers were in a logical progression (instead of being tied to Sol system orbits), and B) that the range bands were in a logical progression, like each band being about 3 times the one before (3m, 10m, 30m, 100m, 300m, 1km, etc). I dislike how R5 is 2 times R4, then R6 is 5 times R5, and R7 is 10 times R6!

I suspect the rather jittery progression of range bands has a reason behind it -- for example, the 'R' ranges are related to personal combat and vehicles, and have "human"(?) breaks that do not conform to a geometric progression.

 

[Supplement Four]

Is pressure damage on page 42 in personal combat hits? Seems like it, but is that right?

I haven't read anything on starship combat yet, so I just assumed that starship damage looked like personal combat damage.

I can't see how it would be personal combat damage as 2D of pressure damage wouldn't do any damage to the ship (and certainly scooping fuel is not an ideal time to go EVA).

 

[Supplement Four]

FYI, Skimming time addressed on page 365, T5.

 

[Supplement Four]

I do wish that range bands were unified with orbit numbers. But maybe that's just the neat-freak in me.

Page 365, T5: Any two locations (identified by orbit numbers and rough position within the system) can be converted to an S=Space Range Band, and then to travel time.

 

[Draconian]

Sorry, don't have an answer, just had to :rofl: after I misread your subject as "T5 Range Bandits" and pictured poni-riding rustlers out on the prairies of some low TL world.

Yeah, that sets ME off with memories of FIREFLY and people with Western accents. [FIREFLY, the show about a half-Chinese Alliance with no Chinese actors...heh, heh.] "Man, that sun sure is powerful warm! I reckon we gotta stop and "ammonia" these ponies before they plumb collapse!"

Humour is fun, isn't it? :file_21:

 

[robject]

I can't see how it would be personal combat damage as 2D of pressure damage wouldn't do any damage to the ship (and certainly scooping fuel is not an ideal time to go EVA).

Yes. I'll check the errata to make sure that is noted.

 

[rancke]

I second that. And I wish that, A) the orbit numbers were in a logical progression (instead of being tied to Sol system orbits), and B) that the range bands were in a logical progression, like each band being about 3 times the one before (3m, 10m, 30m, 100m, 300m, 1km, etc). I dislike how R5 is 2 times R4, then R6 is 5 times R5, and R7 is 10 times R6!

The 3, 10, 30, 100, 300, etc. progression is a good one.


Hans