T5 Question - Wound Severity?

[Supplement Four]

I read the damage system (just like the CT system) on page 215.

Then, I saw the Hit Locations on page 222-223. I'm guessing those Hit Locations are for color. The Ref can use them or ignore them, as he sees fit, during the game.

Then I see...on page 222...reference to Wound Severity.

For example, a B-Bullet Injury inflicts Total Hits/2 = Severity.

What does that mean?



3D damage. AV 7.

Damage rolled is 13, which means 6 points penetrate.

3 points (or is it 6 points, half of 13?) is the wound's severity.

What does that mean?

 

[Spartan159]

One thing I would use hit locations for is armor, I'm sorry but I'm not going to say that battledress loses all protection because of one penetration. I'd be willing to go with it loses protection in the penetration location however.

Yes, more to keep track of, then again if you use a combat sheet, easy enough to X the spot and hope you don't get hit in the same location again. all of a few seconds of record keeping.

My 0.02 Cr

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to say that battledress loses all protection because of one penetration. I'd be willing to go with it loses protection in the penetration location however.

We're thinking alike. See Post #92 in THIS THREAD.

 

[Spartan159]

We're thinking alike. See Post #92 in THIS THREAD.

:rofl: Was cross posting at the same time you were posting here

 

[Supplement Four]

I see that "Severity", on page 232, is the difficulty in repairing a vehicle. I'm guessing that Wound Severity that I ask about in the OP will determine the difficulty of using Medical skills to heal the character.

 

[Reban]

I read the damage system (just like the CT system) on page 215.

Then, I saw the Hit Locations on page 222-223. I'm guessing those Hit Locations are for color. The Ref can use them or ignore them, as he sees fit, during the game.

Then I see...on page 222...reference to Wound Severity.

For example, a B-Bullet Injury inflicts Total Hits/2 = Severity.

What does that mean?



3D damage. AV 7.

Damage rolled is 13, which means 6 points penetrate.

3 points (or is it 6 points, half of 13?) is the wound's severity.

What does that mean?

I think its 3 points of wound severity as at the top of p220 it says "Apply Injury Exceeding Armor to Target." So its based on what makes it past the armor.


On Hit Locations, as I understand it the way its presented is that when the combat round ends you assess just where the injuries you suffered during combat affected you.

So if you get hit by that Bullet and suffer 3 points of injury distributed to C1, C2 and C3 you feel around after combat find the wet spot with the blood and locate the hole, or mechanically you throw 2D and locate the Hit Location. There's an alternate method set out on p232 under Battle Damage.

To understand Injury better its essential to read about healing which is found under the Medic skill on p165. This is where you'll find Severity for wounds defined.

 

[RobM]

The personal combat system needs errata. The CT damage system is presented in T5 as an alternate method to applying damage. The way it is partially presented in the personal combat section and in the medic skill the wounding system is a matter of severity and location not necessarilly actual damage points applied to characteristics.

 

[Supplement Four]

The personal combat system needs errata. The CT damage system is presented in T5 as an alternate method to applying damage. The way it is partially presented in the personal combat section and in the medic skill the wounding system is a matter of severity and location not necessarilly actual damage points applied to characteristics.

Are you sure about that? Because that's not the way I read it.

Wound Location and Severity are used in Healing, but there's no other indication of character wounds. If you look on the page that describes the Penetrate phase of the combat round (page 220), you'll see in the chart that Bullet damage must defeat armor, and if it does, the remaining hits are applied to C1, C2, and C3.

How the hits are applied are described in the V0 Hit System on page 215. Note the last paragraph (that is different from CT) says that Serious Wounds (two stats at zero) can only be fully healed after seeing a doctor (Medic-3 or better).

If you turn to the Medic skill on page 165, you'll see that Hit Location and Severity are used in the tasks for Diagnosis and Treatment.

It looks like it all fits together the way it's supposed to, to me.

 

[RobM]

Are you sure about that? Because that's not the way I read it.

"Previous editions of Traveller have included a direct
Hit versus Characteristic wounding mechanism which is still
useful in some circumstances."

First sentance from the Hit System V0 pg 215 would indicate that it is an alternate system.

The table on pg 220 would support your stand although not all hits are applied to C1, C2 and C3.

Injury table on pg 222 and 223 determines the severity of the injury and the location of the injury.

Master Mods table 11 pg 183 looks like it may be the wound damage that is applied to a PC, which is indicated in v0.6 errata. Example a wound of severity 4 'Heavy' would cause 4D damage after penetration. Perhaps this is damage that is applied to characteristics. This would solve the percieved lack of lethality of weapons.

In doing a cursory comparison of damage done by various weapons in CT and weapon examples in T5, in order to use the V0 system exclusivly you would have to double the damage most weapons or subscribe to the 'dice of dice' damage explanation put forth in other threads. 'Dice of dice' would probably cause too much damage.

To answer your question though, no I am not sure. I would like to see an example of combat to include wounding, damage and death from Don or someone who does know for sure though.

 

[RobM]

If you turn to the Medic skill on page 165, you'll see that Hit Location and Severity are used in the tasks for Diagnosis and Treatment.

The thing is that nothing in the skill says what happens if a wound increases in severity due to failed treatment. Master mods table 11 gives the consequences I think.

 

[RobM]

How the hits are applied are described in the V0 Hit System on page 215. Note the last paragraph (that is different from CT) says that Serious Wounds (two stats at zero) can only be fully healed after seeing a doctor (Medic-3 or better).

Not so different from pg 36 of the Traveller Book

'Unconscious characters with two characteristics reduced
to zero are considered seriously wounded and recover
consciousness after three hours. Their characteristics
remain at the wounded level (or 1, whichever is higher).
Recovery is dependent on medical attention (a medical
facility and an individual with medical3 skill; recuperation
to full strength without medical attention is not possible).'

 

[pendragonman]

S4,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but wound severity is related to the medic skill check difficulty.

 

[Supplement Four]

"Previous editions of Traveller have included a direct
Hit versus Characteristic wounding mechanism which is still
useful in some circumstances."

I read that with the "in some circumstances" part to differentiate it from the easy NPC damage system.

Master Mods table 11 pg 183 looks like it may be the wound damage that is applied to a PC, which is indicated in v0.6 errata.

Instead, that looks to me to be descriptions of damage. For example, "Slight" damage is 1D damage applied to the character.

What I say here is backed up by the example on page 233. Note that the example character, Eneri, takes a Slight wound from the lava ash. This means that 1D hits was applied to Eneri.

Also look at the table on that same page--there you will see the same wound names in a chart that provides damage to characters.

In doing a cursory comparison of damage done by various weapons in CT and weapon examples in T5, in order to use the V0 system exclusivly you would have to double the damage most weapons or subscribe to the 'dice of dice' damage explanation put forth in other threads. 'Dice of dice' would probably cause too much damage.

Again, I disagree. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think I am.

I think that Marc is attempting to make the game a little less deadly lowering damage by a die, on average.

That's just me guessing, though.

 

[RobM]

I think that Marc is attempting to make the game a little less deadly lowering damage by a die, on average.

That's just me guessing, though.

This doesn't seem plausable. Especially considering that a pistol that does 1d6 damage has no chance of killing an individual or NPC, with either V0 or V1 rules as you describe, with one shot at point blank range even if they are unarmored, unless the PC is extreemly weak. As a matter of fact you would never have a chance of taking an NPC out of the fight using the V1 rule system using a pistol with 1D6 damage.
I would have to conclude that 1 you are partially correct however damage is measured in Dice of Dice damage using the V0 or V1 system or 2 the description you put forth regarding wounding and damage (BTW your other posts on personel combat are really good) is not correct and the wounds from table 11 are the source of damage, which are applied to the characteristics C1 - C5 as described in the table on page 220 and 225.
Regardless I would like to see an example of combat involving wounding or some clarification on the issue from someone who has Marc's ear.

 

[Supplement Four]

Regardless I would like to see an example of combat involving wounding or some clarification on the issue from someone who has Marc's ear.

I would, too.

 

[BytePro]

Seems like the only real way would be direct examples to/from Marc...

Suspect he is still wrapping up kickstarter, though (last target of June 1st didn't include resolving problems, just shipping, IIRC...).

 

[Licheking]

My thought was that you only use one of the 2 systems as presented either V.0 the classic rule or the new V.1 with wound severity. A pistol doing Bullet-1 would then roll 1d and divide the result by 2 to find the severity of the injury Easy (1D), Average? (2D) and the next one (4D) and then apply that to the stats in question. Remembering that the first injury in any combat has to be applied solely to one attribute, so a pistol now has a good chance of at least taking a person out of the fight with 1 shot.

I think the severity chart needs to be reworded for wounds, but that's something i will do when i get home. That's also why i can't remember the titles of the severity chart since I'm doing this from memory.

This also means that anything doing more than 12 points of damage is overpenetrating and if you like that sort of thing, you could be trying to find out where that excess damage is going.

Anything with 2 damage types also has an advantage, since if this is the first injury in the round you could apply the first lot of damage to 1 attribute but the secondary damage could then be applied as normal.

 

[Shonner]

My players don't live long enough in combat to worry about the condition of their armor.

 

[Supplement Four]

My thought was that you only use one of the 2 systems as presented either V.0 the classic rule or the new V.1 with wound severity.

Is there a page in the book where the term "V1" is printed?





I asked Rob via PM is the below is correct, and he said that I nailed it. Wound Severity and the V0 system work together in T5.





T5 Wounds and Healing



When a character takes damage, he applies it to his three physical stats exactly the way it was done with Classic Traveller. This is on page 215.

If you look on the page that describes the Penetrate phase of the combat round (page 220), you'll see in the chart that Bullet damage must defeat armor, and if it does, the remaining hits are applied to C1, C2, and C3.

How the hits are applied to those three stats is described in the V0 Hit System on page 215.

So, Minor Wounds (any damage less than two stats at zero) can be healed by medical attention (by seeing a character with Medic-1 or better skill), of course, but it's not necessary. Three days of rest will completely heal him. (From page 215.)

Two stats at zero indicates a Serious Wound, and note the last paragraph that says these types of wounds can only be fully healed after seeing a doctor (Medic-3 or better).

If a character wants to quickly heal Minor Wounds or fully heal Serious Wounds, we turn to the Medic skill on page 165. There, Hit Location and Injury Severity (both from page 220) are used in the tasks for Diagnosis and Treatment.

 

[Reban]

Is there a page in the book where the term "V1" is printed?

Yep at the start of GunMaker p241. it says:

USING WEAPONS

Weapons have Effects which inflict hits, wounds, injuries, or damage under the V1 or V2 hit systems.

The Hit System V1. The Basic Hit System (version 1) provides a simple hit mechanic for resolution of combat. V1 is intended for use with non-player characters (and especially hordes of NPCs) when speed of resolution is important.

The Hit System V2. V2 Damage inflicts different types of damage based on the specific weapon.

I think the problem here was the Personal Combat system and GunMaker were being written and revised in parallel and somewhere a V0 crept into the text. For V0 read V1 as in the above. V1 works without needing to know the Weapon effect, all that is required is the number of Damage Dice. V2 adds information about the Weapon effect and that leads to more detail on the wound type.